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Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 1:06:07 PM

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Have you ever lowered your standards for a relationship or a casual kinky encounter with a person who was clearly mentally unstable just because they were intensely, wildly kinky, or had amazing toys and skill, and pushed all the right buttons? And then you got sucked in, and it got more and more serious, and then before you knew it you were wrapped up in an inescapable pseudo relationship with a mentally unstable person who was kink-personified but mentally unhinged?

How did you dis-entangle yourself?

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 1:12:17 PM

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Never stick your dick in crazy.

Have I played with some mentally ill people? Probably, but if you're coming off like Norman Bates, it's not happening.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 1:19:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Have you ever lowered your standards for a relationship or a casual kinky encounter with a person who was clearly mentally unstable just because they were intensely, wildly kinky, or had amazing toys and skill, and pushed all the right buttons? And then you got sucked in, and it got more and more serious, and then before you knew it you were wrapped up in an inescapable pseudo relationship with a mentally unstable person who was kink-personified but mentally unhinged?

How did you dis-entangle yourself?

I have a maybe-tangential point, but it came up in a thread I was on a few weeks ago, and you might appreciate it.

Historically, the use of the term "limits" was for play negotiation between people who had not met before, and who might never meet again. "I can beat your ass but I can't kiss you on the lips because only your boyfriend does that? Okay, cool, let's do it." The term "hard limit," in particular, has been co-opted by people with mental issues who are looking for relationships. This leads to community pressure to accept, and enter into, inferior relationships.

In the first place, saying "the way I think and feel about X is a hard limit for all time" is almost always an unhealthy behavior. People should be changing and growing, becoming healthier versions of themselves. Just because X is a PTSD trigger today does not mean it always has to be. Or, alternatively, if what you really mean to say is that "I don't like X" or "I find X inconvenient" then what you're really saying is, "I don't want to trouble myself by doing things that are hard."

So we end up with a mainstream BDSM community that is "inclusive," meaning that, in the name of respecting limits, ironically it is looked down upon to have certain kinds of boundaries. You won't date someone who looks a certain way, or who takes antidepressants? You're an asshole/bitch who doesn't understand the progressive inclusiveness of kink. This leads to a pressure to settle, to lower standards, and you might have given into that. Or talked yourself into it because your vag was itching.

My advice? Buy him a nice parting gift with a hand-written card saying thanks for everything and this is the end, then block him on all media. Expect some mild stalking for 6 to 12 months, so the blocking (and documenting any future contact without response) is important.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 4:00:46 PM

LittleGirlHeart

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No.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 4:13:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Have you ever lowered your standards for a relationship or a casual kinky encounter with a person who was clearly mentally unstable....

I would seriously like to think that if it was obvious that they were 'mentally unstable' or 'unhinged' in any way, I wouldn't entertain any idea of playing with them at all... not even just once, for fun.

So no, I wouldn't lower my standards... ever!

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
And then you got sucked in...

Wouldn't happen.
I would like to think I'm a tad more perspicacious than that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
How did you dis-entangle yourself?

Don't get entangled with them in the first place??

If you really ended up in such a silly situation, I'd dump them like a hot potato. Seriously.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 4:25:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Have you ever lowered your standards for a relationship or a casual kinky encounter with a person who was clearly mentally unstable just because they were intensely, wildly kinky, or had amazing toys and skill, and pushed all the right buttons?

No, that sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen.

And cue train wreck....

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
And then you got sucked in, and it got more and more serious, and then before you knew it you were wrapped up in an inescapable pseudo relationship with a mentally unstable person who was kink-personified but mentally unhinged?

How did you dis-entangle yourself?

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 5:29:30 PM

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Anytime I hear someone describe someone else as mentally unstable I wonder what their definition of mentally unstable is. Because to me people who are intolerant of others and judgemental are mentally unstable.

the mind adapts to it's environment, if someone is "crazy" than it is because their world is that way. I dont try very much anymore to be around people with different brain damage than me. It's impossible to try to communicate with people that came from a completely different environment. But never saw that as settling, I still learned from all the attempts. And im probably one of the only people in the world that doesn't have set standards, anyone can be interested as long as there is something new to learn from it.

(in reply to GotSteel)

RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/25/2014 5:33:07 PM

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I like the edge. Sometimes it's harder to identify crazy when what you are both doing is considered crazy in the first place. I don't think I lowered my standards but I have unknowingly hooked into a few fruit bats in my day. And I confess, the crazy ones can be so much fun, sometimes I was slow to let go. So I empathize with you.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 1:15:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
The term "hard limit," in particular, has been co-opted by people with mental issues who are looking for relationships.

And by people, obviously, who have limits.

quote:

This leads to community pressure to accept, and enter into, inferior relationships.

So my relationship is 'inferior' because I choose not to do scat play, or vomit play? How interesting because, you see, I thought my relationship was *superior* because it is the one that suits me better than any other relationship. Damn it! I keep making that mistake between happiness and inferiority. I must try harder to be miserable so that my relationship can be superior.

quote:

In the first place, saying "the way I think and feel about X is a hard limit for all time" is almost always an unhealthy behavior.

Yes, exactly, this is why it's a much better idea to claim that you have no idea about anything and then hop wildly from one thing to another just to avoid making any claims to preferring particular things or people that you might want to make a commitment to. Because hey, marrying someone you hope to love for all time - unhealthy, right? Assuming that you might be gay for the rest of your life - unhealthy, right? Planning to have children because you think you'll be a good parent for the rest of your life - unhealthy right? Damnit, who knew that commitment, planning and self-awareness could be so unhealthy?!

quote:

Just because X is a PTSD trigger today does not mean it always has to be. Or, alternatively, if what you really mean to say is that "I don't like X" or "I find X inconvenient" then what you're really saying is, "I don't want to trouble myself by doing things that are hard."

Right, yes, because if your BDSM relationship isn't one long nightmare PTSD trigger then you're not doing it right. God forbid we have fun or enjoy ourselves or anything like that.

quote:

So we end up with a mainstream BDSM community that is "inclusive," meaning that, in the name of respecting limits, ironically it is looked down upon to have certain kinds of boundaries.

You mean like how you're telling us that only people with mental disorders have limits and that limits are unhealthy, immature and the sign of a lazy person?

Okay I get it - limits are bad, m'kay kids? *face palm*

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 2:04:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

I like the edge. Sometimes it's harder to identify crazy when what you are both doing is considered crazy in the first place. I don't think I lowered my standards but I have unknowingly hooked into a few fruit bats in my day. And I confess, the crazy ones can be so much fun, sometimes I was slow to let go. So I empathize with you.

Why am I not surprised by the red-lined sentence?

Honestly AAkasha, if you have detected signs that a person is mentally unstable, why would you go near him with a 10-foot pole?
BDSM isn't therapy. D/s isn't therapy. Not only that, but I would consider it unethical to get involved with anybody with any form of diminished capacity where s/he is not in a position to make fully informed consent judgment calls.
Would you play around with a chemistry set and have a combustible chemical blow up in your face?
Has life become so dull that you are looking for somebody to entertain you? Because this is what I used to say to an ex-fiancé of mine whenever he would grumble that he was bored. Would you like me to do cartwheels for you? Because my job isn't to keep you entertained. Get a hobby. (To do by yourself)
Boredom isn't in my vocabulary for all intents & purposes. But that's because I'm more of an introvert and can keep myself occupied and entertained without depending on other persons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Have you ever lowered your standards for a relationship or a casual kinky encounter with a person who was clearly mentally unstable....

I would seriously like to think that if it was obvious that they were 'mentally unstable' or 'unhinged' in any way, I wouldn't entertain any idea of playing with them at all... not even just once, for fun.

So no, I wouldn't lower my standards... ever!

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
And then you got sucked in...

Wouldn't happen.
I would like to think I'm a tad more perspicacious than that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
How did you dis-entangle yourself?

Don't get entangled with them in the first place??

If you really ended up in such a silly situation, I'd dump them like a hot potato. Seriously.

^Some good advice here.^

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 2:10:47 AM

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It depends how well I already know that person. My best friend has bi-polar but she isn't on a high or low all of the time, in fact its fairly rare. She's such a fun, loving and entertaining person when she's on the level. Because of her illness she's learnt to manage stress better than most. She absolutely knows when to ask for help. Would I play with her? Hell yes, I have many times. Would I get into a long term relationship with her? If circumstances were different then likely I would. She controls her bi-polar and so she's in charge of it. Her bi polar isn't all of her, just a small part.

Meeting someone with depression puts up red flags because its impossible to see beyond that depression. Knowing someone who sometimes suffers depression is a very different bag.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 5:10:06 AM

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My history is more of becoming involved with someone and the insanity being brought out a millimeter at a time.
Then realizing you are about to be dead of you don't get the fuck out.

Legal action in progress to get the crazy out of my house. Just before the drop dead date with sheriff showing up to toss them; she got herself murdered.
I find I have less tolerance for "crazy" any more.

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 6:13:59 AM

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Ha. Yes I did that. First the person misrepresented their self. Not looks wise but intent. He was so good looking though the attraction was intense to say the least. It was all very exciting at first. The incompatibility and the differences though killed the attraction after awhile. The two of us together was like a visit to the mental ward for me after each encounter. I found the easiest way for me was to let it run it's crazy course because it was very hard to cold turkey it for me. Finally I lost desire, no matter how attracted I was, the crazy was not worth it. I yelled I screamed I shadow boxed I left nasty messages until it was out of my system. Was it mature? Heck no. But I did what worked for me.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 7:48:16 AM

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I think this lifestyle attracts plenty of Blanche Wittmann types. Perhaps I'm the suspicious type but HPD seems to be fairly rife on the scene.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 7:54:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I think this lifestyle attracts plenty of Blanche Wittmann types. Perhaps I'm the suspicious type but HPD seems to be fairly rife on the scene.

This lifestyle not only attracts Drama Queens of both genders, but the theatrics doesn't end there with those (not saying all) kinky BDSM Tops and bottoms who roleplay D/s but have no concept of what D/s dynamics are genuinely about.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 9:48:52 AM

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Severe mental illness where the person may not always know the difference between what is real or not?
Nope, not if I was aware of it, I would never get involved.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 9:59:21 AM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

It depends how well I already know that person. My best friend has bi-polar but she isn't on a high or low all of the time, in fact its fairly rare. She's such a fun, loving and entertaining person when she's on the level. Because of her illness she's learnt to manage stress better than most. She absolutely knows when to ask for help. Would I play with her? Hell yes, I have many times. Would I get into a long term relationship with her? If circumstances were different then likely I would. She controls her bi-polar and so she's in charge of it. Her bi polar isn't all of her, just a small part.

Some people with mental illness are sicker than others, even those in treatment. I have seen people with bi-polar that you would have absolutely no idea they had an illness. I have also known people with bi-polar who can change from high to low in a matter of an hour or two.

quote:

Meeting someone with depression puts up red flags because its impossible to see beyond that depression. Knowing someone who sometimes suffers depression is a very different bag.

Why? What makes someone with depression so different than your friend with bi-polar? I've suffered from depression all of my life, I am articulate, talk about it with those around me, seek support when I need it, and I am in active treatment. It is fucking difficult to live with and tough on people around you, but it is no different than other mental illnesses. I try to make it easier on those around me by letting them know when my symptoms are bad, or letting them know that I am generally down. My relationship with my slut is a good one too because she understands that part of me and accepts it... and I told her about my illness within a day of writing to her... why hide it when it is going to become obvious anyway. Like your friend, my illness is a part of me, but it is not who I am.

You cannot make the distinction that one mental illness is better or worse than another, because it isn't. Some people can manage their symptoms better than others, some are able to talk freely about it, some are even able to handle their illness so it doesn't rule their lives, others might not be so lucky.

Please be careful when making blanket statements about something like this, it is a generalization that is not necessary, or true.

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(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 11:25:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Meeting someone with depression puts up red flags because its impossible to see beyond that depression. Knowing someone who sometimes suffers depression is a very different bag.

Why? What makes someone with depression so different than your friend with bi-polar? I've suffered from depression all of my life, I am articulate, talk about it with those around me, seek support when I need it, and I am in active treatment. It is fucking difficult to live with and tough on people around you, but it is no different than other mental illnesses. I try to make it easier on those around me by letting them know when my symptoms are bad, or letting them know that I am generally down. My relationship with my slut is a good one too because she understands that part of me and accepts it... and I told her about my illness within a day of writing to her... why hide it when it is going to become obvious anyway. Like your friend, my illness is a part of me, but it is not who I am.

You cannot make the distinction that one mental illness is better or worse than another, because it isn't. Some people can manage their symptoms better than others, some are able to talk freely about it, some are even able to handle their illness so it doesn't rule their lives, others might not be so lucky.

Please be careful when making blanket statements about something like this, it is a generalization that is not necessary, or true.

You completely misunderstood what I said or maybe I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again.

When you know someone well, you are far more likely to be accepting of their depression than if you meet someone for the first time who is depressed. When you are first introduced to someone who is clearly depressed, its far harder to see beyond their depression. In other words, their depression is all of them. When you know someone who gets depressed from time to time, you see beyond that depression. You see the person underneath... the fun person, the intellectual, the deep thoughtful an considerate person.

Bi-Polar includes the deepest darkest depression (obviously to different degrees) and it also includes manic periods (again to different degrees). I first met my friend when she was going through a very balanced period. What I saw was a fun loving person with a good heart. I hate to say it but if I'd initially met her when she was going through a period of doom and gloom, I probably wouldn't of had the good fortune to have such a great person in my life because all I would of seen was doom and gloom and not all the great bits in between.

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 11:28:54 AM

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quote:

Have you ever lowered your standards for a relationship or a casual kinky encounter with a person who was clearly mentally unstable just because they were intensely, wildly kinky, or had amazing toys and skill, and pushed all the right buttons?

Sure.
I was in a relationship with him for almost 15yrs before he passed away.
Of course, his 'mental instability' fueled mine so we were a perfect match

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RE: Tolerating mental instability to get your freak on - 10/26/2014 12:20:37 PM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

You completely misunderstood what I said or maybe I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again.

I think it was a clarity problem.

quote:

When you know someone well, you are far more likely to be accepting of their depression than if you meet someone for the first time who is depressed. When you are first introduced to someone who is clearly depressed, its far harder to see beyond their depression. In other words, their depression is all of them. When you know someone who gets depressed from time to time, you see beyond that depression. You see the person underneath... the fun person, the intellectual, the deep thoughtful an considerate person.

What I do not understand is the statement: When you know someone well, you are far more likely to be accepting of their depression than if you meet someone for the first time who is depressed. You are talking about people dealing with an illness. Why is depression so different than, say, cancer? Why is it easier to accept that someone you know has depression than it is someone you do not know? The person you don't know that suffers from depression is a person and deserving of people to do their best to see past the illness to the person they really are. I am a musician, one of my bandmates told someone trying out for our band that I had depression and anxiety problems. The guy we were auditioning treated me differently than he did the rest of the band. When we were on break, he said something about my illness to me, and I told him that if all he saw was my illness, then it is his loss. Maybe I am a bit sensitive to this kind of stigmatic reaction, but mental illness is not who these people are, it is what they suffer from.

quote:

Bi-Polar includes the deepest darkest depression (obviously to different degrees) and it also includes manic periods (again to different degrees). I first met my friend when she was going through a very balanced period. What I saw was a fun loving person with a good heart. I hate to say it but if I'd initially met her when she was going through a period of doom and gloom, I probably wouldn't of had the good fortune to have such a great person in my life because all I would of seen was doom and gloom and not all the great bits in between.

That is exactly what I am talking about. You see the illness first and not the person... don't worry, you aren't alone, many in the business of treating people with mental illness do the exact same thing, they treat the illness and care little for the person underneath all of the symptoms. I do understand your point a bit better, but I am struggling terribly with how you are differentiating mental illness in people that you know vs. people that you do not know. They deserve a chance just like anyone and while you may not want to involve yourself with someone displaying symptoms of mental illness, they are still people with feelings, hopes, dreams and fears just like you.

Think about what you said about your friend... had she been in the throes of a depressive episode, you would have judged her based on that and cheated yourself out of a great friend. Shame on you for that.

Look, maybe I am being harsh on you because of my own dealings with people who have done what you described here, and I hope you understand that it is not meant with malice or anger, I just believe that your perspective needs an adjustment. When I had my breakdown many years ago, all I was was one big, huge depressed mess, I was difficult to be around and people treated me so differently because of it, when all I wanted to do is be treated like the person I am. I didn't want to be treated differently because of my illness because all that would serve to do is reenforce my depression, and remind me that I was struggling... I needed someone to see me, because I felt as if I was drowning and slipping away... and I needed people to reach out and treat me with the dignity that I deserved.

Maybe I am making more of this than I should... it just touched a nerve. My apology if I upset you.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to MariaB)

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