RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to LGH re: her food issues?

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RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:05:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

I do not see how over eating has wronged or hurt anyone else, but yourself. Unless of course you ate all their food, or your eating raises their food costs.

The oa follows that make amends policy as part of the 12 steps.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Michael's correct that most people do a fourth step composed of solely negative things. Because you have to admit how you've wronged others before you can attempt to make amends. But when someone gets to doing a positive fourth step, that's an incredibly powerful thing.

Well if it's someone who really cares about you, it's going to hurt them the same way watching someone you love drink them selves to death hurts. They probably don't want to sit around and watch you struggle with all the bs that goes along with overeating. So yes you are hurting more than just yourself. And don't tell me this isn't a problem for you or you would not have mentioned it in a post.

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RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 11:43:03 AM

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From: Saint Pete,FL
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I think when it comes to doing a 4th step. it is important to note not just the negative but also the positive traits as well. This way is balances the scales. If someone only see's the worst of their traits, its no wonder so many go back out. To also realize the positive, can show someone that they are not all "bad", but have some good traits to contribute to as well.

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RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 2:19:10 PM

Gauge

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Here is an excerpt from the book I am writing on addiction and sobriety:

The Struggle With A “Higher Power”

There are a lot of people that struggle with the concept of a “Higher Power” and trying to identify that in relationship to their sobriety. I am not about to get religious or espouse any type of rhetoric regarding the existence or non-existence of God. No matter what your belief system is, suffice it to say that if you find yourself struggling to identify a “Higher Power” in order to continue working on your sobriety, knock it off. Whatever you believe or don't believe really doesn't need to become a stumbling block for you. Look, if you cannot believe in yourself and your own will then you are going to have some problems maintaining your sobriety. If you made a choice then it is up to you to stick to it, and no one else. No one else can do this for you, and frankly, no one else is going to make it easier for you. While reading this book will give you a lot of tools to work with, you are the one that ultimately controls the success or failure of your sobriety.

There is no religion in the world that does not identify the fact that people have a choice and a will to follow or not to follow whatever the teachings happen to be. Oddly enough, this means that you are in control of yourself and that your choices and will have a great deal of power. Even if you are having difficulty believing in yourself and your ability to stay sober, you still made a choice to get sober, so use that choice as your foundation. Believe in your choice if you cannot believe in yourself and if you just get stubborn about your choice, you will begin to believe that you can do this.

Belief in a “Higher Power” is fine, but it should never become a problem that impedes your journey in sobriety. If you do believe in a “Higher Power” then bear in mind that the God of your understanding is not going to magically take away all of the stumbling blocks and pitfalls that will happen to you; your choices and will are just as important as they ever were. Whatever strength you can get from your belief certainly will not hurt you.

**********************************************************************************************

The following is the 12 steps from AA. Put food in there or whatever your problem... the revisions are obviously mine:

THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

Simply put, my life was a train wreck with my drinking. Notice that the "powerless" part is referenced in the past tense. "We were powerless" says that we have power now.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

A power greater than ourselves can be whatever we want it to be. That can even be yourself.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

Key words are "As we understood Him" If you don't believe in a god, then so what? Want to keep using this excuse to not get sober? If it doesn't apply, ignore it. I would write this phrase: Made a decision to turn our lives over to our choice to get sober.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

Self explanatory. In other words, grow up, look in the mirror and if you don't like what you see... good. Change it.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Omit the God thing, and another human being... although others like you can help.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

Yeah well, guess what... God won't remove shit, we have to. This isn't fucking magic. God, for those that believe can help, but he isn't going to do the heavy lifting.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

See above. We have shortcomings, admit them and change them. Stop fucking around.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

Yeah well... I never liked this part either. Apologize where you see fit, but the biggest person you need to make amends to is yourself.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

OK, see above.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

In other words, be honest if you fuck up. Pretty simple.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

Remember if your god is going to be your choice, then you think about your choice and make it a living part of you.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Spiritual awakening... pshaw. I'm going to help others, and make sure I don't shit the bed in my own life in the process.

********************************************************************************

My advice:

Stop fucking around. Either you want to stop the eating problem or you don't. It is that simple and easy. Whatever is stopping you is an excuse, unless, of course there is something medical going on... but all the rest of it is a fucking excuse. You either want to change or you don't. There is no in between... there is no, "I'll try." You either do it or you don't.

I obviously don't play around with my sobriety. If there are other addictions like over eating, gambling etc. the solution is simple, make a choice and stick to it. For me, there was no going back, relapse isn't even in my vocabulary when it comes to sobriety.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 3:17:53 PM

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I took one look at that 12-step list and was ready to run for the hills.

If I had any sort of problem, be it alcohol, drugs, food, or whatever, I could never get into any type of 12-step thingy of that nature.
I fundamentally disagree with every single step of it (as depicted).

But I like your final part - that's more my way of thinking.

In relation to LGH's fast food problem, if she likes the salads and knows that the cheese and relish and ranch are the bad bits - just don't friggin eat those bits!!!! Plain and simple.
Eat the chicken and the greenery and the actual salad bits, leave all the cheese, sugared almonds, and all the bad bits on the plate and skip the toppings.

If she really really can't do that, I would suggest a therapist. Seriously.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 12/6/2014 3:23:40 PM >

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

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RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 3:20:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Stop fucking around. Either you want to stop the eating problem or you don't. It is that simple and easy. Whatever is stopping you is an excuse, unless, of course there is something medical going on... but all the rest of it is a fucking excuse. You either want to change or you don't. There is no in between... there is no, "I'll try." You either do it or you don't.

I obviously don't play around with my sobriety. If there are other addictions like over eating, gambling etc. the solution is simple, make a choice and stick to it. For me, there was no going back, relapse isn't even in my vocabulary when it comes to sobriety.

Wow. Lot of tough love here.

The thing I come back to in LGH's case is that she doesn't have a support system in place - from what I understand her partner/Daddy is also not a healthy eater and the same goes for the parents. It's hard enough to stick to a healthy lifestyle when you have emotional issues or poor issues with food when you can fill your own fridge -- imagine having enablers all around you who don't want to look in the mirror.

She can dismiss 99% of what OA has to offer, but getting a friend in a program like that for free could be very helpful at a time of weakness.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Gauge)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 3:24:13 PM

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I took one look at that 12-step list and was ready to run for the hills.

If I had any sort of problem, be it alcohol, drugs, food, or whatever, I could never get into any type of 12-step thingy of that nature.
I fundamentally disagree with every single step of it (as depicted).

But I like your final part - that's more my way of thinking.

Can you recommend anything with a better rate of success than AA?

It's like Churchill's view of democracy.
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 3:29:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I took one look at that 12-step list and was ready to run for the hills.

If I had any sort of problem, be it alcohol, drugs, food, or whatever, I could never get into any type of 12-step thingy of that nature.
I fundamentally disagree with every single step of it (as depicted).

But I like your final part - that's more my way of thinking.

Can you recommend anything with a better rate of success than AA?

It's like Churchill's view of democracy.
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Yes, actually.
1) Don't get hooked in the first place.
See that demon coming before it hits you and avoid it before it becomes a problem.
2) If it's too late to avoid the demon, just go cold turkey and kick the habit.

I am much more of the "fuck the excuses, you either do it or don't; make your mind up" person.
I really couldn't be doing with those 12 steps.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 3:35:22 PM

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" ... There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders ..."

Those aren't my words, they can be found on pg. 96 (Fourth Edition) of the AA "Big Book" as part of the preamble to the twelve steps.

There was a guy, back in the eighties who had been sober forty one years. His name was John. We called him "Father Time" (He was also older than dirt). He knew Bill Wilson, personally and used to tell a story about Bill Wilson saying: "Bob and I often said that if we could change one word in all of the AA fellowship, it would be the word 'rarely'. We would change it to: 'never'."

This is in reference to the very first word of the first sentence of the aforementioned preamble. It goes: "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not give themselves to this simple program."

Essentially, they're saying what I said before; AA has always said: If your way is working, that's great! Have fun, when your way stops working, we'll be here, sober and ready to help (because that's our twelfth step)."

Michael

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 3:40:33 PM

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yes, actually.
1) Don't get hooked in the first place.
See that demon coming before it hits you and avoid it before it becomes a problem.
2) If it's too late to avoid the demon, just go cold turkey and kick the habit.

How terrific it must be to not be addicted to anything.

I remember my heart going out to people who had an addiction to unhealthy eating habits because they couldn't "cold turkey" avoid their drug of choice. If we weren't talking about food, the idea of going "cold turkey" might be a good one but when we're talking about food, the idea is ridiculous, on its face.

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 3:46:43 PM

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From: Austin Texas
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For alcohol addiction there are a lot of people out there who say a moderation group works better for them than AA. No way could I ever conform to the AA model, most of it I disagree with and there have been several studies showing that moderation can work instead of complete and total elimination.

I too would be unable to bow down before a higher power even if I said my higher power is a rock. I've had addiction problems in my life, mainly prescription pain killers. While not emotionally addicted I was fully addicted on a physical level and it was rough.

Food is IMO a particular problem. People can avoid areas/people/lifestyles that use drugs or alcohol, people cannot avoid food. Food is essential to life. Again IMO but I see it as having to make a full lifestyle change when dieting fails.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

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RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 5:19:16 PM

LittleGirlHeart

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Plus, during the holidays, there's a lot of get togethers and work parties and social functions that revolve around food. People who don't know how to show love, or spend ytime with someone/people with out using food. Every time my mom wants to spend time with me, she Want to go out to eat and then go shopping , and neither of those two activities are good for me that I have a shopping addiction and good problem , she just simply does not know of any other way to try to connect with me , nor is she interested in any of the other thing that would connect with me like going on a day with me when I volunteer with the bird or dog rescue she does not understand or will not understand that when it comes to shopping or food I have a problem , she always says wall why can't you have one tiny piece of cake or whatever we are talking about and thats it?

thing is having one of the cake or one slice of pie it set off the craving and then I want another and another, and another that desire to eat it just does not stop , it's easier and best just to not eat it. Same with shopping, is not healthy for me to go window shopping and she refuses to understand this. She said well just don't bring your wallet, then you can buy anything , and when I tell her that does not work that windowshopping just encourages me to spend money Shiday try to make it about me not wanting to spend time with her .

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

For alcohol addiction there are a lot of people out there who say a moderation group works better for them than AA. No way could I ever conform to the AA model, most of it I disagree with and there have been several studies showing that moderation can work instead of complete and total elimination.

I too would be unable to bow down before a higher power even if I said my higher power is a rock. I've had addiction problems in my life, mainly prescription pain killers. While not emotionally addicted I was fully addicted on a physical level and it was rough.

Food is IMO a particular problem. People can avoid areas/people/lifestyles that use drugs or alcohol, people cannot avoid food. Food is essential to life. Again IMO but I see it as having to make a full lifestyle change when dieting fails.

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 5:35:45 PM

LittleGirlHeart

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No, he's a fast food junky, and is often the fast food instigator, say at 10pm(or whatever hour) he will decide he's craving xy z an go get it, and my mom purposely refuses to be mindful and will make things I shouldn't eat ,when she cooks for the whole family. Or she always says well this is healthy that is healthy, (and it's not)I don't see why you can't have rice a Roni, or hamburger helper, or there is nothing wrong with the rice to raise your blood sugar (the dr has told me not to have rice, pasta, or meals like hamburger helper,and she just refuses to accept why). Or even those shortbread cookie that claim they're Danish she'slike well there's no sugar in them and I don't see how they will raise your blood sugar "yeah there is sugar in the cookie listed in the ingredients list 3 different times. she is just being purposely dense, because her mom was a diabetic and she managed it for her mom or I dunno what.

It is a constant up hill battle, and I knowthat I cannot blame them all the time or not take responsibility it is just exhausting to fight your family up hill all the time

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Wow. Lot of tough love here.

The thing I come back to in LGH's case is that she doesn't have a support system in place - from what I understand her partner/Daddy is also not a healthy eater and the same goes for the parents. It's hard enough to stick to a healthy lifestyle when you have emotional issues or poor issues with food when you can fill your own fridge -- imagine having enablers all around you who don't want to look in the mirror.

She can dismiss 99% of what OA has to offer, but getting a friend in a program like that for free could be very helpful at a time of weakness.

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 5:38:08 PM

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Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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LGH do you live with your mom? You may have to start making your own meals, your blood sugar number is really worrisome.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:00:23 PM

LittleGirlHeart

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I do. Yeah, I think it would be best on nights she decides to make something she knows I shouldn't have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

LGH do you live with your mom? You may have to start making your own meals, your blood sugar number is really worrisome.

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:00:30 PM

Gauge

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Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

Plus, during the holidays, there's a lot of get togethers and work parties and social functions that revolve around food. People who don't know how to show love, or spend ytime with someone/people with out using food. Every time my mom wants to spend time with me, she Want to go out to eat and then go shopping , and neither of those two activities are good for me that I have a shopping addiction and good problem , she just simply does not know of any other way to try to connect with me , nor is she interested in any of the other thing that would connect with me like going on a day with me when I volunteer with the bird or dog rescue she does not understand or will not understand that when it comes to shopping or food I have a problem , she always says wall why can't you have one tiny piece of cake or whatever we are talking about and thats it?

The word to learn is "No." and let your No mean No.

People offer me alcohol all the time, well, those that do not know me, and I politely turn them down. If they press me I tell them that I abused the privilege at one time in my life and they can drink my share for me. If they press me any more than that, I tell them that I had a serious drinking problem and I am 14 years sober, and no thank you. No one has ever pressed me more than that, and even if they would, my answer is still no.

Funny thing is when I got sober they didn't close down all the bars and liquor stores, so it was up to me to control myself and abstain from drinking. My first day sober I went into a sports bar with a friend and we sat and watched a preseason football game. I agreed with my friend that if I got uncomfortable that we would leave. We stayed, watched the game, ate and left. Did I have urges to drink? Sure, but my mind was made up and I was done drinking.

The point is that you have choices, and you need to make the right ones. Going out you can still eat relatively healthy if you want to, but you have to want to. Temptation will always be there because McDonald's won't give a fuck if you are trying to break a bad eating habit, so it is up to you and you alone. Sure, support is important, but you need to be able to stand up for yourself when you need to.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:02:17 PM

Gauge

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Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Wow. Lot of tough love here.

The thing I come back to in LGH's case is that she doesn't have a support system in place - from what I understand her partner/Daddy is also not a healthy eater and the same goes for the parents. It's hard enough to stick to a healthy lifestyle when you have emotional issues or poor issues with food when you can fill your own fridge -- imagine having enablers all around you who don't want to look in the mirror.

She can dismiss 99% of what OA has to offer, but getting a friend in a program like that for free could be very helpful at a time of weakness.

No, not tough love, just truth. It is said with care and understanding, but I am a no frills kind of guy when it comes to my sobriety. My addiction wasn't pretty.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:05:53 PM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Can you recommend anything with a better rate of success than AA?

http://www.smartrecovery.org/

Don't know much about them, but they sound pretty decent.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:34:09 PM

Posts: 1788
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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There are other forms of recovery out there. The 12 steps are not the only method. There is www.SmartRecovery.org , which I personally like. There is also moderation programs as well for alcohol, such as www.Moderation.org Thanksfully, I can study and research things on my own. I am certainly aware of other programs besides just the 12 steps.

As for the Higher Power issue, I don't really struggle with that. Although, I will say this, I believe that "God" is not only "He" but also "She". God/Goddess of the same coin. Always having to refer to "God" as only "He", just implies the male dominated mentality that still exists but whatever. I can get past that, for me.

When saying the serenity prayer, sometimes I will just say Goddess or God. If in a AA meeting and they say the "Lords" prayer. I will just say "Our Mother", instead of just using "Our Father". I can see through the veiled covert agendas of some trying to force their "religion" down my throat. These people, I just ignore and walk away. Its that simple. My sponsor is aware of my spiritual beliefs and he is fine with that. Works for me.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Gauge)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:36:09 PM

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From: Saint Pete,FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Can you recommend anything with a better rate of success than AA?

http://www.smartrecovery.org/

Don't know much about them, but they sound pretty decent.

I have been to their meetings before. I've read their material. I like their approach to recovery. I am one of those who will use whatever works from all the recovery programs and leave the rest.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Gauge)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/6/2014 6:55:15 PM

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Joined: 3/22/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

The word to learn is "No." and let your No mean No.

People offer me alcohol all the time, well, those that do not know me, and I politely turn them down. If they press me I tell them that I abused the privilege at one time in my life and they can drink my share for me. If they press me any more than that, I tell them that I had a serious drinking problem and I am 14 years sober, and no thank you. No one has ever pressed me more than that, and even if they would, my answer is still no.

Funny thing is when I got sober they didn't close down all the bars and liquor stores, so it was up to me to control myself and abstain from drinking. My first day sober I went into a sports bar with a friend and we sat and watched a preseason football game. I agreed with my friend that if I got uncomfortable that we would leave. We stayed, watched the game, ate and left. Did I have urges to drink? Sure, but my mind was made up and I was done drinking.

The point is that you have choices, and you need to make the right ones. Going out you can still eat relatively healthy if you want to, but you have to want to. Temptation will always be there because McDonald's won't give a fuck if you are trying to break a bad eating habit, so it is up to you and you alone. Sure, support is important, but you need to be able to stand up for yourself when you need to.

Gauge

It all comes down to if you really want to do it and are determined to do it, no matter what addiction it is. I had a drinking problem and made my mind up to stop drinking. I haven't had a drink in over 6 years even though I'm around it all the time, Master is a brewer, our friends drink, family members drink, my reality is I can't drink. I could have used the excuse that because Master owns a brewery, I'm around it all the time so I can't stop drinking but that would have just been an excuse not to quit. Family gatherings, holidays, parties, visiting friends, going out anywhere, there are temptations everywhere, you can't avoid them, but you can pass them up. No one is saying it's easy giving up an addiction but it's very possible if it's something you really want and make the choice to do it.

_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

(in reply to Gauge)

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All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to LGH re: her food issues?

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