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RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 4:57:49 PM

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63.

A little over 40 years ago was the time of the Arab oil embargo.
Compare that to the Japanese in 1941, when we imposed an embargo on them, they attacked us in defiance.

Are you trying to say that the arabs refused to sell us oil as we(abcd countires) refused to sell japan oil and other stratiegic materials like iron and aluminum? Because that is not true. The arabs just raised the price on the advice of hernry kissinger and approved by nixxon.

When the Arabs imposed an embargo on us, we got down on our knees and begged, "Oh please, pleeeeease sell us oil! We'll do anything! We'll pay double, triple...quadruple!!! Please, please, please, we need oil!" They saw our weakness and capitalized on it.

You are a fucking moron. No one got down on their knees. It was our goverment that fucked us.

And by paying them all that money, rather than making our stand right then and there,

So you think we should have just attacked them and stolen their shit.

we have unwittingly given them virtually unlimited finance.

Given....I think it is called paying for what you want not giving them anything.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 4:58:23 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The point being that you deal with the threat, should we have waited till there were Nazi soldiers on American soil? The Germans and Italians hadn't done anything to us and we declared war on them anyway.

Well, we actually did wait--to the deep dismay of the British--until we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. I think the Germans declared war on us first, in response to our declaring war against Japan, but I'm too tired to hit the books tonight. Not sure about Italy.

Germany and Italy declared war on us on Dec 8, earlier in the day than we declared on them.
Arab terrorists have been at war with us for nearly forty years and have done much more to us than the Germans or Italians had. They have even done more than Pearl.
We are being told to ignore what they say and just wait till they attack, shouldn't we have done the same with Germany, after all it was a meaningless declaration of war, if we stayed out of the war zone they couldn't have come over here and harmed us. It was just words, can't go to war over that.

Germany and Italy declared war on the United States on December 11, 1941, not December 8. We declared war on Japan on December 8, after they had already declared war on us (although their declaration of war was not issued until after the attack).

Thanks for the date correction, changes nothing.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 5:01:32 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The U.S. lost 420,000 souls in World War II. Have Arab terrorists really claimed more than that?

I said Pearl not in the war.
9/11 alone matched our loses at Pearl.

The sentence before you mentioned Pearl Harbor said the following:

Arab terrorists have been at war with us for nearly forty years and have done much more to us than the Germans or Italians had.

That raises the question of how much the Germans and Italians did.

The point that you cannot seem to grasp is that just like we fought it like a war when Germany and Italy declared war it would be foolish not to respond the same when ISIS and their ilk do the same.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 5:20:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

So you think we should have just attacked them and stolen their shit.

Of course not. We could have boycotted and broken off diplomatic relations, but the people just couldn't bear to be without oil.

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 5:22:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

You are a fucking moron. No one got down on their knees. It was our goverment that fucked us.

According to your own post, it was Nixon and Kissinger who got on their knees on our behalf. The government fucked us and it fucked itself at the same time. I think that's why we're in the current situation we're in. So I don't see where your disagreement is. I'm right, and you're as much as agreeing with me, yet you call me a "moron"? Physician, heal thyself.

< Message edited by Zonie63 -- 9/13/2014 5:23:11 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 5:44:54 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

You are a fucking moron. No one got down on their knees. It was our goverment that fucked us.

According to your own post, it was Nixon and Kissinger who got on their knees on our behalf. The government fucked us and it fucked itself at the same time. I think that's why we're in the current situation we're in. So I don't see where your disagreement is. I'm right, and you're as much as agreeing with me, yet you call me a "moron"? Physician, heal thyself.

Yes, our problems date back to that. The embargo could be fairly described as economic warfare. We have never taken steps toward energy independence.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 5:56:54 PM

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

You are a fucking moron. No one got down on their knees. It was our goverment that fucked us.

According to your own post, it was Nixon and Kissinger who got on their knees on our behalf.

Kissinger and nixxons position on this is part of the public record. It was simply a scam to make money. Consider how much of our energy was/is produced here. When the arabs raised the price of their oil our oil price went up right beside it. So who is begging arabs for anything? It did not quadruple overnight. It took years to go from 30 cents to a dollar. Forty years of inflation also has not been kind to the price of gasoline either.

The government fucked us and it fucked itself at the same time.

No the rich get richer and the poor get pregnant.

I think that's why we're in the current situation we're in.

We as in the oil companies? We as in thee and me???not likely I do not use gasoline. I posses all the fuel I will need for the next 20 years so I am not part of that we. This silly phoquing war that the morons want to start from the safety of their arm chairs is the only "current situation" that we have. If we are going to have a mother fucking empire then nationalize all of the oil companies and launch the u.s. military at the oil fields. Take them and protect them and make them the 51 state. The reason that it would be necessary to nationalize the oil companies is otherwise it would be their responsibility to pay for the soldiers that got the oil for them.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 5:59:22 PM

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quote:

The point that you cannot seem to grasp is that just like we fought it like a war when Germany and Italy declared war it would be foolish not to respond the same when ISIS and their ilk do the same.

So you keep saying. That's why I asked you, some posts back, exactly what course of action you prescribe. If you have additional ideas on how to wage this war of yours, feel free to share them.

If we do get onto all-out war with ISIS, can we expect you to enlist?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 6:05:56 PM

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, our problems date back to that.

You too are clearly not aware of the issues. Why did nixxon and kissinger instigate this? Why did the arabs raise the price of oil?

The embargo could be fairly described as economic warfare.

There was never an embargo there was an increase in price.
It would help if you knew what the fuck an embargo is.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=embargo

We have never taken steps toward energy independence.

Perhaps you might tell us who wants energy independence?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/13/2014 6:12:26 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 6:09:31 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The point that you cannot seem to grasp is that just like we fought it like a war when Germany and Italy declared war it would be foolish not to respond the same when ISIS and their ilk do the same.

So you keep saying. That's why I asked you, some posts back, exactly what course of action you prescribe. If you have additional ideas on how to wage this war of yours, feel free to share them.

If we do get onto all-out war with ISIS, can we expect you to enlist?

It is not my war, it is ISIS's.
I am 64 and diabetic with arthritis don't think they would want me.
I would be happy to serve in the same capacity I was in when it started, (I was in the Air Force at that time. I enlisted in 1973 and retired in 93.
Don't even try to play that game, it is stupid and insulting.
We need to be proactive, not purely defensive.
We need to quite hiding our heads in the sand, which is what your inference that anyone who sees the problem (not the same as wanting a war) as some kind of war monger.
Each war must be fought differently due to the variable factors involved.
What do you want to do? Ignore them and hope they will go away.
Or start studying the Koran?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/13/2014 7:00:22 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 6:11:25 PM

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

If we do get onto all-out war with ISIS, can we expect you to enlist?

I have never known a chariborn ranger to enlist.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 6:24:46 PM

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

It is not my war, it is ISIS's.

So now you are not in favor of a war with isis?

I am 64 and diabetic with arthritis don't think they would want me.

But you have told us over and over again what a total bad ass you are and what a good shot you are and how you dont back down because as you say if you start backing down then you wont ever stop.

I enlisted in 1973 and retired in 93.

Wasn't your t.o. weapon a clip board?

Don't even try to play that game, it is stupid and insulting.

Your whole warmonger attitude is insulting and stupid.

We need to be proactive, not purely defensive.

Since you have excused your fat ass from any part of the body bag lotto your use of the pronoun we is totally wrong.

We need to quite hiding our heads in the sand, which is what your inference that anyone who sees the problem (not the same as wanting a war) as some kind of war monger.

It is not us with our heads in the sand it is you with your head up your ass. Tell us if you will just when the u.s. has not been in a conflict some place in the world since the inception of this country in 1789? Can any other country in the world boast such a record of warfare?

Each war must be fought differently due to the variable factors involved.

Yeah rightthese guys kill those guys till one side runs out of guys to kill. It has been pretty much that way for ten or so thousand years of recorded history.

What do you want to do? Ignore them and hope they will go away.

Perhaps if we quit stealing their shit and murdering their people they might consider having a discussion.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 6:57:24 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The point that you cannot seem to grasp is that just like we fought it like a war when Germany and Italy declared war it would be foolish not to respond the same when ISIS and their ilk do the same.

So you keep saying. That's why I asked you, some posts back, exactly what course of action you prescribe. If you have additional ideas on how to wage this war of yours, feel free to share them.

If we do get onto all-out war with ISIS, can we expect you to enlist?

If we wait for them to come here can we count on you to resist?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 7:04:57 PM

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quote:

If we wait for them to come here can we count on you to resist?

I see the "game" wasn't too "stupid and insulting" to preclude your joining in.

As for ISIS' arrival, when are we expecting them? I'm better in the afternoons than the mornings.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 7:10:40 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

If we wait for them to come here can we count on you to resist?

I see the "game" wasn't too "stupid and insulting" to preclude your joining in.

As for ISIS' arrival, when are we expecting them? I'm better in the afternoons than the mornings.

As a retired veteran I am insulted. As a pacifist it is something you have to face.
Another stupid question which of course cannot be answered.
I don't expect them, I like to think that people will wake up before it comes to that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 7:34:57 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

If we wait for them to come here can we count on you to resist?

I see the "game" wasn't too "stupid and insulting" to preclude your joining in.

As for ISIS' arrival, when are we expecting them? I'm better in the afternoons than the mornings.

Actually they are already here. Have you not read the reports of Americans flying to join ISIS and making plans to do so. I, personally, think that is treason and would try them as such. I believe the current discussion has been on whether their citizenship and/or passports should be revoked.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2661727/Jihad-Cool-The-young-Americans-lured-fight-ISIS-militants-rap-videos-adventurism-hand-accounts-fun-guerrilla-war.html

Britain has the same issue going on as well as all of Europe.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/13/2014 10:01:40 PM

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A few books that should be helpful to much of this discussion:

A Peace to End All Peace by David Fromkin

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=a+peace+to+end+all+peace&x=29&y=12

The Control of Oil by John Malcolm Blair

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=the+control+of+oil

These two books are essential in my estimation. The first book deals only with the political (including military) aspects of the Western powers' creation of the modern ME. There are a couple of mentions of "[T]hat man from Standard Oil," who seemed to be involved in almost any significant discussion or decision making.

The second book addresses the impetus and motivation behind those decisions, along with the interested parties' further influence on both (US) foreign and domestic policy.

Your local library might likely have the first book, not so sure about the second one, but most systems have a library loan service. I put a link to ABE books for anyone interested.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/13/2014 10:34:12 PM >

(in reply to Aylee)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/14/2014 3:47:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

If we wait for them to come here can we count on you to resist?

I see the "game" wasn't too "stupid and insulting" to preclude your joining in.

As for ISIS' arrival, when are we expecting them? I'm better in the afternoons than the mornings.

Actually they are already here. Have you not read the reports of Americans flying to join ISIS and making plans to do so. I, personally, think that is treason and would try them as such. I believe the current discussion has been on whether their citizenship and/or passports should be revoked.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2661727/Jihad-Cool-The-young-Americans-lured-fight-ISIS-militants-rap-videos-adventurism-hand-accounts-fun-guerrilla-war.html

Britain has the same issue going on as well as all of Europe.

Why the rush to confuse going to fight Assad with going to join ISIS, it is hadly the same thing.

(in reply to Aylee)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/14/2014 6:24:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
We as in the oil companies? We as in thee and me???not likely I do not use gasoline. I posses all the fuel I will need for the next 20 years so I am not part of that we. This silly phoquing war that the morons want to start from the safety of their arm chairs is the only "current situation" that we have. If we are going to have a mother fucking empire then nationalize all of the oil companies and launch the u.s. military at the oil fields. Take them and protect them and make them the 51 state. The reason that it would be necessary to nationalize the oil companies is otherwise it would be their responsibility to pay for the soldiers that got the oil for them.

We as in "The United States of America." It doesn't matter if you personally use gasoline or not. It also affects any product you might use that is shipped using gasoline. The "current situation" is not just about the Middle East, but also about the current state of our economy and the well-being of the people. It's pretty clear that decisions made back in the 1970s fucked the government and fucked America as a whole.

It's not much of an argument to say that the "rich got richer," since they're the same imbeciles who made the decisions that put America in this sorry position in the first place. They're far worse than whatever "armchair warriors" there are around here. They're the ones screaming about all these "threats" around the world, yet they're the ones who created this "threat" and put themselves in the supposedly "precarious" position they believe themselves to be in.

The current situation we're in is the result of stupid decisions made in the past, such as decisions made by Nixon and Kissinger. But the "armchair warriors" don't seem to realize that it's these dumb decisions which lead to these "threats" they want to eradicate. Yet, they still advocate making more dumb decisions.

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Wanna buy a slave? - 9/14/2014 6:37:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The point being that you deal with the threat, should we have waited till there were Nazi soldiers on American soil? The Germans and Italians hadn't done anything to us and we declared war on them anyway.

Well, we actually did wait--to the deep dismay of the British--until we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. I think the Germans declared war on us first, in response to our declaring war against Japan, but I'm too tired to hit the books tonight. Not sure about Italy.

The Germans did declare war on the US, but I don't think it had anything to do with Japan.

It was more that Hitler and associated odd-balls were a pack of lunatics, who, while deeply embroiled in attempting to conquer Russia; thought it would be a good idea to declare war on the United States at the same time.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to dcnovice)

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