quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Clinton is trying to out Warren Warren.

You guys kill me, you really think she's for the little guy? She's worth over 15 million dollars... Which is pretty amazing for a socialist Academic.

quote:

And she claims to be broke.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Its like those 'flat tax' ideas that roll around every presidential election from conservatives. How there new 'tax system' is better than the one we currently have. That its a flat 5-14% of one's gross income. There is perhaps 29 different versions, and many times that in second and third tier publications. All of them light on facts, how the mechanics would operate, and whether it would be a better system for the taxpayer and/or the nation as a whole. Conservatives running for office were often 'light on facts' and bit on 'promisese'. Each of the flat taxes to which I could get solid information and numbers from, placed the bottom 95% of Americans at paying 26-49% of their gross income in taxes. And the upper 5%? Well, they will just make that money back next month, so they are all in favor of it. So each of these, like 'trickle down economics' and 'businesses create jobs' is absolute bullshit.

I like the conservatives that demand we should place the dollar on the gold standard again. Notice none of those individuals show a dis-closer of how much of their wealth is tied up in gold? Yeah, those types I love too, since their lying sacks of shit! What would happen to the economy if we did? Would be wrecked within a few months. Would make the Great Depression feel like a tea party....

Again, what 'ideas' and 'thoughts' from conservatives have any merit to the problems this nation is facing? Absolutely none. So why bother voting for them?

14=49 remedial math is in order.
they make it back the next month, that doesn't mean they didn't spend it.
every plan I have seen has the upper income people paying a much larger % of the taxes than they do now.

Bull. Every flat tax scheme is a huge gift to the upper incomes. For instance most such schemes exclude all capital gains from income so the truly wealthy would pay no taxes on their income at all. The sales tax schemes of course are truly regressive since the higher the income the less is spent as a percentage of income etc.

Not even remotely true.
The only deductions are for personal deductions for members of your family, thus the more you make the higher percentage you pay.
Example. The Armie plan. 11,500 for the adults and 5,000 per dependent
Family of 4 that is 33,000 in deductions.
Now I realize that this might be hard dor you to follow but if they make 50,00 they pay 15% of 17,000
If they make 100,000 they pay 15% 0f 67,000.
15% of 67,000 is a far greater % of 100,000 than 15% of 17,000 is of 50,000.
This is the type of "flat rate" plan conservatives back.
And it did not exclude capital gains.

The Armey plan? That one excludes all capital gains. So its a nice big gift to the wealthy. Try not to get suckered in by that sort of stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

And she claims to be broke.

Really? Where did she say that?

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

And she claims to be broke.

Really? Where did she say that?

Well, well, fancy that. I didn't bother to google it, because it's only American politics, after all, and nobody cares about that.
The great Google knows all

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You do know that taxing capital gains is double taxation don't you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

Mr. Sanity, I don't know why you try to reason with the morons on this sex site about politics. Some here actually believe businesses don't create jobs... Anyone who could believe that is clearly out of touch with reality. I'll give a very simple example: I've been self employed for almost 30 years. My business provides at least one job: mine (plus a few others for people I've hired now and then).

I just want you to know that some here find your comments insightful and thoughtful. Keep it up.

History proves you're spot on with your original post. The endgame with socialists/communists/fascists is always the same: slavery, poverty, and death. Everytime and everywhere it's been tried. Unfortunately too many people, like in this thread, have no ability to match the rhetoric they hear--which sounds good--to the reality it brings later. They haven't studied history enough.
The only point I would add is this: the *only* time in human history where a society accumulated massive wealth, productivity, a huge middle class, and maximum individual freedom--was here in the USA prior to socialist policies taking dominance in the 1930's. It's clear to me from this experience, and should be to everyone, that the recipe for prosperity is only consistent with individual liberty. No government will ever deliver that kind of prosperity; only individuals left alone to pursue their own dreams will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Its like those 'flat tax' ideas that roll around every presidential election from conservatives. How there new 'tax system' is better than the one we currently have. That its a flat 5-14% of one's gross income. There is perhaps 29 different versions, and many times that in second and third tier publications. All of them light on facts, how the mechanics would operate, and whether it would be a better system for the taxpayer and/or the nation as a whole. Conservatives running for office were often 'light on facts' and bit on 'promisese'. Each of the flat taxes to which I could get solid information and numbers from, placed the bottom 95% of Americans at paying 26-49% of their gross income in taxes. And the upper 5%? Well, they will just make that money back next month, so they are all in favor of it. So each of these, like 'trickle down economics' and 'businesses create jobs' is absolute bullshit.

I like the conservatives that demand we should place the dollar on the gold standard again. Notice none of those individuals show a dis-closer of how much of their wealth is tied up in gold? Yeah, those types I love too, since their lying sacks of shit! What would happen to the economy if we did? Would be wrecked within a few months. Would make the Great Depression feel like a tea party....

Again, what 'ideas' and 'thoughts' from conservatives have any merit to the problems this nation is facing? Absolutely none. So why bother voting for them?

14=49 remedial math is in order.
they make it back the next month, that doesn't mean they didn't spend it.
every plan I have seen has the upper income people paying a much larger % of the taxes than they do now.

Bull. Every flat tax scheme is a huge gift to the upper incomes. For instance most such schemes exclude all capital gains from income so the truly wealthy would pay no taxes on their income at all. The sales tax schemes of course are truly regressive since the higher the income the less is spent as a percentage of income etc.

Not even remotely true.
The only deductions are for personal deductions for members of your family, thus the more you make the higher percentage you pay.
Example. The Armie plan. 11,500 for the adults and 5,000 per dependent
Family of 4 that is 33,000 in deductions.
Now I realize that this might be hard dor you to follow but if they make 50,00 they pay 15% of 17,000
If they make 100,000 they pay 15% 0f 67,000.
15% of 67,000 is a far greater % of 100,000 than 15% of 17,000 is of 50,000.
This is the type of "flat rate" plan conservatives back.
And it did not exclude capital gains.

The Armey plan? That one excludes all capital gains. So its a nice big gift to the wealthy. Try not to get suckered in by that sort of stuff.

You do know that taxing capital gains is double taxation don't you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


You do know that taxing capital gains is double taxation don't you.

Nope. That is a lie fed to you by the people who are stealing from you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Clinton is trying to out Warren Warren.

You guys kill me, you really think she's for the little guy? She's worth over 15 million dollars... Which is pretty amazing for a socialist Academic.

And she claims to be broke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

Mr. Sanity, I don't know why you try to reason with the morons on this sex site about politics. Some here actually believe businesses don't create jobs... Anyone who could believe that is clearly out of touch with reality. I'll give a very simple example: I've been self employed for almost 30 years. My business provides at least one job: mine (plus a few others for people I've hired now and then).

I just want you to know that some here find your comments insightful and thoughtful. Keep it up.

History proves you're spot on with your original post. The endgame with socialists/communists/fascists is always the same: slavery, poverty, and death. Everytime and everywhere it's been tried. Unfortunately too many people, like in this thread, have no ability to match the rhetoric they hear--which sounds good--to the reality it brings later. They haven't studied history enough.
The only point I would add is this: the *only* time in human history where a society accumulated massive wealth, productivity, a huge middle class, and maximum individual freedom--was here in the USA prior to socialist policies taking dominance in the 1930's. It's clear to me from this experience, and should be to everyone, that the recipe for prosperity is only consistent with individual liberty. No government will ever deliver that kind of prosperity; only individuals left alone to pursue their own dreams will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Its like those 'flat tax' ideas that roll around every presidential election from conservatives. How there new 'tax system' is better than the one we currently have. That its a flat 5-14% of one's gross income. There is perhaps 29 different versions, and many times that in second and third tier publications. All of them light on facts, how the mechanics would operate, and whether it would be a better system for the taxpayer and/or the nation as a whole. Conservatives running for office were often 'light on facts' and bit on 'promisese'. Each of the flat taxes to which I could get solid information and numbers from, placed the bottom 95% of Americans at paying 26-49% of their gross income in taxes. And the upper 5%? Well, they will just make that money back next month, so they are all in favor of it. So each of these, like 'trickle down economics' and 'businesses create jobs' is absolute bullshit.

I like the conservatives that demand we should place the dollar on the gold standard again. Notice none of those individuals show a dis-closer of how much of their wealth is tied up in gold? Yeah, those types I love too, since their lying sacks of shit! What would happen to the economy if we did? Would be wrecked within a few months. Would make the Great Depression feel like a tea party....

Again, what 'ideas' and 'thoughts' from conservatives have any merit to the problems this nation is facing? Absolutely none. So why bother voting for them?

14=49 remedial math is in order.
they make it back the next month, that doesn't mean they didn't spend it.
every plan I have seen has the upper income people paying a much larger % of the taxes than they do now.

Bull. Every flat tax scheme is a huge gift to the upper incomes. For instance most such schemes exclude all capital gains from income so the truly wealthy would pay no taxes on their income at all. The sales tax schemes of course are truly regressive since the higher the income the less is spent as a percentage of income etc.

Not even remotely true.
The only deductions are for personal deductions for members of your family, thus the more you make the higher percentage you pay.
Example. The Armie plan. 11,500 for the adults and 5,000 per dependent
Family of 4 that is 33,000 in deductions.
Now I realize that this might be hard dor you to follow but if they make 50,00 they pay 15% of 17,000
If they make 100,000 they pay 15% 0f 67,000.
15% of 67,000 is a far greater % of 100,000 than 15% of 17,000 is of 50,000.
This is the type of "flat rate" plan conservatives back.
And it did not exclude capital gains.

The Armey plan? That one excludes all capital gains. So its a nice big gift to the wealthy. Try not to get suckered in by that sort of stuff.

You do know that taxing capital gains is double taxation don't you.

Nope. That is a lie fed to you by the people who are stealing from you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Capital gains are a division of profits, after taxes, so the money returned to investors has already been taxed. That should be simple enough for even you to understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


I think the phrase that "business creates jobs" is a bit of a misnomer and doesn't accurately describe the actual process which takes place. It's more of a tired-out slogan that the Reaganites used to peddle - but aren't finding as many zealous devotees as they once did. As the Cold War generation ages and dies out, there will probably less and less of those kinds of slogans and the ideas they represent. Their rhetoric has already become stale and fossilized.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Capital gains are a division of profits, after taxes, so the money returned to investors has already been taxed. That should be simple enough for even you to understand.

Wrong as always.

Capital gains are just another form of income. In many cases they are the direct product of the persons labor and should therefor be treated exactly like any other income (so called carried interest for instance).