RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to LGH re: her food issues?

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RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 11:43:42 AM

Posts: 1788
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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It doesn't really matter what approach to recovery someone chooses or whether they do it on their own. Bottom line, either someone wants to quit their addiction or they don't. I don't personally judge anyone. Whatever someone want's to do, is their business, not mine. If someone comes to me asking me for help and I give them options, its up to them to do what they will with it. Some people I know didn't like the 12 step path or were Agnostics. Okay, so I would tell them about the Agnostic meeting's, SMART Recovery or any other form of recovery. Excuses come and go. To each their own. All I will say is there is always options out there for all kinds of problems.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to InHisHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 12:29:07 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The resistance in that thread was related to the spiritual aspects of 'the program.'

My life, literally, was saved though a 12 step program. I am NOT religious, though I am spiritual. But, when asked about my "success" (it will be 4 years in January), I *always* say that I had a shred of hope left in me, and I needed, at that point, to know that I was not the only person in the world dealing with the issues I was dealing with. *That's* where the program came in. Shoot...whether someone is religious or not, getting in with a group of people who at the end of the day are dealing with the same shit you are? PRICELESS.

I know, for me, it was a question of knowing I wasn't alone. For me, it wasn't as stupid a question as "why don't you just step away from the slot machine?". Same goes for any addiction. "Just stop going to the fridge". I mean, really, while that comment may come from a "good place", it just is not helpful for a lot of people. And, when you get involved with people who have the same experiences? Wow...it can be really eye-opening.

It took me a bit of time, but I got involved with a wonderful group, that I really enjoy. I consider several of these women close friends. But, even more than that, they *get* it. Some are religious, some are not. Some were "faking it" until they made it. But at the end of the day, we are all dealing with a common "demon". While I do not tout 12 step programs as the "be all, end all"...I *do* believe that they should be tried, and tried more than once. If you don't like one group, try another. Crap...there are groups in my program that I would never go back to. It may not work for you, but give it a chance. The only thing "religious" about my home group is that we meet in a church.

12 step programs don't work for everyone. But, I would suggest that they not be overlooked because someone is not religious. Give it a try...with an open mind. You never know...

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 12:30:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

I obviously don't play around with my sobriety. If there are other addictions like over eating, gambling etc. the solution is simple, make a choice and stick to it. For me, there was no going back, relapse isn't even in my vocabulary when it comes to sobriety.

Amen.

(in reply to Gauge)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 12:36:49 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

It is a constant up hill battle, and I knowthat I cannot blame them all the time or not take responsibility it is just exhausting to fight your family up hill all the time

Of course it is. But, YOU need to get to the point where YOU can say "yes" or "no".

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 1:34:08 PM

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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

It is a constant up hill battle, and I knowthat I cannot blame them all the time or not take responsibility it is just exhausting to fight your family up hill all the time

Of course it is. But, YOU need to get to the point where YOU can say "yes" or "no".

My wife is constantly baking cookies and cakes and all sorts of things for the family.
I have a small slice of cake and maybe 2 or 3 cookies in one day; and that's it!!
I have to say "no" and make myself go without and watch everyone else scoff it.
That said, most of our meals are freshly made from scratch ingredients; very little processed food.
So I can indulge in otherwise healthy~ish food

My kids know I have a weakness for cola bottles.
But.... being a diabetic, I have learned to say "no" and mean it.
A tiny 4oz bag of cola bottles I had bought for my birthday I manage to make last a week - just the odd few a day, not scoff the whole bag.

If I don't take the bull by the horns, my diabetes will go off the chart and I don't feel well.
Sometimes a 'support' structure helps. But in my case, after a while, those supporting you start to irritate and sound like nagging, so you end up being even worse than where you were in the first place.

It is something you have to learn to do by yourself.

I used to have a smoking habit; 60 a day was not unusual for me.
Two years ago, I kicked the habit. I felt a great sense of achievement doing it too!

Unfortunately, I relapsed and am now smoking 20-30 a day (when I can afford it).
If I don't have the money, I'm happy not smoking.
So why do I smoke??? Because I actually enjoy it.
I rarely drink, don't socialize, hate going out, on my PC every waking hour, almost a hermit.

@LGH: Yes, it is an uphill battle. It will always be that way if that's how you look at it.
But at the same time, it doesn't need to be exhausting either - that is a defeatist attitude.
Make it your own personal goal.
Eat all the nice things but skip the really bad stuff.
Eat the chicken and the greenery. Leave the cheese, the sugared almonds, the dressings etc.
After a while, it'll become a habit and not a drudgery.
You need to learn to say "no" and mean it.

If mom cooks something that you really shouldn't have - leave it, untouched.
Cook yourself something else. After a while she'll get the message.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 2:12:22 PM

Posts: 182
Joined: 1/3/2011
From: San Mateo, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Admitting to be powerless over whatever the problem is, is the most basic step of all. I think that is a universal principle to any form of help. Some people view admitting being powerless as a sign of weakness, which is horseshit to me. I quit drinking booze because I knew I had a problem with it. Now I have more power and control over my life, because I know longer let to alcohol have power over me.

This is a very interesting perspective. I am one of the few folks out there who had serious addiction problems and the catalyst for my getting clean was actually leaving a 12 step program because I refused to accept that any "thing" had power over me. I quit the program after 2 days because they kept telling me I was powerless - and that it was ok. I disagreed, to me, that is so *not* ok. For me it was more of a "fuck you drugs, I'm in charge of me" type thing. I saw that particular sort of powerlessness as a weakness and I absolutely refused to accept that. I get that it's about forgiving yourself, but I feel like the programs would have more success with certain types of people if they approached that angle through empowerment and not through the whole "Oh, it's okay, you're powerless anyway." That might be the reason that many end up becoming addicted to meetings.

I know my opinions on this are not popular, but I wanted to contribute my 2c. :)

(in reply to Charles6682)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 2:44:28 PM

LittleGirlHeart

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Joined: 4/4/2013
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when I say no, and when I told her , you're always saying I will support you, I will help you, then you want to take me out to eat junk , or fix meals you know I can't have , you're the first one to criticize me, for not following drs orders, or you're the first one to tell me if I don't stop eating I will weigh 500 pounds before I know it,( which is true,she does) she gets snippy then won't talk to me, or acts like she's an injured party an i light into her for no reason, so she obviously can't say nothing with out being attacked, so why bother.

Which isn't true, but I get the feeling she likes to play the I am just so bullied , im innocent I didnt do anything and you attacked me card..

I need to learn not to let her theatrics bother me.

< Message edited by LittleGirlHeart -- 12/8/2014 2:52:26 PM >

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to PandoraFoxxx)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 4:24:56 PM

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

LGH-

I work in a restaurant as a baker. Simply don't eat it. Make your own shit. You can't make them more supportive, so fuck 'em.

My guy eats a lot of crap. We share meals on occasion, but if he is having a huge steak and buckets of fries, I'll ask for half the steak, I'll bake my fries and hand cut them and limit them to one potatoes worth of fries. Sure, it requires more planning, but it's the best way for me to stay on track.

He actually wil be kinda sad if I get really skinny as eating and drinking are major things we enjoy together (we love love love cooking) but this is a compromise that works for both of us. Do you track your calories anywhere?

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 4:35:29 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

I need to learn not to let her theatrics bother me.

Yes, you do.

Remember, this is about *you*, not anyone else.

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 4:42:39 PM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

LGH-

I work in a restaurant as a baker. Simply don't eat it. Make your own shit. You can't make them more supportive, so fuck 'em.

My guy eats a lot of crap. We share meals on occasion, but if he is having a huge steak and buckets of fries, I'll ask for half the steak, I'll bake my fries and hand cut them and limit them to one potatoes worth of fries. Sure, it requires more planning, but it's the best way for me to stay on track.

He actually wil be kinda sad if I get really skinny as eating and drinking are major things we enjoy together (we love love love cooking) but this is a compromise that works for both of us. Do you track your calories anywhere?

I don't think that LGH has the wherewithall to keep track of calories.
And I don't mean that as a slur.... it's just the way she is.

I think for LGH, she just needs to stop eating the obvious stuff that is uber-fattening.
Pastries, blue cheese (or any cheese for that matter), sugared almonds, twinkies, ranch and other dressings.
Learn not to buy munchies and snacks when she is out... that sort of stuff.
And when she does fail the temptation.... stop after ONE piece!
Don't continue to eat more and more of it.
Learn how to refuse and say "no". Sit on your hands, walk away... whatever it takes.

Ultimately, it is a personal battle that she has to deal with.
We can offer all sorts of advice, but she has to make it happen; we can't do it for her.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 4:46:00 PM

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

i had a reason for asking, but I will pm her instead since you keep stomping all over with overwhelming advice that doesn't work for everyone either.

Yes, that's me flouncing a little.

But honestly, as someone who also struggles hard with this, if you come at me banning everything at once, I'll be done with you so fast, that method might work for you, but cold turkey isn't for everyone

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 4:58:33 PM

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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

i had a reason for asking, but I will pm her instead since you keep stomping all over with overwhelming advice that doesn't work for everyone either.

Yes, that's me flouncing a little.

But honestly, as someone who also struggles hard with this, if you come at me banning everything at once, I'll be done with you so fast, that method might work for you, but cold turkey isn't for everyone

It's not cold turkey for everything.
Just a simple and practical way for her to cut out a lot of the uber-fattening stuff.
I'm just as much a fan of take-outs and fast food and it does take a lot of willpower to stop scoffing when you know it's bad for you.

Quite simply: everything in moderation. No need to count calories.
If you know LGH from her past threads, you'll know what I'm talking about.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:04:58 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I don't think that LGH has the wherewithall to keep track of calories.
And I don't mean that as a slur.... it's just the way she is.

I think for LGH, she just needs to stop eating the obvious stuff that is uber-fattening.
Pastries, blue cheese (or any cheese for that matter), sugared almonds, twinkies, ranch and other dressings.
Learn not to buy munchies and snacks when she is out... that sort of stuff.
And when she does fail the temptation.... stop after ONE piece!
Don't continue to eat more and more of it.
Learn how to refuse and say "no". Sit on your hands, walk away... whatever it takes.

Ultimately, it is a personal battle that she has to deal with.
We can offer all sorts of advice, but she has to make it happen; we can't do it for her.

Oh my freaking God, are you serious?????

Oh wait, don't answer....I know this is going.

You, freedomdwarf, know exactly about this. Why doesn't this person know how to "step away"? You don't "get it" and that's the point.

I have no doubt that you mean well, but that means little to nothing in the OP's case. It's *so*easy, isn't it?

For you it may be, but for the OP it's not.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:19:06 PM

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

I'd have been so pissed if this thread was about me...

And I'd have been irritated with the way her other thread went.

For me, and many others, baby steps are important.

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:27:00 PM

LittleGirlHeart

Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

He tried to say well there's no food at home, so I have to go get fast food, I piped up with there is pot pies, want me to make you one? I made 2, and I had something healthy. Which made me happy.

I dont, no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

LGH-

I work in a restaurant as a baker. Simply don't eat it. Make your own shit. You can't make them more supportive, so fuck 'em.

My guy eats a lot of crap. We share meals on occasion, but if he is having a huge steak and buckets of fries, I'll ask for half the steak, I'll bake my fries and hand cut them and limit them to one potatoes worth of fries. Sure, it requires more planning, but it's the best way for me to stay on track.

He actually wil be kinda sad if I get really skinny as eating and drinking are major things we enjoy together (we love love love cooking) but this is a compromise that works for both of us. Do you track your calories anywhere?

< Message edited by LittleGirlHeart -- 12/8/2014 5:41:56 PM >

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:32:30 PM

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

Is there a reason you don't? You may find it enlightening to do it for a few days and see how much you're eating, and how to balance it out. I'm on myfitnesspal is be happy to friend you.

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:37:05 PM

LittleGirlHeart

Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

snacks are fine, in fact I was told by my dr to have snacks between meals, it's what you snack on that's the point. Todays snack was a huge bell pepper and an apple. Yesterdays snack was an advocado.

I don't have the tools to just eat one, and stop. Once I eat one, then I crave another, and another and another. It doesn't stop. So I choose just not to have what ever it is. Sweets and stuff isnt the issue outside of icedcoffee , it's foods. I have been craving going out to eat last several days, but I've been good ,I just keep thinking it's to bad we can't go to creekside dinner, they're close, and then I think, well no , it's not in line with your goals. But there's still this voice in my head saying "come on go,you want to'

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

LGH-

I work in a restaurant as a baker. Simply don't eat it. Make your own shit. You can't make them more supportive, so fuck 'em.

My guy eats a lot of crap. We share meals on occasion, but if he is having a huge steak and buckets of fries, I'll ask for half the steak, I'll bake my fries and hand cut them and limit them to one potatoes worth of fries. Sure, it requires more planning, but it's the best way for me to stay on track.

He actually wil be kinda sad if I get really skinny as eating and drinking are major things we enjoy together (we love love love cooking) but this is a compromise that works for both of us. Do you track your calories anywhere?

I don't think that LGH has the wherewithall to keep track of calories.
And I don't mean that as a slur.... it's just the way she is.

I think for LGH, she just needs to stop eating the obvious stuff that is uber-fattening.
Pastries, blue cheese (or any cheese for that matter), sugared almonds, twinkies, ranch and other dressings.
Learn not to buy munchies and snacks when she is out... that sort of stuff.
And when she does fail the temptation.... stop after ONE piece!
Don't continue to eat more and more of it.
Learn how to refuse and say "no". Sit on your hands, walk away... whatever it takes.

Ultimately, it is a personal battle that she has to deal with.
We can offer all sorts of advice, but she has to make it happen; we can't do it for her.

< Message edited by LittleGirlHeart -- 12/8/2014 5:45:25 PM >

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:41:11 PM

LittleGirlHeart

Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

Found it kind of hard, when 90% of what I was eating was home cooked, I didn't know how many calories were in it. Yes I went through a stage in time where I cooked a lot. But the plan was to restrictive to fast and I found it stressful and imploded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Is there a reason you don't? You may find it enlightening to do it for a few days and see how much you're eating, and how to balance it out. I'm on myfitnesspal is be happy to friend you.

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:44:29 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

when I say no, and when I told her , you're always saying I will support you, I will help you, then you want to take me out to eat junk , or fix meals you know I can't have , you're the first one to criticize me, for not following drs orders, or you're the first one to tell me if I don't stop eating I will weigh 500 pounds before I know it,( which is true,she does) she gets snippy then won't talk to me, or acts like she's an injured party an i light into her for no reason, so she obviously can't say nothing with out being attacked, so why bother.

Why bother? Because you are fighting for your life, not hers.

quote:

Which isn't true, but I get the feeling she likes to play the I am just so bullied , im innocent I didnt do anything and you attacked me card..

So she plays the victim, so what?

quote:

I need to learn not to let her theatrics bother me.

Very true.

Look, you are in this for your health and it is a battle that you must win. You already know that you have health problems, so, with that in mind, the only person that can win this battle is you.

You have to figure out who you are fighting for and why. You have to believe that you are worth fighting for or you are doomed. You must believe that you CAN do this in the face of ALL adversity. This is not easy, if it was, everyone would do it.

I faced terrific adversity in my early sobriety. My divorce was horrible, I was homeless, I lost everything I had, and had a catastrophic mental breakdown... and in spite of all that adversity, all I knew was that my life was over unless I stopped my drinking. I felt worthless and yet, I still found that my will to live was stronger than my desire to die, so I used my will to live as strength. The rest was fucking hard work and determination... in the face of tremendous odds... certainly too many to list here.

My point in all of this? You CAN do this, it is simply not going to be easy. A support system is a good thing, but frankly, if you lack the strength to stand on your own, a support system is useless because the second you face a challenge you are going to cave in.

Set reasonable goals for yourself. Don't set a goal of changing everything you eat all at once (although that is the way I would suggest it is done... but I am hardcore when it comes to this stuff) change something. Cut out snacks, or the extra helping of something, or something that you can do fairly easily. Nowhere is it written that you must "cold turkey" from everything... because, with food, that is impossible. Rather, make better choices... not necessarily perfect choices, but better ones.

Set yourself up for success rather than failure. The first thing that must change is that you have got to believe you can do it and that you are worth the fight. The rest is setting reasonable goals and then sticking by them.

One last thing, let's say that you go a few days and make good choices with food and then slip. Don't focus on the fact that you slipped up, focus on the fact that you made it a few days and made good choices. Don't make that slip up a reason to abandon what you are trying to accomplish, understand that you did well for a few days, and that you can do it again. Gain strength from the fact that you were successful. What I am telling you here goes against my nature when it comes to addictive behaviors, but it seems that you may need a different approach than what would suit me. So, don't obsess over failure, focus on the successes you have and keep going in a direction. Staying stuck in one place will get you exactly nowhere, so, pick a direction and go there, and don't look backwards. If you have to adjust what you are doing along the way, that is fine, but keep moving forward.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

RE: Can someone with 12-step experience give advice to ... - 12/8/2014 5:47:39 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

I don't have the tools to just eat one, and stop. Once I eat one, then I crave another, and another and another. So I choose just not to have what ever it is. Sweets and stuff isnt the issue outside of icedcoffee , it's foods. I have been craving going out to eat last several days, but I've been good ,I just keep thinking it's to bad we can't go to creekside dinner, they're close, and then I think, well no , it's not in line with your goals. But there's still this voice in my head saying "come on go,you want to'

After 14 years of sobriety, I still want to drink, I know that I cannot, but that doesn't stop me from wishing I could. People with addictions do what they do because they like it. Remind yourself why you are doing this, and tell the voices to piss off.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

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