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RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 1:48:13 PM

BamaD

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FR

Isn't it interesting that some people see an attack on Parliament in Canada is justification for an attack on U S gun laws, even if they have to use purely fictional examples.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 1:50:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Same in Alabama with the added factor that if someone like Fd panics you can be charged with disturbing the peace, and that is just for open carry, not "brandishing'

From what I have heard, the same is true in Florida...including possible jail time.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:01:38 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Same in Alabama with the added factor that if someone like Fd panics you can be charged with disturbing the peace, and that is just for open carry, not "brandishing'

From what I have heard, the same is true in Florida...including possible jail time.

I don't know about FL

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:03:10 PM

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Ok. Bad choice of words.

But looking at Desi's map, there are an awful lot of places (30+ states) where you can openly carry guns without a permit and only 7 where it is prohibited.
Only *7* out of how many states?? That's a shitload of places where you can!!

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:05:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I don't know about FL

Literally, just heard from a Florida permit holder. Take it or leave it. *s*

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RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:09:13 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Ok. Bad choice of words.

But looking at Desi's map, there are an awful lot of places (30+ states) where you can openly carry guns without a permit and only 7 where it is prohibited.
Only *7* out of how many states?? That's a shitload of places where you can!!

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

See my exchange with Littleladybug, many states are like that.
Alabama is one of those allegedly open carry states, and I have only ever seen one none security person carry open outside their own place of business.
He repaired ATMs in the middle of the night.
Open carry is a quantum difference from brandishing, it is revealing that your instinct was to call it brandishing.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/22/2014 2:11:22 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:11:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

And, gee, look what happened in Ottawa today.

Interesting thing to me is that these guys apparently weren't even all that organized. So...you have people flying by the seat of their pants, with some vendetta against the Canadian government (and shot a soldier at a national war memorial no less), getting into the Canadian parliament building and shooting it up. Obviously, if the US had stricter gun laws, this would never have happened in Canada.

Why not look at the real issue...which are the PEOPLE that shot the guns, not the guns themselves?

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:29:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

And, gee, look what happened in Ottawa today.

Interesting thing to me is that these guys apparently weren't even all that organized. So...you have people flying by the seat of their pants, with some vendetta against the Canadian government (and shot a soldier at a national war memorial no less), getting into the Canadian parliament building and shooting it up. Obviously, if the US had stricter gun laws, this would never have happened in Canada.

Why not look at the real issue...which are the PEOPLE that shot the guns, not the guns themselves?

And you seem to think that guns aren't available in Canada, UK, Australia et al.

They are. It's just a tad harder and we don't have a dozen guns stores along the main street like in the US.
Anyone can apply for a gun just like the US. You go through health and criminal checks (unlike the US where you can get around these laws), and when approved, you can go buy your gun.

You don't have to be organised. I don't see why you even brought that up.
You only need a small number of people of like minds to get together and go cause havoc somewhere.

And yes, I would go so far to state that if guns weren't soo prolific in the US and soo easy to get hold of, many Canadians wouldn't have quite so many guns.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:33:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Ok. Bad choice of words.

But looking at Desi's map, there are an awful lot of places (30+ states) where you can openly carry guns without a permit and only 7 where it is prohibited.
Only *7* out of how many states?? That's a shitload of places where you can!!

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

actually that map is not accurate, I don't know about the other 29 states, but Missouri, which is listed in the map as open carry without any permit is incorrect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Missouri

Subject/Law / Long Guns / Handgun / Relevant Statutes / Notes

Open carry permitted? / Yes / Yes / / Open carry is permitted as of October 11, 2014 with a valid CCW state wide. Over rides local laws against Open Carry .

State preemption of local restrictions? /Yes / Yes / / NO local governments may regulate open carry if the carrier has a valid CCW, but can regulate the discharge of firearms ( except in self defense ).

and this is a very recently changed law, prior to this local municipalities had their own ordinances regarding this

what that meant was prior to this law, each city or town could decide for themselves whether they wanted open carry or not, I know St Louis and KC both had restrictions on it prior to this

in other words, while it was ok to walk around the cornfield with your shotgun on your shoulder you could NOT do it in most populated areas...

I'd like to point something else out to Mr Highnmighty, England is aprox. the size of the state of Missouri, while the USA is QUITE VAST and has many many wilderness areas...

so in England what's the most dangerous animal you might run across, grizzly bears? black bears? wolves? (maybe) surely some snakes?

to restrict the entire USA to your universal gun laws is just STUPID, you're saying people who live in Montana, Wyoming etc etc etc should go out into the wilderness with bears, mountain lions, wolves, rattle snakes etc etc etc with just your 2 X 4 with nails in it?

_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:37:37 PM

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Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Isn't it interesting that some people see an attack on Parliament in Canada is justification for an attack on U S gun laws, even if they have to use purely fictional examples.

I'm waiting for the conspiracy nuts to come out of the woodwork and claim this attack was all staged/a hoax/whatever to force a conversation/action on US gun laws.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:43:25 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Isn't it interesting that some people see an attack on Parliament in Canada is justification for an attack on U S gun laws, even if they have to use purely fictional examples.

I'm waiting for the conspiracy nuts to come out of the woodwork and claim this attack was all staged/a hoax/whatever to force a conversation/action on US gun laws.

No, but our resident gunaphobs seem to think that a gun crime anywhere in the world is a good excuse to attack U S gun laws, it should be noted that the recent attack in Canada with a car killed more people.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/22/2014 2:47:45 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to RockaRolla)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:48:35 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

And, gee, look what happened in Ottawa today.

Interesting thing to me is that these guys apparently weren't even all that organized. So...you have people flying by the seat of their pants, with some vendetta against the Canadian government (and shot a soldier at a national war memorial no less), getting into the Canadian parliament building and shooting it up. Obviously, if the US had stricter gun laws, this would never have happened in Canada.

Why not look at the real issue...which are the PEOPLE that shot the guns, not the guns themselves?

And you seem to think that guns aren't available in Canada, UK, Australia et al.

They are. It's just a tad harder and we don't have a dozen guns stores along the main street like in the US.
Anyone can apply for a gun just like the US. You go through health and criminal checks (unlike the US where you can get around these laws), and when approved, you can go buy your gun.

You don't have to be organised. I don't see why you even brought that up.
You only need a small number of people of like minds to get together and go cause havoc somewhere.

And yes, I would go so far to state that if guns weren't soo prolific in the US and soo easy to get hold of, many Canadians wouldn't have quite so many guns.

I have been through a lot of towns and I have never seen one with a dozen gun stores along the main street. But I am used to you getting facts about the US wrong so I wasn't surprised when you claimed it was so. I guess it's easier to spot them if you are only going 30 mph. And I hate to break it to you sparky but folks can get around laws in other countries also. Same with a small number of people causing havoc. They don't even need a gun to do that. A few well placed bombs would do the trick. But I forgot, you are the expert on all things US. And now you are resorting to blaming the us for guns in Canada. I guess your bullshit has no boundaries.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:49:41 PM

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Joined: 10/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

And, gee, look what happened in Ottawa today.

Interesting thing to me is that these guys apparently weren't even all that organized. So...you have people flying by the seat of their pants, with some vendetta against the Canadian government (and shot a soldier at a national war memorial no less), getting into the Canadian parliament building and shooting it up. Obviously, if the US had stricter gun laws, this would never have happened in Canada.

Why not look at the real issue...which are the PEOPLE that shot the guns, not the guns themselves?

And you seem to think that guns aren't available in Canada, UK, Australia et al.

They are. It's just a tad harder and we don't have a dozen guns stores along the main street like in the US.
Anyone can apply for a gun just like the US. You go through health and criminal checks (unlike the US where you can get around these laws), and when approved, you can go buy your gun.

You don't have to be organised. I don't see why you even brought that up.
You only need a small number of people of like minds to get together and go cause havoc somewhere.

And yes, I would go so far to state that if guns weren't soo prolific in the US and soo easy to get hold of, many Canadians wouldn't have quite so many guns.

why do you feel the need to just make stuff up to try to make your point...

the bolded part is not even CLOSE to true. I live in St Louis metro population aprox. 3 million. the nearest place for me to buy a gun is MIN 10 miles away. (its possible there are pawn shops closer that sell guns though) where I actually go to buy guns is a 45 min drive... that's taking the highway driving 60 MPH BTW

this is why no one really takes you seriously, you wave your arms around and scream completely false and ignorant crap...

I've actually read some things regarding guns where you made some VALID points, then two lines later you DESTROY all credibility you had with your frantic moronic arm waving

_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 2:52:21 PM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
actually that map is not accurate, I don't know about the other 29 states, but Missouri, which is listed in the map as open carry without any permit is incorrect

But you can still open carry - even if you now need a permit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
I'd like to point something else out to Mr Highnmighty, England is aprox. the size of the state of Missouri, while the USA is QUITE VAST and has many many wilderness areas...

so in England what's the most dangerous animal you might run across, grizzly bears? black bears? wolves? (maybe) surely some snakes?

to restrict the entire USA to your universal gun laws is just STUPID, you're saying people who live in Montana, Wyoming etc etc etc should go out into the wilderness with bears, mountain lions, wolves, rattle snakes etc etc etc with just your 2 X 4 with nails in it?

I never made any such claims. Your words, not mine.
People here who live in open spaces, in the highlands etc, have guns just like you have in the US.

You don't read too well do you?!
I said that we can have guns just like you can - and many do.
What we don't have, is mass shootings and a stupidly high gun death rate that you have.
The same can be said of any country that has strict gun laws.

Australia is about the same size as the US.
It probably has just as much (if not more) unpopulated areas as the US has.
Australia has strict gun laws, the US doesn't. Compare the stats.
Now tell me that those strict gun laws don't work - because they do!!

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BitYakin)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:03:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

And you seem to think that guns aren't available in Canada, UK, Australia et al.

Actually, I have spent quite a bit of the past 8 years north of the 49th parallel. Please refresh my recollection...how is it that an average Canadian citizen goes about getting a handgun?

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You don't have to be organised. I don't see why you even brought that up.
You only need a small number of people of like minds to get together and go cause havoc somewhere.

I brought that up because, gasp, I felt it was actually germane to the initial post....which was about shootings in Canada, not about American gun laws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

And yes, I would go so far to state that if guns weren't soo prolific in the US and soo easy to get hold of, many Canadians wouldn't have quite so many guns.

And, I would go so far as to say that you are talking out of your ass. If it wasn't the US, it would certainly be someplace else. *I* would go so far as to state that if someone wants a gun, they will get it. If it doesn't come from the US, it will come from somewhere else.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:04:22 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
actually that map is not accurate, I don't know about the other 29 states, but Missouri, which is listed in the map as open carry without any permit is incorrect

But you can still open carry - even if you now need a permit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
I'd like to point something else out to Mr Highnmighty, England is aprox. the size of the state of Missouri, while the USA is QUITE VAST and has many many wilderness areas...

so in England what's the most dangerous animal you might run across, grizzly bears? black bears? wolves? (maybe) surely some snakes?

to restrict the entire USA to your universal gun laws is just STUPID, you're saying people who live in Montana, Wyoming etc etc etc should go out into the wilderness with bears, mountain lions, wolves, rattle snakes etc etc etc with just your 2 X 4 with nails in it?

I never made any such claims. Your words, not mine.
People here who live in open spaces, in the highlands etc, have guns just like you have in the US.

You don't read too well do you?!
I said that we can have guns just like you can - and many do.
What we don't have, is mass shootings and a stupidly high gun death rate that you have.
The same can be said of any country that has strict gun laws.

Australia is about the same size as the US.
It probably has just as much (if not more) unpopulated areas as the US has.
Australia has strict gun laws, the US doesn't. Compare the stats.
Now tell me that those strict gun laws don't work - because they do!!

You can't take your blinders off can you. Australian crime rates are virtually unchanged since enacting their gun laws, so they didn't make any difference.
Only a fool would say that you can own guns just like we do when you live in a country where owning a gun gives the government the right to search your house whenever they want.

A permit, that means you have had a background check, and have a clean background.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/22/2014 3:05:46 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:15:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
why do you feel the need to just make stuff up to try to make your point...

I don't.
So maybe not dozens, but shitloads more than we have.
Do you really like nit-picking??

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
the bolded part is not even CLOSE to true. I live in St Louis metro population aprox. 3 million. the nearest place for me to buy a gun is MIN 10 miles away. (its possible there are pawn shops closer that sell guns though) where I actually go to buy guns is a 45 min drive... that's taking the highway driving 60 MPH BTW

You must live in a very sparse area then!

"There are ~14,869 more gun stores in America than grocery stores. Specifically, there are 51,438 gun retailers and 36,536 grocery stores"
"There are almost as many gun dealers in America as gas stations. There are a total of 129,817 gun dealers in the country, which include retail stores (51,438), "collectors" (61,562), pawn shops (7,356), and importers and manufacturers. Meanwhile, there are 143,849 gas stations"
"There are more than twice as many gun stores in America as McDonalds restaurants. There are only 14,098 McDonalds"
"47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. with guns from 2006-2010. This was more than twice as many people as those killed by all other methods combined"
Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/more-gun-stores-in-america-than-grocery-stores-2012-12

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
this is why no one really takes you seriously, you wave your arms around and scream completely false and ignorant crap...

"31 Mass shootings in the U.S. since Columbine in 1999"
"19.5/1 Ratio of people killed by guns in the U.S. compared to other developed countries in the OECD. For 15-to-20-year-olds, firearm homicide rates in the U.S. are 42.7 times higher than in other OECD countries, according to a 2011 UCLA School of Public Health study"
"80 Percent of all firearm deaths that occurred in the U.S., among the 23 developed countries looked at in the UCLA study. Eighty-seven percent of all children ages 0 to 14 killed by guns in these countries are U.S. children"
"47,500 Murders from firearms in the U.S. between the years 2001-2005 alone – and nearly 8 in 10 of these murders involved a handgun, according to the FBI"
Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/unbelievable-facts-about-guns-in-america-2012-12

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
I've actually read some things regarding guns where you made some VALID points, then two lines later you DESTROY all credibility you had with your frantic moronic arm waving

Try reading some real facts for a change.
Got creditable links to support your shit?? Most of the time you haven't.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BitYakin)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:19:13 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

A permit, that means you have had a background check, and have a clean background.

Dang...will you please stop interrupting this fabulous diatribe with facts?????

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:24:57 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

A permit, that means you have had a background check, and have a clean background.

Dang...will you please stop interrupting this fabulous diatribe with facts?????

LOL

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:29:36 PM

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

And, gee, look what happened in Ottawa today.

Interesting thing to me is that these guys apparently weren't even all that organized. So...you have people flying by the seat of their pants, with some vendetta against the Canadian government (and shot a soldier at a national war memorial no less), getting into the Canadian parliament building and shooting it up. Obviously, if the US had stricter gun laws, this would never have happened in Canada.

Why not look at the real issue...which are the PEOPLE that shot the guns, not the guns themselves?

And you seem to think that guns aren't available in Canada, UK, Australia et al.

They are. It's just a tad harder and we don't have a dozen guns stores along the main street like in the US.
Anyone can apply for a gun just like the US. You go through health and criminal checks (unlike the US where you can get around these laws), and when approved, you can go buy your gun.

You don't have to be organised. I don't see why you even brought that up.
You only need a small number of people of like minds to get together and go cause havoc somewhere.

And yes, I would go so far to state that if guns weren't soo prolific in the US and soo easy to get hold of, many Canadians wouldn't have quite so many guns.

First, would you mind telling me what town in the US has a dozen gun dealers along main street? My home town is 118000 people, there are 5 sporting goods stores that sell firearms, and about 9 pawn shops that sell fire arms.

Second, to legally purchase a fire arm, you have to go through a criminal record check, fail that, you sol.

Third, and most important is the "This only happens in the US where you can buy a gun anywhere" crap that people keep trying to shove down our throats.

My point is that it can happen anywhere, any time, whether guns are legal or not.

The truth of the matter is that in the US, a person's mental health record is not part of the back ground check, the ATF had its teeth pulled years ago, and the freaking gun laws are not enforced, or impossible to enforce because of man power shortages.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

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