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"Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 2:02:59 PM   
kkaliforniaa


Posts: 263
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Well that was unfortunate.. Something happened and the entire thread was removed.. A new article dealing with a similar subject came out today, and I would like people's opinions on it

quote:

Columbia student vows to carry mattress until her alleged rapist is expelled
A Columbia University student is turning her senior thesis into a protest against the school's sexual assault policies and her alleged rapist.

Emma Sulkowicz, a visual art major, says she is carrying a twin-size dorm-room mattress until her alleged attacker, a fellow Columbia student, is expelled. Sulkowicz is calling the endeavor, which she says is a sort of performance art piece, “Mattress Performance: Carry That Weight.”

“The piece could potentially take a day or go on till I graduate," Sulkowicz, a senior, told the Columbia Spectator.

The 21-year-old says she was raped in her dorm room on the first day of her sophomore year but did not report the alleged attack until she met two other women who said they were also assaulted by the same man. All three reported their cases to the university, and all three say their allegations were dismissed.

Sulkowicz filed a police report with the NYPD in May.

“For me, I was raped in my own dorm bed, and since then that’s basically become fraught for me, and I feel like I’ve carried the weight of what happened there with me ever since,” Sulkowicz said. "The mattress is just the right size for me to be able to carry it and continue with my day, but also heavy enough that I have to continually struggle with it.”

She says she intends to carry the mattress by herself but won't turn down offers to help.

In April, Sulkowicz and 22 other students filed a federal Title IX complaint claiming that the university mishandled sexual assault cases. In May, the names of four alleged perpetrators, including Sulkowicz's, were written on a school bathroom wall and posted on fliers that were distributed across Columbia's New York City campus. (Sulkowicz and other alleged victims denied that they were behind the postings.)

In the same month, Sulkowicz wrote an essay for Time magazine titled "My Rapist Is Still on Campus" about her ordeal as an alleged victim:

quote:

Every day, I am afraid to leave my room. Even seeing people who look remotely like my rapist scares me. Last semester I was working in the dark room in the photography department. Though my rapist wasn’t in my class, he asked permission from his teacher to come and work in the dark room during my class time. I started crying and hyperventilating. As long as he’s on campus with me, he can continue to harass me.

I’ve lost friends because some people just don’t understand what it means to be raped. One friend asked me if I thought that my rapist would be expelled from school. I said, “I really hope so.” And he said, “Poor guy,” because I think many men see rape as kinky sex that went wrong. They say girls are confusing and it’s hard to tell when you’re supposed to stop.

Sulkowicz realizes the spectacle of her mattress performance may alienate her even more.

“I’m not as nervous about carrying a mattress around as I am with the attention it’s gotten,” she told the Spectator. “Last night, when I was shaking in bed and just thinking about how scary today was going to be, I was thinking about how I’m not really going to have anonymity anymore, which is a really strange thing for me.”


What I'm wondering is: should there be a limited time that people can report a rape? I found a chart at victimsofcrime.org, that lists the amount of time people have to report this, and it looks like, in some states, people have up to 30 years. Other states have 15 years.. .. It's one thing if the person was not of consenting age at the time, but with the girl from the article, she was a sophmore when it happened, and is now a senior. AND,

quote:

but did not report the alleged attack until she met two other women who said they were also assaulted by the same man

I'm sorry, but why did it take meeting TWO other women who were also assaulted by the same man, for her to come forward? My theory has always been, report it right away so that it can't happen to other people!! And, while I don't know police procedure, aren't victims supposed to pick the alleged criminal from a line up SEPARATELY, so to prevent any favoritism over one person.. .. I understand that going through this is tough, some people can handle it better than others, thus it takes longer to report, in some cases, but could something be done to help those people, so they aren't as scared to go to the police [even if it is in a different town, since police officers aren't always saints]
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 2:37:27 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I never reported.

What made me not do it?
Fear. I still haven't told my parents. I didn't tell anyone it even happened for two years. And meanwhile I lived in the same dorm as him and he was cornering me and threatening me whenever he had the chance to make sure I never went to the cops. I came from a small town of about 1000 people. I graduated with 60 people in my high school class. I went to school in Philly. I was sort of dating the guy who raped me. He was african american.
As far as I was concerned my whole family was going to intervene and try to pull me out of school. I KNOW several of my "friends" (and some who I've told have said this to me)- think that thats "just what I get for hanging out with a black guy" (clearly those folks aren't friends anymore...). I don't even have the strength to tell my parents now 8 years later. How am I going to tell strangers who are going to question whether it really happened to me immediately after? How would I make it through a TRIAL?

With all the victim blaming going around on all these topics- I can honestly say- reporting it would've absolutely gotten ME shit. As if the shit I go through surrounding this isn't enough on a daily basis, I could lose all my friends too, or better yet, members of my family.

I mean first everyone on these threads thinks false accusations are rampant and all that ever happens, and now you're pissed they don't report it?
Which would you prefer?

There is a statue of limitations in most states. Also- just like a car accident, if you wait 30 years- most evidence is gone and you're not going to get an arrest. There is the burden of proof after all and in general eye witness testimony isn't the best method to bring to court.

It took meeting two other women to give her the chance to trust in numbers.
I promise you- the amount of bullshit they put someone through is outrageous- having someone else who went through the same ordeal must make it easier.

Stop saying what you would do. Or what you think a victim should do.
Because you can't possibly know how you'd react.



(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
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RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 2:45:26 PM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa

What I'm wondering is: should there be a limited time that people can report a rape? I found a chart at victimsofcrime.org, that lists the amount of time people have to report this, and it looks like, in some states, people have up to 30 years. Other states have 15 years.. .. It's one thing if the person was not of consenting age at the time, but with the girl from the article, she was a sophmore when it happened, and is now a senior. AND,

quote:

but did not report the alleged attack until she met two other women who said they were also assaulted by the same man

I'm sorry, but why did it take meeting TWO other women who were also assaulted by the same man, for her to come forward? My theory has always been, report it right away so that it can't happen to other people!! And, while I don't know police procedure, aren't victims supposed to pick the alleged criminal from a line up SEPARATELY, so to prevent any favoritism over one person.. .. I understand that going through this is tough, some people can handle it better than others, thus it takes longer to report, in some cases, but could something be done to help those people, so they aren't as scared to go to the police [even if it is in a different town, since police officers aren't always saints]



Statute of limitations is different state to state, in PA it's 12 years. If the victim was a minor when it happened then it can be reported up to 12 years after she/he turns 18.

I do agree it should be reported but so many rapes don't get reported for various reasons and I can fully understand people who don't report it. Why the woman you speak of didn't come forward until 2 others came forward, maybe knowing they came forward is what gave her the courage to come forward.

I did not report the two who raped me for a few reasons, fear for my life if I reported it, I knew them, they knew me, shame, humiliation, embarrassment and knowing if it went to trial that I would have to give every gory detail of those 4 hours of hell they put me through and becoming a victim all over again by the defense attorneys. Long before my rape I witnessed a rape trial when I was in school and the defense attorneys tore the girl apart piece by piece, she was put through hell on the stand. After my rape, that was one of the things that popped into my head, remembering what that girl had to go through in the court room and I couldn't put myself through it. At that time, I had to do what was best for me and that was not to report it but get the psychological help I needed and the emotional support I needed from my former Dom/husband so I could heal from it.


_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.


(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
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RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 2:57:30 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline 		Ugh...I really wanted to root for this gal until she made this statement-- “Last night, when I was shaking in bed and just thinking about how scary today was going to be, I was thinking about how I’m not really going to have anonymity anymore, which is a really strange thing for me.”

To me, it's a question of drama. She's a visual arts major. She's willing to carry a mattress for however long it takes. She's not scared about ANY of the drama involved. In fact, this will be her senior thesis...guaranteed.

But, more to the point...why go through the school and not the NYPD? Especially after they were dismissed by the university?

I may be a bit out of the loop when it comes to this, as I'm coming up on my 20th reunion from college...but, back in my day, when things were more serious than locking yourself out of your dorm room on a Saturday night, or your neighbors were playing their music too loud...the cops were called. And, they came. In fact, I cannot imagine NOT calling the local cops if a rape had happened...

And, to villify this person when you're not willing to go through the legal process? Fine, have at it...get an A for your senior thesis...but fact of the matter is, you're stirring up shit for the sake of stirring up shit. One call to the local NYPD precinct, and they will be on this. Columbia, or any other institution of higher learning, can't prevent local law enforcement from investigating a reported crime. I mean...unless you want to file your civil suit and get some bucks out of this as well.

To the OP...in terms of statute of limitations...it's determined on the basis of "gravity of the crime". I'm sure you've heard that there's no SOL on murder....as far as rape goes...should it be less than what it is for personal injury in a lot of states? Where I live, the SOL on personal injury (auto accidents, and such) is three years.

Edited to add:

Apologies...I missed the point where she went to the NYPD in May. So, why do that if you are wanting to make a spectacle of it all? Why not let the legal system play itself out, if you don't want to bring attention to yourself.

< Message edited by littleladybug -- 9/3/2014 3:05:29 PM >

(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
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RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 3:01:05 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Ladies above me, I you. Most people won't understand why, but I understand that as anonymous as the web may seem, to each of you it felt as if the eyes of the world are staring at you through your screen. I appreciate you both making the quantum leap of courage to post what you have.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to InHisHeart)
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RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 3:20:54 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I'd also like to add...
I know my rapist. I know his WHOLE story. I UNDERSTAND in some warped way why he might be "predisposed" to becoming a rapist.

I was dating this man. A huge part of me really liked him before he ruined my life.
After he raped me, I had the power to take him to court and get him arrested.

Having the power to ruin someone's life is TERRIFYING. I think it takes immense courage to use that power- courage that I didn't have. Do I regret not reporting it? Sure. I still could under PA law- but I know at this point I don't want to. A trial will retraumatize me, and at this point there is no evidence to find- and its just his word against mine.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
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RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 5:50:25 PM   
kkaliforniaa


Posts: 263
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		**Okay [it was either state this now, or include it many times later, sorry], I am using "you" as a general term, not meant to target any specific poster!!

How is a person going to tell strangers? Well if they have sought counseling for being raped, that is how they tell strangers. Simply going to the police and filing a report doesn't mean that it will go to trial, and even if it does, what does it matter what other people think? You were the victim!.. .. Kids are scolded for eating cookies before dinner, for hitting other kids on the playground, but if someone rapes you, it's okay for them to get away with it? Can you say hypocrisy.. By not even going to the police, you are saying that what this person [male or female] did was okay, and that they can do it to other people!! For some people, it takes being locked behind bars to understand that what they did was wrong.. .. Would you want your son or daughter to go through this? Wouldn't you hope that if the rapist did this to others, that someone else spoke up? Why are others expected to speak up, but not you?

As for victim blaming, I don't remember any of that going around. The way I have seen it, the conversation has been about being responsible for ones actions, not getting so drunk that they can't even remember what day of the week it is, etc. Knowing the difference between a mistake and an actual crime.. .. Yes, there was talk about making false accusations a criminal offense, but it can be determined if something is fictitious, or if there just isn't enough proof to convict someone, there is a difference!

Or, and just saying here, devil's advocate and all that, the girl from the article found out that this guy was a player, and cheated on, or used, these other girls as well, making this more of a jilted lover, rather than a victim. Maybe, yes, it took courage knowing others were raped by the SAME person, but I think that makes it a little more suspicious. I don't think she was the first, or will be the last person, to go through this [with any rapist]. If it was really about courage, then maybe going to group therapy would have helped.. .. SINCE I have not spoken with this girl, I do not know what happened, other than what has been reported [in this one article]. While it may SEEM like I think she made this all up, I am merely looking at this from both perspectives!!

Hmm.. You do have a point about fear for your life, but, what really prevents criminals from not going through with the threats? Once again, by going to the police, it prevents criminals from doing this to other people, and if they do attack you, there is already a record on file.. .. BUT, "At that time, I had to do what was best for me and that was not to report it but get the psychological help I needed and the emotional support I needed", and that is always important too!

For those who are afraid that they will be further victimized by going to trial:
quote:

If you think you might want to pursue prosecution, but haven't decided for sure, we recommend that you make the police report right away, while the evidence is still present and your memory is still detailed. The district attorney will decide whether or not to pursue prosecution, however it is unusual for cases to proceed without the cooperation of the victim. And if prosecution is pursued, the chance of success will be much higher if you reported, and had evidence collected, immediately after the attack.
https://rainn.org/get-information/legal-information/reporting-rape

quote:

I'm afraid that my actions will be scrutinized and I'll have to testify about intimate details of my personal life.
Many successful prosecutions end in a plea agreement, without trial, which means that the victim will not have to testify. However if your case does go to trial, you will generally have to testify. Although there are no guarantees, prosecutors have legal tools they can use to protect you in court. One tool is called a rape shield law, which limits what the defense can ask you about your prior sexual history. The prosecutor can also file legal motions to try to protect you from having to disclose personal information

If you are worried about having to testify about intimate matters such as your own sexual history, let the police or prosecutor know about your concerns. They can explain the laws in your state and help you understand what might happen if you do go to trial.
https://rainn.org/get-information/legal-information/reporting-rape


Also, the girl from today's article, she waited nearly 2 years to go to the NYPD, and is now bringing the mattress all around campus! Can you say, "contaminating evidence". This is why I was interested in a limited time to report crimes. Although now that someone mentioned it, there are no statute of limitations on murder, but it can be tricky to prove years later. But, what if this girl had been a senior and had waited 2 years to report this. She wouldn't be living in the college dorms anymore, I'd imagine it would be trickier collecting evidence now that someone new is living in that room..

I agree with you, ladybug. Ordinarily, if a crime is committed, you call the local police. I don't see how it would be any different, living on a college campus. If someone is lying face down in the quad, with a knife in their back [dead], is campus security the first people that are called. I'd call 911 first *shrug*.. .. Hmm. I never thought about personal injury. But I guess with injuries, those are easier to prove because of x-rays and such.

As for ruining someone else's life. First, they ruined yours, second, who is to say that it is ruining their life. Clearly something was wrong if they are going to commit rape [among other things, like making threats]. So instead of looking at it like you are ruining their life, look at it like you are finding a way for them to get help that they wouldn't have gotten on their own.

I also mentioned, "could something be done to help people, so they aren't as scared to go to the police [even if it is in a different town, since police officers aren't always saints]", any suggestions?

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 6:35:01 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		***Trigger warning****

So if a girl gets so drunk she can't remember what day of the week it is, its an invitation to be RAPED? How does the rapist get out of that so easily? < That is victim blaming. Not personal responsibility.

I'm not justifying my lack of reporting to you. You can think I'm as stupid as you want, YOU didn't live it. YOU don't have PTSD or Rape trauma syndrome.

I am seeking counseling. It took me three to find one that I was comfortable telling. Its not that easy.

And it matters what people think, so much more than you're assuming. Do police not have biases? Do police not victim blame? Do they not see false accusations and then become clouded by their own personal judgement? Lets say it goes to trial. It comes out that you "enjoy hip hop and going out on a Friday!" suddenly that gets turned into "asking for it". OR GOSH, perhaps you even enjoy BDSM- I mean aren't you then FOR SURE asking for it?
It is scary as hell.

I barely even remember what I did right after it happened. I have no idea how I walked back to my dorm room. I have no recollection of it at all. Hell, there's whole chunks of the event I remember in a way that is different from a normal memory. Trauma warps your mind. I disassociated HARDCORE. I couldn't even remember if HE CAME IN ME. Do you know what that feels like? To know something AWFUL happened, but you only remember it like a fuzzy choppy recording? I was stone cold sober, but that day and the next three in my memory feel like I was swimming through water. I remember cutting class to go to Planned Parenthood, but I barely remember the appointment because all my brain could think was "WHAT IF I HAVE AIDS?", and now everytime I go to the doctor, its all I can think. The only other thoughts I had revolved mostly around committing suicide. There, for me, wasn't a rational thought in my head.

I immediately found a guy I liked and trusted to "take my virginity" (even if I had just lost it to my rapist). I found a whole string of men after that- I said "yes" so much when I wanted to say "no" because that made me feel like no one could ever rape me again.

And HE LIVED A FLOOR ABOVE ME. He would sneak into my room sometimes just to harass me. You can sit here and tell me up and down that going to the cops would've stopped that- but they wouldn't have gotten there in TIME. Or imagine if they hadn't found ANY evidence? And he just got released? Cause I don't WANT to imagine that.

You have NO idea how cripplingly hard it is to have PTSD or live with it.
This week alone- because this and Yes means yes is all anyone can seem to discuss- I had the thought of "Its been 8 years, I might live to 80. I have to live the rest of my life with this, and its not even my fault..." Its fucked.


ETA trigger warning

< Message edited by shiftyw -- 9/3/2014 6:55:05 PM >

(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
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RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 6:45:54 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa

As for ruining someone else's life. First, they ruined yours, second, who is to say that it is ruining their life. Clearly something was wrong if they are going to commit rape [among other things, like making threats]. So instead of looking at it like you are ruining their life, look at it like you are finding a way for them to get help that they wouldn't have gotten on their own.



Oh jeez! I never looked at it that way? I could've been free of this crippling guilt and all my problems a long time ago, let me go tell my therapist I'm fine now!

Also whos to say? Didn't we just get a thread pulled because everyone and their brother is sooooo worried about false accusations ruining people's lives?
I know what happened happened- but no one else saw it. No one else can say for sure it did, right? So a lot of people could think I was just some stupid girl looking for attention or regretting something. I mean I am under 30, my head is full of fluff and irresponsibility.

How does no one see how offensive they are being?

Also...you're assuming I believe in our prison system. I don't. At all. No part of me thinks he would be better when he got out. But a discussion about for profit prisons seems better placed in P&R and not what we're discussing right now.

In a perfect world, shit would be easy. False accusations wouldn't happen. And there'd be better ways of proving rape.
But then in a perfect world, there wouldn't be rapists...now would there?


(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
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RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 6:50:51 PM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline 		I don't feel I, Shifty or anyone else has to defend their reasons for not reporting it or tolerate having anyone try to throw a guilt trip or judgement on those who didn't report their rape.

My priority was keeping myself alive during (4 hours at knife point, 2 guys, raped in every way possible) and keeping myself alive afterwards meaning I had many thoughts of suicide afterwards so my priority was getting myself emotionally healthy again.

As for going to trial, my thoughts weren't about telling the courts my sexual history or them digging up dirt on me (I was married and in a monogamous marriage, no dirt there), it had nothing to do with fear of what I was wearing or if I was drunk (I don't drink). I was alone at my lake cabin for the weekend for some alone relaxation time, my thoughts were of having to explain in detail what they did to me and I was not ready to face the reality of it myself let alone in a courtroom full of people.

It's really easy to say "report it", it's not so easy when you're faced with that decision and under the emotional distress, confusion, fear, physical and emotional pain and all the other shit you have to deal with when raped.

If someone wants to say I was wrong or selfish for not reporting it, so be it. The choice I made was what I had to do for me. I have since worked with many rape victims and I do talk to them, encourage them to report it, some do report, some don't and I've respected their choice and stood by their side with whatever decision they made.









_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.


(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 6:59:50 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

So if a girl gets so drunk she can't remember what day of the week it is, its an invitation to be RAPED? How does the rapist get out of that so easily? < That is victim blaming. Not personal responsibility.

I'm not justifying my lack of reporting to you. You can think I'm as stupid as you want, YOU didn't live it. YOU don't have PTSD or Rape trauma syndrome.

I am seeking counseling. It took me three to find one that I was comfortable telling. Its not that easy.

And it matters what people think, so much more than you're assuming. Do police not have biases? Do police not victim blame? Do they not see false accusations and then become clouded by their own personal judgement? Lets say it goes to trial. It comes out that you "enjoy hip hop and going out on a Friday!" suddenly that gets turned into "asking for it". OR GOSH, perhaps you even enjoy BDSM- I mean aren't you then FOR SURE asking for it?
It is scary as hell.

I barely even remember what I did right after it happened. I have no idea how I walked back to my dorm room. I have no recollection of it at all. Hell, there's whole chunks of the event I remember in a way that is different from a normal memory. Trauma warps your mind. I disassociated HARDCORE. I couldn't even remember if HE CAME IN ME. Do you know what that feels like? To know something AWFUL happened, but you only remember it like a fuzzy choppy recording? I was stone cold sober, but that day and the next three in my memory feel like I was swimming through water. I remember cutting class to go to Planned Parenthood, but I barely remember the appointment because all my brain could think was "WHAT IF I HAVE AIDS?", and now everytime I go to the doctor, its all I can think. The only other thoughts I had revolved mostly around committing suicide. There, for me, wasn't a rational thought in my head.

I immediately found a guy I liked and trusted to "take my virginity" (even if I had just lost it to my rapist). I found a whole string of men after that- I said "yes" so much when I wanted to say "no" because that made me feel like no one could ever rape me again.

And HE LIVED A FLOOR ABOVE ME. He would sneak into my room sometimes just to harass me. You can sit here and tell me up and down that going to the cops would've stopped that- but they wouldn't have gotten there in TIME. Or imagine if they hadn't found ANY evidence? And he just got released? Cause I don't WANT to imagine that.

You have NO idea how cripplingly hard it is to have PTSD or live with it.
This week alone- because this and Yes means yes is all anyone can seem to discuss- I had the thought of "Its been 8 years, I might live to 80. I have to live the rest of my life with this, and its not even my fault..." Its fucked.




Well Sweetheart, I did live it, at 10 years old my mother sold me to her drug dealer, I woke up after being drugged to bleeding between my legs, and living with the man raping me several times a year when ever payment was due, getting pregnant miscarrying the child and going to in sepsis.

I Now cant have children... So MY opinion comes from being a Rape Survivor.....Not victim.

AND GETTING SO FUCKING DRUNK YOU CANT REMEMBER YOUR NAME, isnt rape. Its you being stupid, Its you NOT using common sense to realize getting drunk around people you dont know, even if they are people you know but you dont fully trust, isnt smart. Its you putting yourself in a situation you cant get out of. For all you know the guy was just as drunk as you, and you said yes. Why is HE now a rapist, because YOU were stupid.


Recently a guy I was dating decided that my time table for sex didnt fit his and he got on top of me and tried to undo my pants. I was able to fight him off and went to the police...

I wasnt victim blamed or shamed, they took my report and what evidence I had on me and ran it through their databases. And officer came to my house and collected things like bottles he drank out of.

It came up his dna was in two women in New Jersey for rape and hes now being prosecuted for that.

Had I not gone to the cops he would have continued on his merry little way.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 7:16:06 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I'm sorry for what you went through, and are going through- but I stand by my decision not to report.

And getting that drunk isn't smart, but it isn't an invitation for rape.
And how many times in the past year has a major rape case been LIVE TWEETED as its happening. If you're sober enough to know how to live tweet or put a video of the rape up on facebook, you're sober enough to know you're raping someone- and in my opinion- while she may not have been very safe- she didn't DESERVE rape. Rape should not talked about like an inevitability of getting drunk.

And if he's too drunk to gain consent properly- or question if she's really down- or just drunk off her ass- then isn't he an idiot for getting that drunk also?

The yes means yes law also applies in reverse, so if you're both too drunk to consent- you're both breaking it. 'Affirmative consent' means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. ... Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. (It) ... can be revoked at any time."

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 7:26:17 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
<snip>
In a perfect world, shit would be easy. False accusations wouldn't happen. And there'd be better ways of proving rape.
But then in a perfect world, there wouldn't be rapists...now would there?

I am amazed that either one of you, shifty or InHisHeart, could have survived such harrowing and traumatic experiences without hating all men. Or ever being able to trust a man again. I don't think I would have been capable of that when I was younger (before getting married and having sons of my own). You are both very resilient to have faced these demons in intensive therapy, and for putting on a brave new face day after day. I have heard that when a married woman gets raped, one spouse frequently rejects the other or they end up splitting up over it because the marriage is never the same again.

What a lot of men don't realize is that this could be their wife or girlfriend, their sister, their mother, daughter, aunt or niece, any woman they know and couldn't "protect" from such an egregious fate. This can also happen to them or to another male. Sexual predators don't confine their ranges - whatever that sociopathic and/or psychopathic range may be - once they have tasted blood, and most criminals are opportunists.

ETA: Posted before I read yours quizzicalkitten, and I'm sorry to hear your horrific story.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 9/3/2014 7:31:58 PM >

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 7:28:48 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I'm sorry for what you went through, and are going through- but I stand by my decision not to report.

And getting that drunk isn't smart, but it isn't an invitation for rape.
And how many times in the past year has a major rape case been LIVE TWEETED as its happening. If you're sober enough to know how to live tweet or put a video of the rape up on facebook, you're sober enough to know you're raping someone- and in my opinion- while she may not have been very safe- she didn't DESERVE rape. Rape should not talked about like an inevitability of getting drunk.

And if he's too drunk to gain consent properly- or question if she's really down- or just drunk off her ass- then isn't he an idiot for getting that drunk also?

The yes means yes law also applies in reverse, so if you're both too drunk to consent- you're both breaking it. 'Affirmative consent' means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. ... Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. (It) ... can be revoked at any time."


Question:
IF she wasnt drunk... and said no, there would have been no rape. If she chose to drink only one drink instead of 7 and said no there would be no rape. So wheres her culpability in getting so drunk she cant remember if she said yes or not?

I cant tell if someones one drink drunk, or 15 drinks drunk, and if they can or cant consent. I avoid drunk people like they have a disease for this reason. But to call it rape because they were drunk, doesnt make it rape. It makes a poor life choice, that you should learn from and grow from and realize, Fuck I shouldnt drink around people who might take me saying yes Im horny come fuck me when drunk as consent to sex.

Having sex with your partner when you might not want to because hes pestering, also isnt rape, its you not having a back bone.


To many whiny cunts claim rape when its not, because guess what, there are enough people now in this day and age that will back you and make it seem like the world is terrible for even questioning your story. And if you do question a rape victims story your victim blaming and a terrible person and how fucking dare you you should go kill yourself (ACTUALLY said to me when I questioned the change from Consensual sex, to vaginal rape, to oral sodomy)





< Message edited by quizzicalkitten -- 9/3/2014 7:30:57 PM >

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 7:40:17 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I'm sorry for what you went through, and are going through- but I stand by my decision not to report.

And getting that drunk isn't smart, but it isn't an invitation for rape.
And how many times in the past year has a major rape case been LIVE TWEETED as its happening. If you're sober enough to know how to live tweet or put a video of the rape up on facebook, you're sober enough to know you're raping someone- and in my opinion- while she may not have been very safe- she didn't DESERVE rape. Rape should not talked about like an inevitability of getting drunk.

And if he's too drunk to gain consent properly- or question if she's really down- or just drunk off her ass- then isn't he an idiot for getting that drunk also?

The yes means yes law also applies in reverse, so if you're both too drunk to consent- you're both breaking it. 'Affirmative consent' means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. ... Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. (It) ... can be revoked at any time."


Question:
IF she wasnt drunk... and said no, there would have been no rape. If she chose to drink only one drink instead of 7 and said no there would be no rape. So wheres her culpability in getting so drunk she cant remember if she said yes or not?

I cant tell if someones one drink drunk, or 15 drinks drunk, and if they can or cant consent. I avoid drunk people like they have a disease for this reason. But to call it rape because they were drunk, doesnt make it rape. It makes a poor life choice, that you should learn from and grow from and realize, Fuck I shouldnt drink around people who might take me saying yes Im horny come fuck me when drunk as consent to sex.

Having sex with your partner when you might not want to because hes pestering, also isnt rape, its you not having a back bone.


To many whiny cunts claim rape when its not, because guess what, there are enough people now in this day and age that will back you and make it seem like the world is terrible for even questioning your story. And if you do question a rape victims story your victim blaming and a terrible person and how fucking dare you you should go kill yourself (ACTUALLY said to me when I questioned the change from Consensual sex, to vaginal rape, to oral sodomy)






No one here is claiming false reports don't happen.

I'm not saying a story SHOULDN'T be questioned.

But THATS a reason people don't go to the cops, like the OP asked. I mean, I knew/know my story wouldn't hold water. I did everything you aren't "supposed" to.

I mean I suppose mine doesn't count cause I didn't fight him off enough?
Guess I'm just a whiny cunt. I don't have the survivor badge. I'm just a useless victim, my depression or suicidal tendencies are just drama I created right?

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 7:54:16 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I'm sorry for what you went through, and are going through- but I stand by my decision not to report.

And getting that drunk isn't smart, but it isn't an invitation for rape.
And how many times in the past year has a major rape case been LIVE TWEETED as its happening. If you're sober enough to know how to live tweet or put a video of the rape up on facebook, you're sober enough to know you're raping someone- and in my opinion- while she may not have been very safe- she didn't DESERVE rape. Rape should not talked about like an inevitability of getting drunk.

And if he's too drunk to gain consent properly- or question if she's really down- or just drunk off her ass- then isn't he an idiot for getting that drunk also?

The yes means yes law also applies in reverse, so if you're both too drunk to consent- you're both breaking it. 'Affirmative consent' means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. ... Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. (It) ... can be revoked at any time."


Question:
IF she wasnt drunk... and said no, there would have been no rape. If she chose to drink only one drink instead of 7 and said no there would be no rape. So wheres her culpability in getting so drunk she cant remember if she said yes or not?

I cant tell if someones one drink drunk, or 15 drinks drunk, and if they can or cant consent. I avoid drunk people like they have a disease for this reason. But to call it rape because they were drunk, doesnt make it rape. It makes a poor life choice, that you should learn from and grow from and realize, Fuck I shouldnt drink around people who might take me saying yes Im horny come fuck me when drunk as consent to sex.

Having sex with your partner when you might not want to because hes pestering, also isnt rape, its you not having a back bone.


To many whiny cunts claim rape when its not, because guess what, there are enough people now in this day and age that will back you and make it seem like the world is terrible for even questioning your story. And if you do question a rape victims story your victim blaming and a terrible person and how fucking dare you you should go kill yourself (ACTUALLY said to me when I questioned the change from Consensual sex, to vaginal rape, to oral sodomy)






No one here is claiming false reports don't happen.

I'm not saying a story SHOULDN'T be questioned.

But THATS a reason people don't go to the cops, like the OP asked. I mean, I knew/know my story wouldn't hold water. I did everything you aren't "supposed" to.

I mean I suppose mine doesn't count cause I didn't fight him off enough?
Guess I'm just a whiny cunt. I don't have the survivor badge. I'm just a useless victim, my depression or suicidal tendencies are just drama I created right?



I think your a victim because you say you are. I dont know your story but if the jist of it is, I didnt tell my partner no because it meant he would hound me for hours for sex, then No I dont think its rape.

I do things I dont want to do because its easier then not doing it, it doesnt make it a crime, Im actively making the choice to do something Id prefer not to.

And if your depressed or suicidal get help,
If you want sympathy for your plight, Its not going to happen from me, others will pat you on the head and tell you its okay,
I wont because I dont think remaining a victim is okay. I dont think calling something that can be seen as consensual, as rape.

Ive watched lives be destroyed from false rape claims. Even after the guy PROVED IT WAS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE because he was in a different STATE. He still gets labeled a rapist because some cunt regretted telling him he could do what he wanted and he took her anally.

Sorry but false rape claims happen, and they happen more frequently as we have the victim blaming movement in full force because anyone can claim rape and get a few hundred people on the internet to say aww... there there... its okay we will help you destroy the life of the big bad man you are saying raped you because he touched some other girls bum at a different party as he walked by....

And Yes there should be a time limit on reporting rape, it would make it better for all parties involved if there was because evidence degrades over time.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 8:00:29 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:

I dont know your story


And that is the most sense you've made on this thread. You are not apprised of her story and damn sure should relent.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 8:07:32 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL:

I dont know your story


And that is the most sense you've made on this thread. You are not apprised of her story and damn sure should relent.

Jus sayin


Aww Big bad white knight to the rescue, Im not surprised.

If people on the internet shes never met before affect her so much, perhaps she shouldnt involve herself in rape discussions, or get off the internet if people hurt her feelings..

Or grow the fuck up and act like 25 year old she claims to be.




(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 8:16:12 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL:

I dont know your story


And that is the most sense you've made on this thread. You are not apprised of her story and damn sure should relent.

Jus sayin


Aww Big bad white knight to the rescue, Im not surprised.

If people on the internet shes never met before affect her so much, perhaps she shouldnt involve herself in rape discussions, or get off the internet if people hurt her feelings..

Or grow the fuck up and act like 25 year old she claims to be.






Wow, you are incredibly foul. I cannot imagine why anyone hasn't snapped you up yet. Ponder that the rest of your lonesome and miserable life.

;)


_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: "Yes means yes" part 2 - 9/3/2014 8:18:49 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL:

I dont know your story


And that is the most sense you've made on this thread. You are not apprised of her story and damn sure should relent.

Jus sayin


Aww Big bad white knight to the rescue, Im not surprised.

If people on the internet shes never met before affect her so much, perhaps she shouldnt involve herself in rape discussions, or get off the internet if people hurt her feelings..

Or grow the fuck up and act like 25 year old she claims to be.






Wow, you are incredibly foul. I cannot imagine why anyone hasn't snapped you up yet. Ponder that the rest of your lonesome and miserable life.

;)




Ill tell both my submissives that they dont exist, and that I have to be lonesome and miserable because some guy on the internet told me so.

Gosh your so funny, and so protective too... Its funny.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 20
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