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RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/25/2014 5:59:12 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

FR

Why even give Hillary the free advertising?

When President Obama is finished destroying any confidence at all among the American people in the competence of government of tie it's own shoes, much less to tell us how to tie ours, the entire Democrat brand will be dead for a generation.



My confidence in govt. was destroyed by Reagan and I am not alone at all.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/25/2014 6:54:29 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Its like those 'flat tax' ideas that roll around every presidential election from conservatives. How there new 'tax system' is better than the one we currently have. That its a flat 5-14% of one's gross income. There is perhaps 29 different versions, and many times that in second and third tier publications. All of them light on facts, how the mechanics would operate, and whether it would be a better system for the taxpayer and/or the nation as a whole. Conservatives running for office were often 'light on facts' and bit on 'promisese'. Each of the flat taxes to which I could get solid information and numbers from, placed the bottom 95% of Americans at paying 26-49% of their gross income in taxes. And the upper 5%? Well, they will just make that money back next month, so they are all in favor of it. So each of these, like 'trickle down economics' and 'businesses create jobs' is absolute bullshit.

I like the conservatives that demand we should place the dollar on the gold standard again. Notice none of those individuals show a dis-closer of how much of their wealth is tied up in gold? Yeah, those types I love too, since their lying sacks of shit! What would happen to the economy if we did? Would be wrecked within a few months. Would make the Great Depression feel like a tea party....

Again, what 'ideas' and 'thoughts' from conservatives have any merit to the problems this nation is facing? Absolutely none. So why bother voting for them?

14=49 remedial math is in order.
they make it back the next month, that doesn't mean they didn't spend it.
every plan I have seen has the upper income people paying a much larger % of the taxes than they do now.

Bull. Every flat tax scheme is a huge gift to the upper incomes. For instance most such schemes exclude all capital gains from income so the truly wealthy would pay no taxes on their income at all. The sales tax schemes of course are truly regressive since the higher the income the less is spent as a percentage of income etc.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/25/2014 7:09:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Its like those 'flat tax' ideas that roll around every presidential election from conservatives. How there new 'tax system' is better than the one we currently have. That its a flat 5-14% of one's gross income. There is perhaps 29 different versions, and many times that in second and third tier publications. All of them light on facts, how the mechanics would operate, and whether it would be a better system for the taxpayer and/or the nation as a whole. Conservatives running for office were often 'light on facts' and bit on 'promisese'. Each of the flat taxes to which I could get solid information and numbers from, placed the bottom 95% of Americans at paying 26-49% of their gross income in taxes. And the upper 5%? Well, they will just make that money back next month, so they are all in favor of it. So each of these, like 'trickle down economics' and 'businesses create jobs' is absolute bullshit.

I like the conservatives that demand we should place the dollar on the gold standard again. Notice none of those individuals show a dis-closer of how much of their wealth is tied up in gold? Yeah, those types I love too, since their lying sacks of shit! What would happen to the economy if we did? Would be wrecked within a few months. Would make the Great Depression feel like a tea party....

Again, what 'ideas' and 'thoughts' from conservatives have any merit to the problems this nation is facing? Absolutely none. So why bother voting for them?

14=49 remedial math is in order.
they make it back the next month, that doesn't mean they didn't spend it.
every plan I have seen has the upper income people paying a much larger % of the taxes than they do now.

Bull. Every flat tax scheme is a huge gift to the upper incomes. For instance most such schemes exclude all capital gains from income so the truly wealthy would pay no taxes on their income at all. The sales tax schemes of course are truly regressive since the higher the income the less is spent as a percentage of income etc.

Not even remotely true.
The only deductions are for personal deductions for members of your family, thus the more you make the higher percentage you pay.
Example. The Armie plan. 11,500 for the adults and 5,000 per dependent
Family of 4 that is 33,000 in deductions.
Now I realize that this might be hard dor you to follow but if they make 50,00 they pay 15% of 17,000
If they make 100,000 they pay 15% 0f 67,000.
15% of 67,000 is a far greater % of 100,000 than 15% of 17,000 is of 50,000.
This is the type of "flat rate" plan conservatives back.
And it did not exclude capital gains.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 9:57:38 AM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		Hillary may be wrong that business's don't create jobs. However, the trickle down theory hasn't really worked itself out too well either. Explain how the top 45 richest people in the World, have more income than the bottom 3 billion people in the World? In simple terms, 45 people have more say than 3 billion people. That's almost half of the Global population.

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https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 10:03:53 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Hillary may be wrong that business's don't create jobs. However, the trickle down theory hasn't really worked itself out too well either. Explain how the top 45 richest people in the World, have more income than the bottom 3 billion people in the World? In simple terms, 45 people have more say than 3 billion people. That's almost half of the Global population.


That sort of thinking is based on the false premise that wealth is finite, the false premise that if someone earns more than you do it follows that he took it from you, or is somehow preventing you from obtaining such wealth.

It is based on the assumption that wealth is bad or evil, it is based on class warfare (the destroyer of worlds)



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 10:13:45 AM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

People are so shortsighted. Who even cares about "what creates jobs"? Jobs aren't created per sé. Wealth is. It is the distribution of wealth that is interesting. Nothing else.


I disagree, YN. Women with nice tits are quite interesting.



I got a lil ahead of myself there

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 10:18:14 AM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		On topic I don't even understand how someone could accept the "tricke down theory". First of all it's not a theory. Second of all, again ...wealth creation people. If anything there's a trickle-up flow which is potentially negative because hoarding stuff is basically waste in economic terms. "Non-productive assets"

(in reply to YouName)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 11:03:09 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Class warfare in practice

Even with the worlds largest oil reserves as a crutch, poverty reigns.

The idea of government goons seizing citizens' savings and assets may be appealing to some, but it is hardly productive for an economy.









< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/26/2014 11:08:00 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 12:01:45 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		I'm not saying everyone who is weathly is evil and out to do lie, cheat and steal. However, I think it's safe to say that there is a huge number of the 1%, who would like to keep thing's the way the are. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I don't wish for class warfare. But when some of those at the very top have so much influence in politics and social life, then it become's power and control. Luckily, I can think my way beyond just Fox news and beyond the thinking of our American way of life. Hard work doesn't always equal the house on the water, big cars and the white picket fence. Explain to me how people who have worked hard for the same company for 30 year's, get left with nothing but a small pension and the company heads over to China for cheap labor? Income isn't alway's earned, either. Some become rich because their family was rich and passed through the family. And other do scam and rip-off people and then they go over to the Cayman Island's.

I also know a few descent people who do have money and are very friendly. I have family that is like that. I do know however, that money doesn't alway's equal happiness. That part is a fact. I'm not personally jealous of those who have large incomes. Because I might well not like members of my own family. Some, have worked their way up the ranks in life and truly did achieve the so called "American Dream". However, is that same logic going to apply in todays economy? Maybe for a few, but certainly not many.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

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https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 1:14:34 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		Never mind that last comment section. It's election year and I'm not to going to keep silent on what I believe.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 10/26/2014 1:33:50 PM >

_____________________________

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https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 1:21:16 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

FR

Why even give Hillary the free advertising?

When President Obama is finished destroying any confidence at all among the American people in the competence of government of tie it's own shoes, much less to tell us how to tie ours, the entire Democrat brand will be dead for a generation.



I'll remember you said that when Hillary is sitting in the Oval Office...and I'll be sure to remind you of it.....often.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/26/2014 1:32:14 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		Never mind about staying out of politics. On this one. I know I am hoping Hillary run's for President in 2016 because I will certainly vote for her. Back in 2008, when it was Obama and Hillary running against each other, I was for Obama. This time, I am going to stick with Hillary all the way to the end. She would make a great President.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 8:26:47 AM   
hot4bondage


Posts: 403
Joined: 7/29/2009
Status: offline 		I think this quote was more entertaining...

"I remember landing under sniper fire."--Hillary Clinton, 1996

She tried to walk it back by saying it was a long day. The quote was made around 9AM.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 8:43:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Hillary may be wrong that business's don't create jobs. However, the trickle down theory hasn't really worked itself out too well either. Explain how the top 45 richest people in the World, have more income than the bottom 3 billion people in the World? In simple terms, 45 people have more say than 3 billion people. That's almost half of the Global population.


That sort of thinking is based on the false premise that wealth is finite, the false premise that if someone earns more than you do it follows that he took it from you, or is somehow preventing you from obtaining such wealth.

It is based on the assumption that wealth is bad or evil, it is based on class warfare (the destroyer of worlds)



You are correct that wealth is not finite, and that it's not necessarily a zero sum game, except in the snapshot of any particular moment.

That acknowledged, your list of assumptions don't at all jive with what he said. Over time (and it's been 33 years now), policies favoring the wealthy have not yielded trickle-down results -- in fact, the opposite is true: wealth stratification is wider than ever, beginning with the introduction of trickle-down approaches and continuing.

What's clear is that the middle and lower classes are not growing -- when previously they were. That's a long term economic problem, as over 60% of the economy is consumption. Henry Ford got it right -- make sure the employees can afford your product.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 9:29:29 AM   
bossman777


Posts: 65
Joined: 11/25/2011
Status: offline 		Mr. Sanity, I don't know why you try to reason with the morons on this sex site about politics. Some here actually believe businesses don't create jobs... Anyone who could believe that is clearly out of touch with reality. I'll give a very simple example: I've been self employed for almost 30 years. My business provides at least one job: mine (plus a few others for people I've hired now and then).

I just want you to know that some here find your comments insightful and thoughtful. Keep it up.

History proves you're spot on with your original post. The endgame with socialists/communists/fascists is always the same: slavery, poverty, and death. Everytime and everywhere it's been tried. Unfortunately too many people, like in this thread, have no ability to match the rhetoric they hear--which sounds good--to the reality it brings later. They haven't studied history enough.
The only point I would add is this: the *only* time in human history where a society accumulated massive wealth, productivity, a huge middle class, and maximum individual freedom--was here in the USA prior to socialist policies taking dominance in the 1930's. It's clear to me from this experience, and should be to everyone, that the recipe for prosperity is only consistent with individual liberty. No government will ever deliver that kind of prosperity; only individuals left alone to pursue their own dreams will.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 9:51:43 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Of course you are demonstrably full of shit, the both of you.

I give you, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark.

Nutsuckers should slobber silently instead of saying the stupid factless shit they do.

And while you are at it, China is handing us our ass, economically.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 9:59:13 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

She tried to walk it back by saying it was a long day. The quote was made around 9AM.

I've had days that were long by 9 a.m.

That said, it was a daffy claim on her part.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to hot4bondage)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 10:57:04 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

She tried to walk it back by saying it was a long day. The quote was made around 9AM.

I've had days that were long by 9 a.m.

That said, it was a daffy claim on her part.

It was a lie, told to make her look tough.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 3:16:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Its like those 'flat tax' ideas that roll around every presidential election from conservatives. How there new 'tax system' is better than the one we currently have. That its a flat 5-14% of one's gross income. There is perhaps 29 different versions, and many times that in second and third tier publications. All of them light on facts, how the mechanics would operate, and whether it would be a better system for the taxpayer and/or the nation as a whole. Conservatives running for office were often 'light on facts' and bit on 'promisese'. Each of the flat taxes to which I could get solid information and numbers from, placed the bottom 95% of Americans at paying 26-49% of their gross income in taxes. And the upper 5%? Well, they will just make that money back next month, so they are all in favor of it. So each of these, like 'trickle down economics' and 'businesses create jobs' is absolute bullshit.

I like the conservatives that demand we should place the dollar on the gold standard again. Notice none of those individuals show a dis-closer of how much of their wealth is tied up in gold? Yeah, those types I love too, since their lying sacks of shit! What would happen to the economy if we did? Would be wrecked within a few months. Would make the Great Depression feel like a tea party....

Again, what 'ideas' and 'thoughts' from conservatives have any merit to the problems this nation is facing? Absolutely none. So why bother voting for them?

14=49 remedial math is in order.
they make it back the next month, that doesn't mean they didn't spend it.
every plan I have seen has the upper income people paying a much larger % of the taxes than they do now.

Bull. Every flat tax scheme is a huge gift to the upper incomes. For instance most such schemes exclude all capital gains from income so the truly wealthy would pay no taxes on their income at all. The sales tax schemes of course are truly regressive since the higher the income the less is spent as a percentage of income etc.

Not even remotely true.
The only deductions are for personal deductions for members of your family, thus the more you make the higher percentage you pay.
Example. The Armie plan. 11,500 for the adults and 5,000 per dependent
Family of 4 that is 33,000 in deductions.
Now I realize that this might be hard dor you to follow but if they make 50,00 they pay 15% of 17,000
If they make 100,000 they pay 15% 0f 67,000.
15% of 67,000 is a far greater % of 100,000 than 15% of 17,000 is of 50,000.
This is the type of "flat rate" plan conservatives back.
And it did not exclude capital gains.

The Armey plan? That one excludes all capital gains. So its a nice big gift to the wealthy. Try not to get suckered in by that sort of stuff.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 10/27/2014 3:37:35 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		FR

Clinton is trying to out Warren Warren.

You guys kill me, you really think she's for the little guy? She's worth over 15 million dollars... Which is pretty amazing for a socialist Academic.

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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