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RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:34:05 PM

BamaD

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a person's mental health record is not part of the back ground check,

This should be changed, with strict guidelines as to what counts as disqualifying.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:34:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You can't take your blinders off can you. Australian crime rates are virtually unchanged since enacting their gun laws, so they didn't make any difference.

Interesting.

According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, a government agency, the number of homicides in Australia did increase slightly in 1997 and peaked in 1999, but has since declined to the lowest number on record in 2007, the most recent year for which official figures are available.

Furthermore, murders using firearms have declined even more sharply than murders in general since the 1996 gun law. In the seven years prior to 1997, firearms were used in 24 percent of all Australian homicides. But most recently, firearms were used in only 11 percent of Australian homicides, according to figures for the 12 months ending July 1, 2007. That’s a decline of more than half since enactment of the gun law to which this message refers.
Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia/

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Only a fool would say that you can own guns just like we do when you live in a country where owning a gun gives the government the right to search your house whenever they want.

And just like the US, they have to get a court order and warrant to search your premises.
They can't just walk in and search.
So your statement is untrue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
A permit, that means you have had a background check, and have a clean background.

Oh really???
And how many have bought guns illegally in the US?
How many have legally managed to buy guns and have a permit and yet are not supposed to have gotten one because they have a criminal record and/or have a mental condition that prevents them from owning a gun?
Your laws, what few you have of them, aren't policed or enforced rigorously enough and that's why soo many slip through the loopholes.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:36:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

a person's mental health record is not part of the back ground check,

This should be changed, with strict guidelines as to what counts as disqualifying.

Then it should be.
Why allow a mentally unstable nutter to own a gun FFS!!
That has gotta be the biggest neon elephant in the room.
How fuckin stupid can you get.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:36:39 PM

BamaD

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And how many have bought guns illegally in the US?

They are illegal, that means in violation of the law, and thus have no bearing on gun laws.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:39:35 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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How many have legally managed to buy guns and have a permit and yet are not supposed to have gotten one because they have a criminal record and/or have a mental condition that prevents them from owning a gun?

Once again they have to violate the existing laws and falsify their identification so you are, as usual, blowing smoke.
So the answer would be none.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/22/2014 3:40:14 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:46:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Ok. Bad choice of words.

But looking at Desi's map, there are an awful lot of places (30+ states) where you can openly carry guns without a permit and only 7 where it is prohibited.
Only *7* out of how many states?? That's a shitload of places where you can!!

That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws.

And yet I have yet to see one person open carry. 47 years. Lived in rural areas, big cities and everywhere in between. I have never seen one person with a visible firearm except for law enforcement or armored car employees.

Just because it is legal to do so, does not mean it is a good idea. For one, you are just begging to have a long conversation with a cop. Second, as others have said, not tactically prudent.

Had a two day black powder season over the weekend. Quite a few deer taken in my neighnorhood, or at least shot at.

< Message edited by KYsissy -- 10/22/2014 3:48:54 PM >

_____________________________

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:51:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
First, would you mind telling me what town in the US has a dozen gun dealers along main street? My home town is 118000 people, there are 5 sporting goods stores that sell firearms, and about 9 pawn shops that sell fire arms.

That's 13 gun shops in one town.

There are approx 25 gun shops in London and the south east of just over 8.6 million people.
Just under 2x the gun stores with over 72x the population.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Second, to legally purchase a fire arm, you have to go through a criminal record check, fail that, you sol.

Apparently, not so. Not according to the BBC Panorama program.
And you can legally buy a gun at a gun fair without checks because they aren't always needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Third, and most important is the "This only happens in the US where you can buy a gun anywhere" crap that people keep trying to shove down our throats.

Because it's true??
You can buy a gun almost anywhere in the US and not always with checks and legally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
My point is that it can happen anywhere, any time, whether guns are legal or not.

Then explain why gun deaths are a whole order of magnitude and more in the US compared to other OECD countries.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:54:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And how many have bought guns illegally in the US?

They are illegal, that means in violation of the law, and thus have no bearing on gun laws.

So you don't count them???

So deaths caused by shootings of illegal guns don't count??

The point is, it is very easy to buy illegal guns or even legal guns illegally in the US where you can't do that so easily anywhere else.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:56:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

How many have legally managed to buy guns and have a permit and yet are not supposed to have gotten one because they have a criminal record and/or have a mental condition that prevents them from owning a gun?

Once again they have to violate the existing laws and falsify their identification so you are, as usual, blowing smoke.
So the answer would be none.

Apparently, according to jlf, mental health doesn't come into it.
So... a mental health nutcase can legally buy a gun.

Stupid... just utterly stupid.

A law that is as useful as a wet fart in a phone box.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 3:57:19 PM

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So....

With all of this being said....

The Canadian capitol was shot up today. Regardless of how eternally fascinating US gun laws are, is that really the issue? Crap...if I were one of the bad guys, I'd be LOVING this conversation. You all get involved in this discussion, and we will continue to (try to) plan terroristic activities.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:01:20 PM

BamaD

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And you can legally buy a gun at a gun fair without checks because they aren't always needed.

Not if you buy from a dealer, other sales depend on the state

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:03:18 PM

BamaD

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not always with checks and legally.

If it isn't bought legally it then it has no bearing on what the laws are.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/22/2014 4:04:14 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:03:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The point is, it is very easy to buy illegal guns or even legal guns illegally in the US where you can't do that so easily anywhere else.

There's no such thing as an "illegal legal gun"...

Insofar as buying guns anywhere else...where there is a will, there is a way. Apparently. If someone wants a gun, wherever they live, and want it bad enough, they can get it.

What screams out to me with all of this, quite honestly, is the idea that "this can't happen" where there are "strict gun control laws". It's just a set up for something like this to happen.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:04:20 PM

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I guess the point I was making was that there are probably many reasonably important buildings in the US that get shot at and the event barely even makes the local news bulletin unless it was a mass panic or many people got shot.

The reason it hit national headlines in Canada is because it is such a rare event that it warranted being broadcast nationally.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:05:49 PM

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Fr,

FD you do love to rail against the US gun laws. So what do you think should be done? Should the US ban gun ownership and send police door to door to gather them up?

_____________________________

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:06:34 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I guess the point I was making was that there are probably many reasonably important buildings in the US that get shot at and the event barely even makes the local news bulletin unless it was a mass panic or many people got shot.

The reason it hit national headlines in Canada is because it is such a rare event that it warranted being broadcast nationally.

And, as usual, you are wrong. Our media likes making gun owners look bad almost as much as yours does.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:13:30 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I guess the point I was making was that there are probably many reasonably important buildings in the US that get shot at and the event barely even makes the local news bulletin unless it was a mass panic or many people got shot.

The reason it hit national headlines in Canada is because it is such a rare event that it warranted being broadcast nationally.

Really????

There was a shooting in the FUCKING CANADIAN CAPITOL. There were members of Parliament locked in their offices, under their desks. I'd say that this is far more than just a "rare shooting" that is broadcast nationally. And, as I think about it, I wonder how many of the gang shootings in southern BC are broadcast nationally...because a shooting is such a "rare event". Answer: none.

I guess if someone had shot the honorary guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns, and had then either he or one of his comrades had gone on to the US Capitol, it wouldn't make the news....

Fact is, this goes SO beyond the issue of gun control that this discussion is just absurd. These are people that WANTED to impact the Canadian government. And, honestly, if they just had 2X4's with nails in them, they would have still tried.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:16:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I guess the point I was making was that there are probably many reasonably important buildings in the US that get shot at and the event barely even makes the local news bulletin unless it was a mass panic or many people got shot.

The reason it hit national headlines in Canada is because it is such a rare event that it warranted being broadcast nationally.

Now confirmed to be a convert to Islam. Just like the other man who used his car a weapon.

Let's tally this up. 2 converts to Islam. 1 gun. 1 car. How about the UK? Converts to Islam stab/hack solider to death. No guns.

What is the one universal here? Islam. Not guns.

Come the day when more and more Muslims engage in random slaughter (the pace is picking up, don't forget France, either, of course or the Ft. Hood "workplace violence" or the beheading in OK), eventually the political correctness will end. Austria is already considering major changes to their laws and looking at banning sharia. Because eventually it will affect ALL of us. Those whom it affects will change their mind. Islam in its predominant form is no better than Nazism. It is a religion of hate, intolerance, and barbarism. It is genocidal. Period.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:16:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
There's no such thing as an "illegal legal gun"...

I didn't say that.

I said (if you read it properly instead of cherry-picking the words), illegal guns or legal guns, illegally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Insofar as buying guns anywhere else...where there is a will, there is a way. Apparently. If someone wants a gun, wherever they live, and want it bad enough, they can get it.

Quite true.
If you can't buy apples where you are but live right next to an unguarded apple orchid - buy them from your neighbour.
It makes perfect logical sense.
That's why I say that the proliferation and ease of buying guns in the US is the cause of some of the gun crimes in Canada - because of the close proximity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
What screams out to me with all of this, quite honestly, is the idea that "this can't happen" where there are "strict gun control laws". It's just a set up for something like this to happen.

Well... generally, it doesn't happen.
At least nowhere near the scale of the US - either in sheer numbers or per capita.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Canadian gun control... - 10/22/2014 4:17:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

And still, some people were able to get guns, storm a government building, and.....

Woosh as the main point goes over way your head.

Next you will be trying to equate one murder with a gun anywhere, against the rate in the US, just to prove guns are fine.

Just like another of our posters does already.

(in reply to jlf1961)

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