RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault...

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BamaD -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/16/2014 7:56:55 PM)
FR If the Israelis would just be reasonable and march into the sea everything would be fine.

DaddySatyr -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/16/2014 8:00:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD FR If the Israelis would just be reasonable and march into the sea everything would be fine. They don't have to march. The Arab states have sworn to drive them there. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

TheHeretic -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/16/2014 8:13:48 PM)
As far I'm concerned, the Palestinians can go to hell, and we can use the bodies of the lefties who support them to pave the road. Note to concerned parents in the Gaza area - don't let your kids get on the Hamas sponsored beach bus.

BamaD -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/16/2014 8:30:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD FR If the Israelis would just be reasonable and march into the sea everything would be fine. They don't have to march. The Arab states have sworn to drive them there. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me? True but if the Israelis were reasonable they wouldn't put them to the trouble.

MrRodgers -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 4:37:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 1948: Israel did not attack Palestine. The Arab states did. They divvied it up as part of their attack on Israel. That's how the West bank and Jerusalem (which was supposed to be under UN control) became part of Jordan and Gaza became part of Egypt. The Arab states then forced and kept Arab refugees in camps as a convenient propaganda tool. 1967: The Arab states massed to invade, Egypt alone had 100,000 troops along the border. Israel struck first and quickly routed the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. 1973: The Arab states attacked on Yom Kippur catching Israel by surprise. It did them no good. They were quickly defeated yet again. in between and since the Arabs have maintained a terror campaign against Israel. Now I'm not saying the Arabs don't have a grievance but maybe they should stop resorting to violence? Maybe try nonviolent resistance? Did you click on the map and read the whole history ? They and Israels friends...most certainly did. In May 1948, The Declaration of the Establishment of Israel stated: "On the day of the termination of the British mandate and on the strength of the United Nations General Assembly declare The State of Israel will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel. It will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion. It will guarantee freedom of religion [and] conscience and will be faithful to the Charter of the United Nations." The British then occupied Palestine, until 1948. That, again, was when the new State of Israel was established with approval of the United Nations, and more than a million Palestinians (according to their account) were displaced and made refugees. However, the government of Israel has violated U.N. Charter and Resolutions, ignored the vision of the prophets, and ignored social and political rights of inhabitants because of race and religion. There has been a long history of dislocation, discrimination, oppression and persecution against Palestinians which goes back all the way to 1917. It expanded and got worse in 1948, and it has continued ever since. So if the UN declared your homeland a new state of a whole new people and they all came in and started throwing you, your family and friends out...you wouldn't go to war ?

crazyml -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 4:58:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 and of course, the Jewish people. Or is it? Lets look back in history, shall we? Balfour Declaration of 1917 basically agreed to set aside 10% of the region for a Jewish homeland. No it didn't. Read it

DrProgressive -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 5:17:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD FR If the Israelis would just be reasonable and march into the sea everything would be fine. They don't have to march. The Arab states have sworn to drive them there. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me? I find it odd that one quote uttered by an Arab leader, decades ago, is still rehashed and recycled, while numerous similarly hateful comments said by Israeli leaders go without note. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." - Yisrael Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum." "We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. I am not supporting one side over the other, as I previously stated, both sides have made similarly hateful, violent statements. Although, given the fierce "us versus them" mentality that this issue tends to garner, I am sure that some people will accuse me of doing otherwise, so let me be blunt and say, Hamas is no bueno. But neither is Israeli aggression... Ah darn, I can't be blunt.

crazyml -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 5:22:49 AM)
Who's fault is all this mess?. well it's the British and Americans largely.

Zonie63 -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 5:51:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 and of course, the Jewish people. Or is it? Lets look back in history, shall we? Balfour Declaration of 1917 basically agreed to set aside 10% of the region for a Jewish homeland. Now of course, the Arabs were dismayed because they felt that since they rebelled against the Ottoman Empire to help the British in WW1, they should rule the entire region, Jews be damned. For 30 years following the Balfour Declaration the Arab side said no to every offer of compromise on the British Mandate for Palestine. It continued saying no despite Britain setting aside about 80% of the Mandate for the Emirate of Transjordan (1922) and the Peel Commission recommending a two-state solution for the remaining 20% (1937). In other words, the Middle East conflict is about 10% of mandatory Palestine. That’s what the Arabs deny the Jews. They’ve had 90% all along.source At midnight, May 14, 1948, the British mandate over the region expired, the next day the State of Israel was declared. The surrounding Arab states declared war five hours later. Those Arab countries made it clear they would destroy Israel and its citizens. This thought has been repeated by various Arab leaders since 1948. Yup, since it was formed in 1948, Israeli forces have been going out of their way to kill Palestinians and Arabs every chance they got. And they were sneaky about it, they let terrorists and Arab countries attack and kill innocent civilians just so they would have an excuse to kill more non Jews. Now that is a conspiracy, letting your own people get killed for 66 years just so you have a reason to kill the people that are killing your people. The main problem was not the idea of a homeland for Jewish people, but the location that they picked. I suppose if there's anyone to "blame" for the situation, it would be the Romans for kicking the Jews out of that territory in the first place. They also concocted some bizarre variation on the Jewish religion involving a Jewish "messiah" who was supposedly the "Son of God." This also severely complicated matters, since the territory in question would figure prominently in the perceptions of what would become the majority religion in Europe. It was no longer any ordinary land, as it would eventually be known as the "Holy Land." Such irrational beliefs are what brought us to where we are now. If it was simply a matter of a land dispute or displaced refugees looking for a place to live, then it would have been far different. It's the fact that so many people want this land in this "holy" place that all the fighting is about. The Jews in the Diaspora settled wherever they could. After 2000 years of intermarrying and integrating into the cultures of multiple nations, they were clearly no longer the same people who were forced out of Judea by the Romans. It could be argued that they were no longer "indigenous" to the territory in question, and this would call into question their right to return to a territory that they were not indigenous to and had no real connection to anymore - other than whatever existed in their imaginations about the supernatural. Still, the need for some haven or homeland where Jewish people could go to escape persecution was very real, and this came to a head during World War II and the Holocaust. Jews who were desperate to escape the Nazis found closed doors and closed borders wherever they tried to go - even America turned these people away. Even those who went to Palestine found it to be a treacherous journey - and also had to get around a British blockade. After the war, the victorious Allied powers were in control of vast sections of the world landmasses, so they had quite a number of options available if they wanted to carve out a piece of land to accommodate the need for an independent Jewish homeland. They could have carved out a portion of Germany, which would have been the most just solution under the circumstances. It was only due to religious irrationality that they believed that they had to have that territory in the Middle East and only that territory - nothing else was acceptable. Even Madagascar might have been a better option, as it has far more resources and (being an island) it would have been strategically safer. Also, there were no Arabs and relatively few Muslims on that island. For whatever reason, instead of thinking outside the box and considering every possible alternative, they chose to jump into the frying pan. Dumb mistake.

DomKen -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 6:15:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 1948: Israel did not attack Palestine. The Arab states did. They divvied it up as part of their attack on Israel. That's how the West bank and Jerusalem (which was supposed to be under UN control) became part of Jordan and Gaza became part of Egypt. The Arab states then forced and kept Arab refugees in camps as a convenient propaganda tool. 1967: The Arab states massed to invade, Egypt alone had 100,000 troops along the border. Israel struck first and quickly routed the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. 1973: The Arab states attacked on Yom Kippur catching Israel by surprise. It did them no good. They were quickly defeated yet again. in between and since the Arabs have maintained a terror campaign against Israel. Now I'm not saying the Arabs don't have a grievance but maybe they should stop resorting to violence? Maybe try nonviolent resistance? Did you click on the map and read the whole history ? They and Israels friends...most certainly did. In May 1948, The Declaration of the Establishment of Israel stated: "On the day of the termination of the British mandate and on the strength of the United Nations General Assembly declare The State of Israel will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel. It will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion. It will guarantee freedom of religion [and] conscience and will be faithful to the Charter of the United Nations." The British then occupied Palestine, until 1948. That, again, was when the new State of Israel was established with approval of the United Nations, and more than a million Palestinians (according to their account) were displaced and made refugees. However, the government of Israel has violated U.N. Charter and Resolutions, ignored the vision of the prophets, and ignored social and political rights of inhabitants because of race and religion. There has been a long history of dislocation, discrimination, oppression and persecution against Palestinians which goes back all the way to 1917. It expanded and got worse in 1948, and it has continued ever since. So if the UN declared your homeland a new state of a whole new people and they all came in and started throwing you, your family and friends out...you wouldn't go to war ? The Arabs were granted a nation right alongside the Jews and it actually included the better land with access to the Jordan river and the Med and Red seas. The Jews were stuck with the Negev and Judea. But the neighboring Arab states invaded and tried to take all of Israel for the Arabs and they lost. 3 separate times. Israel has the same right as any nation to defend itself and the Palestinians do not have the right to terrorize Israel just because of a perceived grievance they mostly brought on themselves.

MrRodgers -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 9:41:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 1948: Israel did not attack Palestine. The Arab states did. They divvied it up as part of their attack on Israel. That's how the West bank and Jerusalem (which was supposed to be under UN control) became part of Jordan and Gaza became part of Egypt. The Arab states then forced and kept Arab refugees in camps as a convenient propaganda tool. 1967: The Arab states massed to invade, Egypt alone had 100,000 troops along the border. Israel struck first and quickly routed the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. 1973: The Arab states attacked on Yom Kippur catching Israel by surprise. It did them no good. They were quickly defeated yet again. in between and since the Arabs have maintained a terror campaign against Israel. Now I'm not saying the Arabs don't have a grievance but maybe they should stop resorting to violence? Maybe try nonviolent resistance? Did you click on the map and read the whole history ? They and Israels friends...most certainly did. In May 1948, The Declaration of the Establishment of Israel stated: "On the day of the termination of the British mandate and on the strength of the United Nations General Assembly declare The State of Israel will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel. It will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion. It will guarantee freedom of religion [and] conscience and will be faithful to the Charter of the United Nations." The British then occupied Palestine, until 1948. That, again, was when the new State of Israel was established with approval of the United Nations, and more than a million Palestinians (according to their account) were displaced and made refugees. However, the government of Israel has violated U.N. Charter and Resolutions, ignored the vision of the prophets, and ignored social and political rights of inhabitants because of race and religion. There has been a long history of dislocation, discrimination, oppression and persecution against Palestinians which goes back all the way to 1917. It expanded and got worse in 1948, and it has continued ever since. So if the UN declared your homeland a new state of a whole new people and they all came in and started throwing you, your family and friends out...you wouldn't go to war ? The Arabs were granted a nation right alongside the Jews and it actually included the better land with access to the Jordan river and the Med and Red seas. The Jews were stuck with the Negev and Judea. But the neighboring Arab states invaded and tried to take all of Israel for the Arabs and they lost. 3 separate times. Israel has the same right as any nation to defend itself and the Palestinians do not have the right to terrorize Israel just because of a perceived grievance they mostly brought on themselves. You would be correct but how is it that the world is to recognize Israel only by virtue of UN resolution but then [she] is no longer to be sanctioned for her 1/2 a century for violating resolutions. Plus how is it the world and the Arabs are supposed to accept an absolutely arbitrary decision to take any land form one people and give it to another ? Furthermore, the beginning of this all started with the British betrayal after they teamed up with the Palestinians to kick out the Ottomans only to then tell them...now this is British Palestine and you'll live under our thumb. Then of all things...just walk away when in 1948 and the going gets tough instead of standing their ground to preserve Palestine. Seems all of the western world supported the UN taking that land and have told the Palestinians to go to hell. Then Israel takes almost all the rest the land (90%) in Palestine from the Palestinians. How about if the UN decided to give Texas, New Mex., Ariz and California back to Mexico ? You and everybody who defends Israel would then have to side with the Mexicans.

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 9:47:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 1948: Israel did not attack Palestine. The Arab states did. They divvied it up as part of their attack on Israel. That's how the West bank and Jerusalem (which was supposed to be under UN control) became part of Jordan and Gaza became part of Egypt. The Arab states then forced and kept Arab refugees in camps as a convenient propaganda tool. 1967: The Arab states massed to invade, Egypt alone had 100,000 troops along the border. Israel struck first and quickly routed the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. 1973: The Arab states attacked on Yom Kippur catching Israel by surprise. It did them no good. They were quickly defeated yet again. in between and since the Arabs have maintained a terror campaign against Israel. Now I'm not saying the Arabs don't have a grievance but maybe they should stop resorting to violence? Maybe try nonviolent resistance? Did you click on the map and read the whole history ? They and Israels friends...most certainly did. In May 1948, The Declaration of the Establishment of Israel stated: "On the day of the termination of the British mandate and on the strength of the United Nations General Assembly declare The State of Israel will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel. It will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion. It will guarantee freedom of religion [and] conscience and will be faithful to the Charter of the United Nations." The British then occupied Palestine, until 1948. That, again, was when the new State of Israel was established with approval of the United Nations, and more than a million Palestinians (according to their account) were displaced and made refugees. However, the government of Israel has violated U.N. Charter and Resolutions, ignored the vision of the prophets, and ignored social and political rights of inhabitants because of race and religion. There has been a long history of dislocation, discrimination, oppression and persecution against Palestinians which goes back all the way to 1917. It expanded and got worse in 1948, and it has continued ever since. So if the UN declared your homeland a new state of a whole new people and they all came in and started throwing you, your family and friends out...you wouldn't go to war ? Do you mean the maps of the Palestinian Authority and their educational pedagogies that leave Israel's existence completely out? http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=466

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 9:52:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 1948: Israel did not attack Palestine. The Arab states did. They divvied it up as part of their attack on Israel. That's how the West bank and Jerusalem (which was supposed to be under UN control) became part of Jordan and Gaza became part of Egypt. The Arab states then forced and kept Arab refugees in camps as a convenient propaganda tool. 1967: The Arab states massed to invade, Egypt alone had 100,000 troops along the border. Israel struck first and quickly routed the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. 1973: The Arab states attacked on Yom Kippur catching Israel by surprise. It did them no good. They were quickly defeated yet again. in between and since the Arabs have maintained a terror campaign against Israel. Now I'm not saying the Arabs don't have a grievance but maybe they should stop resorting to violence? Maybe try nonviolent resistance? Did you click on the map and read the whole history ? They and Israels friends...most certainly did. In May 1948, The Declaration of the Establishment of Israel stated: "On the day of the termination of the British mandate and on the strength of the United Nations General Assembly declare The State of Israel will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel. It will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion. It will guarantee freedom of religion [and] conscience and will be faithful to the Charter of the United Nations." The British then occupied Palestine, until 1948. That, again, was when the new State of Israel was established with approval of the United Nations, and more than a million Palestinians (according to their account) were displaced and made refugees. However, the government of Israel has violated U.N. Charter and Resolutions, ignored the vision of the prophets, and ignored social and political rights of inhabitants because of race and religion. There has been a long history of dislocation, discrimination, oppression and persecution against Palestinians which goes back all the way to 1917. It expanded and got worse in 1948, and it has continued ever since. So if the UN declared your homeland a new state of a whole new people and they all came in and started throwing you, your family and friends out...you wouldn't go to war ? The Arabs were granted a nation right alongside the Jews and it actually included the better land with access to the Jordan river and the Med and Red seas. The Jews were stuck with the Negev and Judea. But the neighboring Arab states invaded and tried to take all of Israel for the Arabs and they lost. 3 separate times. Israel has the same right as any nation to defend itself and the Palestinians do not have the right to terrorize Israel just because of a perceived grievance they mostly brought on themselves. Further to the Palestinians's terrorism, Hamas, Hizbollah and generally the PA, especially under Arafat, but not exclusively so and continuing into today not only specifically target Israeli civilians but use their own civilians as human shields. The Israelis, in contrast, drop leaflets warning civilian to evacuate, treat wounded Arabs at Israeli hospitals, and supply the electricity to Gaza (which they still haven't cut off). The PA and its allies are barbaric to Israelis and to their own citizens, while the Israelis defend themselves as best is possible under impossible conditions.

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 9:55:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrProgressive quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD FR If the Israelis would just be reasonable and march into the sea everything would be fine. They don't have to march. The Arab states have sworn to drive them there. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me? I find it odd that one quote uttered by an Arab leader, decades ago, is still rehashed and recycled, while numerous similarly hateful comments said by Israeli leaders go without note. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." - Yisrael Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum." "We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. I am not supporting one side over the other, as I previously stated, both sides have made similarly hateful, violent statements. Although, given the fierce "us versus them" mentality that this issue tends to garner, I am sure that some people will accuse me of doing otherwise, so let me be blunt and say, Hamas is no bueno. But neither is Israeli aggression... Ah darn, I can't be blunt. One quote? Perhaps you should start reading the translations of speeches that Arabs give in Arabic, not the taqqiya-inspired speeches they give in English. Hate, often genocidal, is the order of the day. Yes, Ben-Gurion said that. Have you read what Shimon Peres says? How about even the more conservative Netanyahu?Contrast what Israelis today say with the vitriol and hate coming from the Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular if you truly desire an understanding of what it is like to live there.

BamaD -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 10:43:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Who's fault is all this mess?. well it's the British and Americans largely. Yes every problem in the world can be laid squarely at the feet of the Americans and their lapdogs, the British (for the dense sarcasm font off)

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 10:46:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Who's fault is all this mess?. well it's the British and Americans largely. Yes every problem in the world can be laid squarely at the feet of the Americans and their lapdogs, the British (for the dense sarcasm font off) You left out racism.

BamaD -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 11:11:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Who's fault is all this mess?. well it's the British and Americans largely. Yes every problem in the world can be laid squarely at the feet of the Americans and their lapdogs, the British (for the dense sarcasm font off) You left out racism. Yes, a purely American invention.

DomKen -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 11:32:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers You would be correct but how is it that the world is to recognize Israel only by virtue of UN resolution but then [she] is no longer to be sanctioned for her 1/2 a century for violating resolutions. Plus how is it the world and the Arabs are supposed to accept an absolutely arbitrary decision to take any land form one people and give it to another ? Furthermore, the beginning of this all started with the British betrayal after they teamed up with the Palestinians to kick out the Ottomans only to then tell them...now this is British Palestine and you'll live under our thumb. Then of all things...just walk away when in 1948 and the going gets tough instead of standing their ground to preserve Palestine. Seems all of the western world supported the UN taking that land and have told the Palestinians to go to hell. Then Israel takes almost all the rest the land (90%) in Palestine from the Palestinians. How about if the UN decided to give Texas, New Mex., Ariz and California back to Mexico ? You and everybody who defends Israel would then have to side with the Mexicans. You're under so many false assumptions about the history of the region it is simply impossible to correct them all in a single post. I'll try and get you on the path by pointing you to one fact, before Zionists starting moving into the area there were actually very few people living in the area, Jaffa (the Arab port community near Tel Aviv) which was one of the largest towns only supported maybe 20k people. There just wasn't enough fresh water for any more. It was the Zionists from Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that financed the digging of wells that allowed the expansion of the population.

PeonForHer -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 1:40:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Who's fault is all this mess?. well it's the British and Americans largely. Yes every problem in the world can be laid squarely at the feet of the Americans and their lapdogs, the British (for the dense sarcasm font off) The Brits and Americans did indeed play a huge historical part in this, Bama. There isn't any way around that. The biggest part played, no doubt, was that of Hitler and the Nazi regime and their Holocaust ... but Brit and American politicians of the day ballsed up back then.

mnottertail -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (7/17/2014 2:18:05 PM)
the UK and US didn't really start out on their ventures in Imperialism till rather late in the game, all told. I mean, even today if the Spanish and French were to go at it over Haiti and the Dominican Republic and Haiti (admittedly, that was Napoleons time the French were waltzing thru and so into the Imperialism of the UK) But the world stage was larger when either of us entered into it will both feet and big. So, we all knew these areas, and when the big war came they were ours as it were, and we also had the luck of the winning side and like benevolent lords we dispensed their food, their land and their justice, and created the seeds of their destruction thru our machinations. Cuz they didnt turn out to have much love for our benevolent rapine and dictatorships. They still wanted to be their own people these bleedin sammies.

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