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Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 6:42:51 AM   
stebbinsd


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I suppose that the switches would probably be the best people to ask for this scenario.

I've seen male-to-female transsexuals on TV who vouch that orgasms are, indeed, very different when you're a woman, than when you're a man. They're the only type of people who have any place to talk in that department, seeing as they're the only ones who've experienced, first hand, orgasms for both genders.

When you think about it, the whole idea of masochism makes no sense, from a scientific perspective.

Sadism makes perfect sense; back during the days of cavemen, it was a "kill or be killed world." Thus, it would make sense that evolution would give a survival advantage to those who enjoyed inflicting suffering (since it's a matter of common observance that people are more efficient at things they enjoy doing).

Masochism, however, does not make any sense. The whole point of pain - from a scientific perspective - is that it's so uncomfortable that you want to avoid circumstances that trigger it.

Now, with submission in general, you could make the argument that some people being naturally submissive provides a survival advantage to the entire human race, seeing as how this creates the possibility for hierarchy, without which every member of the human race would be out for himself.

That, however, only explains away some people's love for servitude. But ... physical pain? Being physically tortured?

This has always baffled me, but I finally think I have a working theory:

Do masochists simply feel pain differently than most people do? Are they born with some sort of nerve deficiency that makes things that's supposed to inflict our defintiion of pain ... instead inflict on them the sensation of being fucked in the pussy ... except on everwhere else in the body?

Like ... being punched in the gut by the man you love gives her that sort of feeling she gets when the man she loves fucks her cunt ... except it's in the belly?

And even if it's not the exact same feeling ... would it still feel good enough that it wouldn't be classified as "pain?" But she just calls it "pain" because she likens the sensations to circumstances that everyone, all her life, has told her are "painful?" And because she's never experienced true pain, she doesn't know any better?

Or, am I just completely batshit insane?

Discuss.
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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 7:20:40 AM   
InHisHeart


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I'm not a switch, I'm a submissive and a maso. I'm not sure what being a switch has to do with what a maso feels. Being a maso doesn't mean one enjoys all kinds of pain, even we can have hard limits. No one who has one brain cell working will ever punch me in the stomach or punch me anywhere and live to tell about it.

Pain stimulation to me is not comparative to the feeling I get having sex or being fucked. It's intimate, it's enjoyable, it's sexual (to me) but it's not the same sensation as anything else sexual. It's not better than anything else, it's simply different just as one sex act feels different than another sex act.

Why I like pain, I just do. I don't analyze the "whys" of my enjoyments, I just embrace them. Pain stimulation is also only enjoyable to me within a loving, trusting relationship, it's extremely intimate to me/us. I find there's a fine line between pain and pleasure which can easily be crossed from pain to pleasure and vise versa. What's pain to me might not be pain to another, what's not pain to me might be pain to someone else.

Everyone's pain tolerance level is different. Pain outside of a relationship, I enjoy the "pain" when getting a tattoo but to me only the first few minutes is painful, after the initial 3 minutes or so, I no longer feel it as pain. I feel it as an enjoyable sensation. Getting pubic hairs waxed is not painful to me.

If I stub my toe, slam my finger in the car door, cut my hand with a knife, I'll curse, bitch and cry like a wimp because that fucking hurts!


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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 7:38:32 AM   
suhlut


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I highly doubt the orgasm feels different in a man versus a woman.. I think its the same. I used to spend too much time wondering what it might feel like to be a man.. but I have since learned various things that convinces me that orgasms in humans is the same sensation.. the only real difference would be the sensation of what penetration would feel like.. rather then the sensation of what BEING penetrated feels like.. There lies the final smidge I have left of penis envy....and its really not envy any longer... its more "penis curiosity"

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 7:55:53 AM   
MariaB


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The essential component is not the pain itself, but rather the knowledge that one person has complete control over the other, deciding what that person will hear, do, taste, touch, smell and feel. Its about being hurt without being harmed because the person who is hurting you really cares about you. Its about a release of sexual and emotional energy. For some its like a heroin fix and others its about allowing themselves to feel like a completely sexual being,

Sadism within the scene is not the same as "Sexual Sadism". Its not about a natural instinct to survive either but that's a whole other subject.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 8:02:12 AM   
GoddessManko


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Thanks for the response everyone as I am curious. And LOL! IHH

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 12/22/2014 8:52:56 AM >


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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 8:04:28 AM   
suhlut


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Externally we all started out as an anatomical female. Essentially a guy is a closed up female. The penis that grows is an enlarged clitoris. It has 3 erectile tissues in it, where as the clitoris has 2 erectile tissues. (clitoris does not have the urethra growing in it, so she does not urinate with a clitoris) Many people call the clitoris a small penis, but embryologically speaking it is the other way around. Both genders have labia in utero....the labia stay and persist in the female, but if it is a MALE, the labia close up. The seam seen on the underside of the scrotum (separating the scrotum into rt-lt halves-compartments to hold each testicle) and the underside of the penis (kinda looks like a scar, but it is NOT a circumcision scar, it is the seam where he closed up when his genitals were more female.



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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 11:14:43 AM   
SweetForDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The essential component is not the pain itself, but rather the knowledge that one person has complete control over the other, deciding what that person will hear, do, taste, touch, smell and feel. Its about being hurt without being harmed because the person who is hurting you really cares about you. Its about a release of sexual and emotional energy. For some its like a heroin fix and others its about allowing themselves to feel like a completely sexual being,

Sadism within the scene is not the same as "Sexual Sadism". Its not about a natural instinct to survive either but that's a whole other subject.


It often is the pain itself for me, I inflict pain upon myself quite regularly. Sometimes I need it to reach orgasm if I'm alone. Other times it intensifies the experience.
In fact, its easier to inflict pain on myself than let someone else, I know exactly where my boundaries are, exactly when to stop, it feels safer. Its quite difficult for me to let someone else inflict pain on me, its better that way because it can be very intimate and intense and it has the control element but its still about the pain itself too I think.

To the OP, I don't think I have a great pain threshold or a lack of nerve endings, I don't think its the amount of pain someone can take that makes them a masochist, just that they enjoy some types of pain. It could be that they like a mild spanking. I like thuddy pain personally, I really dislike stingy kind of pain.

I have no idea why I like it though. I think I was just born that way.

< Message edited by SweetForDaddy -- 12/22/2014 11:35:39 AM >

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 2:48:52 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stebbinsd

I suppose that the switches would probably be the best people to ask for this scenario.
<snip>

Why would that be? Not all S/switches are into the S&M part of BDSM as a masochistic bottom. It would be masochists.

What has your slave told you (according to your profile, you require "about one hour a day of blinding pain"), and why do you enjoy being sadistic, if I may ask? You want more slaves to endure "four hours of hell a day" altogether. If you don't know why she enjoys it, then how do you regulate yourself? to the extent that sensation play and impact play should be a gradual process with warming up time during your scenes.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 3:08:29 PM   
RockaRolla


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stebbinsd
I've seen male-to-female transsexuals on TV who vouch that orgasms are, indeed, very different when you're a woman, than when you're a man. They're the only type of people who have any place to talk in that department, seeing as they're the only ones who've experienced, first hand, orgasms for both genders.


I'll probably catch hell for saying something like this, but I'm not convinced that an MtF's orgasm post-op is identical to a biological female's orgasm. For one thing, not all women orgasm the same way. Some are wilder, some are softer, some rarely cum at all. And when you have a surgeon's knives messing around in that bundle of nerves, there's gotta be a change in sensitivity. So I wouldn't consider that proof of a difference between male and female orgasms, more like pre- and post-op orgasms.

To answer your question, I'm not a masochist. But my partners have maso tendencies. From what they've described they're more into it for the adrenaline and endorphin rush. The pain from bites and spankings are temporary, but the endorphins last longer.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 3:15:03 PM   
stebbinsd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy
I don't think its the amount of pain someone can take that makes them a masochist, just that they enjoy some types of pain.

But, if you ENJOY it, can it still technically be called "pain" in the strictest sense of the word?

That was the question I asked myself that sent me down the path of pondering this entire topic.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 3:31:02 PM   
RockaRolla


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stebbinsd

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy
I don't think its the amount of pain someone can take that makes them a masochist, just that they enjoy some types of pain.

But, if you ENJOY it, can it still technically be called "pain" in the strictest sense of the word?

That was the question I asked myself that sent me down the path of pondering this entire topic.

Not if you differentiate between pain and suffering.

Pain is a physical response. If you enjoy it, you're still feeling it because your nerves are sending "this hurts!" signals to your brain.
Suffering is an emotional response to things we don't enjoy.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 3:34:15 PM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: suhlut

Externally we all started out as an anatomical female. Essentially a guy is a closed up female. The penis that grows is an enlarged clitoris. It has 3 erectile tissues in it, where as the clitoris has 2 erectile tissues. (clitoris does not have the urethra growing in it, so she does not urinate with a clitoris) Many people call the clitoris a small penis, but embryologically speaking it is the other way around. Both genders have labia in utero....the labia stay and persist in the female, but if it is a MALE, the labia close up. The seam seen on the underside of the scrotum (separating the scrotum into rt-lt halves-compartments to hold each testicle) and the underside of the penis (kinda looks like a scar, but it is NOT a circumcision scar, it is the seam where he closed up when his genitals were more female.


Not to derail the thread off-topic, but that is only the surface. The differences in nerve endings, positioning, and the way the nerves interact with the brain, plus brain thought patterns are generally VERY different from born-male to born-female. And only some of those can be changed with hormones (brain thought patterns DO change with female hormones, for example).

And that's only taking into account genitalia.

So, while there are some types of male orgasms that will feel similar to female, born-males (in general, there are always outliers) simply do not have the physiology to have orgasms the way females do. I very highly doubt they feel the same from a scientific perspective, and I, too, know those who have had sex changes and THEY say it feels different.

So, doubting that really doesn't make any sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

I'll probably catch hell for saying something like this, but I'm not convinced that an MtF's orgasm post-op is identical to a biological female's orgasm. For one thing, not all women orgasm the same way. Some are wilder, some are softer, some rarely cum at all. And when you have a surgeon's knives messing around in that bundle of nerves, there's gotta be a change in sensitivity. So I wouldn't consider that proof of a difference between male and female orgasms, more like pre- and post-op orgasms.


Well, I agree with this, because... physiology. That said, the brain patterns (because of changes caused by hormones) are different, so how orgasms are experienced between men and women can be felt differently (and, indeed, are different).

Again, not to derail the thread. Orgasm is a personal interest and area of study for me. It's fascinating just how much goes into it.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 3:36:27 PM   
InHisHeart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stebbinsd
But, if you ENJOY it, can it still technically be called "pain" in the strictest sense of the word?

That was the question I asked myself that sent me down the path of pondering this entire topic.


Sure, why not? If a heavy flogging, biting, nipple/clit clamps, etc. weren't painful then the thrill, excitement and enjoyment of feeling it wouldn't be there for me.


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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 3:52:00 PM   
SweetForDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stebbinsd

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy
I don't think its the amount of pain someone can take that makes them a masochist, just that they enjoy some types of pain.

But, if you ENJOY it, can it still technically be called "pain" in the strictest sense of the word?

That was the question I asked myself that sent me down the path of pondering this entire topic.


Yes, it's definitely pain I'm feeling, it definitely hurts, right to the point of being unbearable. Maybe enjoyment is the wrong word to describe the feeling, its difficult to put into words. Its more of a struggle, it has to start off slowly for me and build to a crescendo, the end point being where I can take no more pain and where the orgasm happens (hopefully! but that doesn't happen just from pain for me). Its like climbing to the top of a mountain, its bloody hard work but you feel elated when you get to the top. I don't know how else to describe it…

Once the orgasm is over whatever was happening has to stop immediately for me, the pain is no longer pleasurable at all at that moment, its just painful.


< Message edited by SweetForDaddy -- 12/22/2014 4:07:56 PM >

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 4:16:38 PM   
eulero83


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stebbinsd I do not agree with your post on many points, I won't address the switches and trans part as I think it distract from the main topic.
First thing if a mosochist was unable to feel pain he would niether enjoy it so that's a no brainer, but you ask if they do in a tradictional way, too. It's one of those questions like "does a tree make any sound if it falls but no one is there to hear?" we can't compare the exact sensation but I'm sure anyone, masochists included, could descirbe it as a feeling of disconfort that can reach levels up to pircing or blinding, so I bet on "yes they do".
Now let's talk about the fighting and "kill or be killed" point, I think you are quite biased and I don't know why people always try to find a mean in evolution. To answer this topic: first if you want to bring it up you have to demostrate sadism is hereditary and I never heard of scientific proofs to support it, second in my opinion when everybody are wired to kill it's more probable estinction than prosperity, third I don't think all people that defines them as sadists here are serial killers so you are talking about two different things, fourth it's not so easy to kill somone with a club if you can0t surprise him and people attacked by clubs tend to defend themelf so you even if you are efficent you're gonna suffer a lot of pain to keep reproducing yourself, better enjoy that, too.
People with nerve deficency are not masochists but affected by CIPA and they do not enjoy realizing they have te hand on a fire only by the burning meat smell.
I'd address also other points but it's late and I'm tired, I thin this answers the main part of your post.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 4:18:50 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

Do masochists simply feel pain differently than most people do? Are they born with some sort of nerve deficiency that makes things that's supposed to inflict our defintiion of pain ... instead inflict on them the sensation of being fucked in the pussy ... except on everwhere else in the body?



I think a Dom can answer this question since we study SM submissives and learn what makes them tick to make them, ah, tick.

Masochists hurt just the same but use this stimulous to trigger pleasure, they translate it into pleasure. But not all pain is the same. The context that moves her toward subspace determines if she hates or enjoys the pain. For example, if I don't bind Star properly and don't warm her ass up properly then she will hate the flogging rather than love me for it. So, putting a SM submissive into her groove will make her dance. What works for one will not work for another, some submissives want to be knocked out and bloody with a beating and some will never be receptive to that or a kick in the stomach.  

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 5:11:20 PM   
InHisHeart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I think a Dom can answer this question since we study SM submissives and learn what makes them tick to make them, ah, tick.

Masochists hurt just the same but use this stimulous to trigger pleasure, they translate it into pleasure. But not all pain is the same. The context that moves her toward subspace determines if she hates or enjoys the pain. For example, if I don't bind Star properly and don't warm her ass up properly then she will hate the flogging rather than love me for it. So, putting a SM submissive into her groove will make her dance. What works for one will not work for another, some submissives want to be knocked out and bloody with a beating and some will never be receptive to that or a kick in the stomach.  


Wonderfully explained, hits the nail on the head for me.




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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 5:23:52 PM   
Bhruic


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Under certain circumstances, prolonged pain releases endorphins and creates a feeling of trance like euphoria... From my own experience I can say that the pain is still experienced as pain, but the physical reaction to it is different. In that euphoric state, even when you can't take the pain anymore, it's more like the reaction of being mercilessly tickled... It's an overload of sensation that is recognizable as pain, but not processed the same way.

I don't know if that makes any sense or not...

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 7:57:35 PM   
LittleGirlHeart


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Yes, I feel pain as bad pain. It's not pleasant or enjoyable or any less painful since I enjoy some forms of sexual/bdsm pain.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 12/22/2014 8:07:36 PM   
LittleGirlHeart


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Bad pain is sidden and sharp and not expected, nor wanted. With masochismfor me there's warm up, a variance of pain a tempo. It's done out of love, and to make me happy.the situations are entirely differnt.

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