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Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 9:20:33 AM

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Firstly, I hope that this post doesn't contravene any kind of forum rules. Basically, I'd like to post a similar question to one that I've already posted in the Ask a Submissive/Slave section, although this time I'd like to direct the question towards Dominant women, and in particular to the Sadists amongst them. Do you have a preference for either inflicting physical pain on your submissive(s) or for humiliating them, or are you interested in both activities? Is either one of these two more common amongst Sadists? I'm curious to know, as I seem to encounter Dominants who are more interested in inflicting physical pain than humiliating their partners more frequently.

RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 9:27:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Do you have a preference for either inflicting physical pain on your submissive(s) or for humiliating them, or are you interested in both activities?

No, neither. But that might be because I'm a Sensual Domina.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Is either one of these two more common amongst Sadists?

I wouldn't know.

This wouldn't be about SPH-Small Penis Humiliation, would it? That is a specific type of sexual humiliation, and the sadistic element would be CBT. If so, I would reword your inquiries.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 10:37:25 AM

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I'm somewhat sadistic and so I'll put in my ten cents worth.

Like I said on the other thread, I enjoy being the gate keeper...taking them through a journey and bringing them back. I'm no one trick pony though.

Domination is big on my list of likes and so when I inflict pain I have to throw in a huge amount of domination with that pain. Just hitting someone has zero fun in it for me. I need communication from start to finish. The gatekeeper scene needs nothing more than reassurance to the submissive; there is no humiliation, no getting bossy or demanding, just a soft voice and a lot of patience; a little like a doctor would be with the patient he's about to do surgery on. On the other hand, the man who is going to take a whole lot of pain for me is going to have me up close, in his face being very verbal with him. That verbal can be demanding, cruel, humiliating and even light hearted and fun; in fact I've been known to laugh quiet a lot when I'm inflicting pain. Basically I can't give a guy a whopping without dominance but I can give dominance without inflicting pain.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 11:58:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I've been known to laugh quiet a lot when I'm inflicting pain. Basically I can't give a guy a whopping without dominance but I can give dominance without inflicting pain.

Yes. This.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 12:29:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

This wouldn't be about SPH-Small Penis Humiliation, would it? That is a specific type of sexual humiliation, and the sadistic element would be CBT. If so, I would reword your inquiries.

My post isn't really about any one form of humiliation, and certainly isn't about Small Penis Humiliation, which isn't really a thing of mine. When talking about "humiliation" and "physical pain" I'm being quite general. My question just stems from the observation that most of the kinksters that I encounter seem to have a thing for pain, either inflicting it or taking it, but don't seem to get as fired up over humiliation. Like someone already pointed out, maybe that aspect of D/s is more visible, although something else has occurred to me: being into humiliation is perhaps, in some cases, something that people have a harder time being open about in general?

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 1:08:00 PM

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Thanks for clarifying. SPH and/or CBT is one example, I've noticed, where male subs want the sexual humiliation aspect more than the actual physical pain. Many of them think they want a masochistic level of pain, but their actual pain thresholds aren't in sync with their fantasies. I don't know how this works with female subs in terms of their ratios of fantasy:pain threshold.

For instance, there are male subs who want random women to come up to them and kick them in the balls. Or punch them in the balls. (We get threads like this every so often, as well as getting contacted individually.) Or to do other painfully-sounding things to their genitals, whether it's trampling, urethral insertion, etc. Often what these subs are after is sexual humiliation, the ones who are having these masochistic fantasies. In real life, based on what I've heard in my former FemDom group, these guys can't even bear having a pair of nipple clamps affixed upon them or clothespins to their genitalia. It's because it's not the physical pain they're actually after.

How this relates to the BDSM Topping varies. I run into more sadistic or sado-masochistic Dommes than I do non-sadistic in general. However, I would say that more than half of lifestyle Dommes are NOT heavily into humiliation and many aren't into it at all. I believe most of the Dommes who do engage in this regularly have a client base as BDSM providers, whether as a Pro-Domme or as a Cyber Fin-Domme.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 1:48:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Many of them think they want a masochistic level of pain, but their actual pain thresholds aren't in sync with their fantasies. I don't know how this works with female subs in terms of their ratios of fantasy:pain threshold.

See, I used to be one of those guys. It worked perfectly well as wank fodder, but when I was confronted with the reality of my fantasies it didn't really have the same effect on me. Not that I've completely ruled out experimenting in this area, these things are subject to change after all and I'm not exactly what you would call an experienced submissive. Women apparently have a higher pain threshold than men, so perhaps this isn't a problem encountered by female submissives as much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

I believe most of the Dommes who do engage in this regularly have a client base as BDSM providers, whether as a Pro-Domme or as a Cyber Fin-Domme.

This is another reason for my question. Most of the people that engage in humiliation practices seem to be Pro-Dommes of some variety, whereas the non-professionals that I've known are the ones who prefer pain sluts as play partners. I suppose it interests me to think about how much and how often submissives' and non-professional Dominants' fantasies and desires converge.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 1:55:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Do you have a preference for either inflicting physical pain on your submissive(s) or for humiliating them, or are you interested in both activities?

No, neither. But that might be because I'm a Sensual Domina.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Is either one of these two more common amongst Sadists?

I wouldn't know.

This wouldn't be about SPH-Small Penis Humiliation, would it? That is a specific type of sexual humiliation, and the sadistic element would be CBT. If so, I would reword your inquiries.

An obvious question.

(One that occurred to me as well).

Leading.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 2:56:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

This is another reason for my question. Most of the people that engage in humiliation practices seem to be Pro-Dommes of some variety, whereas the non-professionals that I've known are the ones who prefer pain sluts as play partners. I suppose it interests me to think about how much and how often submissives' and non-professional Dominants' fantasies and desires converge.

Since I'm not a sadist, a pain slut is incompatible with me. In fact, I don't want a sub who identifies as any sort of slut. I've done the verbal sexual humiliation thing before, but it's not my "thing" and I don't require this from a sub. (I definitely have not had to nor would I want a sub into SPH.

Nor CBT neither, except in its mildest forms, as in leaving off the "T." Don't want to damage the goods, yanno.

)

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 6:56:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
How this relates to the BDSM Topping varies. I run into more sadistic or sado-masochistic Dommes than I do non-sadistic in general. However, I would say that more than half of lifestyle Dommes are NOT heavily into humiliation and many aren't into it at all. I believe most of the Dommes who do engage in this regularly have a client base as BDSM providers, whether as a Pro-Domme or as a Cyber Fin-Domme.

This is false. Not only do experiences vary Domme to Domme but also its meaning. I enjoy sadism. But everything I do ties to Ownership more than anything. Both inflicting pain and humiliation. There may be little to no communication because I enjoy sensory deprivation. I don't think the technique matters, only the results.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 7:56:26 PM

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I agree on this sensory deprivation. This tactic is used quite often. :P

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
This is false. Not only do experiences vary Domme to Domme but also its meaning. I enjoy sadism. But everything I do ties to Ownership more than anything. Both inflicting pain and humiliation. There may be little to no communication because I enjoy sensory deprivation. I don't think the technique matters, only the results.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 8:11:34 PM

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[Brackets added]

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

How this relates to the BDSM Topping varies. I run into more sadistic or sado-masochistic Dommes than I do non-sadistic in general. However, I would say that more than half of lifestyle Dommes are NOT heavily into humiliation and many aren't into it at all. I believe most of the Dommes who do engage in this regularly have a client base as BDSM providers, whether as a Pro-Domme or as a Cyber Fin-Domme.

This is false. Not only do experiences vary Domme to Domme but also its meaning. I enjoy sadism. But everything I do ties to Ownership more than anything. Both inflicting pain and humiliation. There may be little to no communication because I enjoy sensory deprivation. I don't think the technique matters, only the results.

I'll narrow this down more (i.e., '[IME,] I would say that more than half of lifestyle Dommes...'), since I don't know what the chunk of the whole pie is.

Based on my FemDom group, other Dommes I know, and Dommes who have posted on previous Collarchat threads (fluctuating variable) over the past 2 years,
this sample size primary consists of Dommes who are:
-- Ranging in Age Mainly from 35-65 (a few younger, a few up to age 70)
-- IRT, not Cyber, not Chatroom Dommes
-- Not For Hire (Lifestyle)
-- Mostly Straight, Some Bi or Heteroflexible (not counting Lesbian, since their subs are ordinarily female, not male)
-- Majority (over 50%) are Sadistic
-- Roughly Half are Mono, including those (straight) Poly who say they reserve sexual relations with primary partner & usually not w/other subs
-- Has full sexual relations with primary partner and/or subs
-- Seeks LTR partnership w/collared male sub, not casual play partners
-- Rarely does NSA and/or On-Line BDSM Topping
Note: My sample size would logically consist of those Dommes who have more in common with me than those who do not, other than forum posters here.

And your sample size, other than yourself? Including which of the above categories would apply to you personally, if you would be so kind.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 1:35:55 AM

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If you really believe that humiliation only consists of ball busting and telling a guy how small his cock is, you need to get out more. I find it really offensive that you guys liken me to a professional Domme or have some sort of client base because of the way I tick.

Humiliation is hugely individual for each and every person. A certain type of look can be humiliating for a submissive; a threat of punishment if they don't pull their weight can be humiliating for a submissive. A slapped face, being made to feel like a child or even just a disappointed voice... I could go on but I'm not going to go to because it will clearly fall on deaf ears.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 12/24/2014 1:36:35 AM >

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 10:53:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

...I seem to encounter Dominants who are more interested in inflicting physical pain than humiliating their partners more frequently.

Maria brings up a good point, OP, which is that there are many forms of humiliation, whether done intentionally to humiliate or whether humiliation becomes a by-product. Could you be more precise with a few specific examples of what you have in mind? Each person's concept of humiliation is different, with or without acts of degradation. If your topic has to do with a wider range than that of performing humiliating acts for its sake alone, then perhaps some Dominants can get on the same page with you, because there is such a broad range to the spectrum.

When I discipline/correct a sub, it isn't done to humiliate him; however, he may feel humiliated in the process. Just as domination as an authority dynamic is part of the discipline process, yet that subject is wide-ranging also (Domestic Discipline, discipline vs. punishment, punishment & humiliation dynamics, not all Dominants are into punishing their subs with corporal punishment, inter alia).

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 1:56:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

When I discipline/correct a sub, it isn't done to humiliate him; however, he may feel humiliated in the process.

Exactly this. There have been many times where I've had no intention of humiliating a submissive but found I've done so anyway and its usually a contradiction of emotions. Its also something I enjoy seeing in their flushed face or their dilating eyes, especially early on when the relationship is just starting to get established. Its not a cringe, its not a die of embarrassment moment but more of humbling one.

I remember berating my fem sub in front of a crowd of people because she spoke out of line with someone. As it turned out, she had good reason to do so but not without talking to me about it first. What she did, though unintentional, was humiliate me and I turned it round and put that humiliation back on her. I remember this guy saying to me, "perhaps you were a bit harsh on her" and perhaps I was but months later she confided in me that, that particular scenario was very grounding for her.

I've had a few long term submissives both within poly and monogamous relationships and each one of them have big personalities. Big personalities attract me and bring out my dominance, not because they are a challenge but because their energetic personalities inspire me. Whilst I expect compliance, I don't want some pan faced guy who shuffles around uttering "yes Ma'am, no Ma'am, thee bags full Ma'am". Its those sort of submissives that imo, have put themselves into their own little head fuckery world of humiliation. They are playing their own little fantasy and some dominant women provide them with the facility to do that...I don't.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 2:55:31 PM

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From the OP's other thread on Masochism, he says he's into the emotional form of humiliation.

Just to give you my own perspective, I have ambivalent feelings about this. But perhaps it can provide some further insight for the OP.

I have to care about somebody in order to want to correct them. When discipline starts becoming an issue, as in constantly having to make corrections with a sub, then I will start not caring anymore. It becomes more trouble than it's worth.

As a parallel to this, I have to care about a man as my sub in order to humiliate him. I have to respect him and not only respect his mental-emotional limits but know them intimately. He has to have the emotional fortitude to be able to take it like a man (and not a man-child). My last sub was not into humiliation play nor did he ever need to be threatened. He told me point blank that he was more than happy to keep me pleased and to do as I asked, and that it wasn't necessary. If not my sub, then we don't have a consensual humiliation dynamic in place, as I had had (verbally per sexual domination) with my late husband according to his wishes.

Referring back to what Maria spoke of, if my sub embarrasses me (without just cause), then discipline/correction is in order, and we are going to tangle in the humiliation zone. But not as humiliation play. If he is an emotional masochist who does things deliberately (as in Topping from the bottom) or carelessly (passive-aggressively) to try to induce me to humiliate him, then I won't give him what he wants. I won't be manipulated like that, which is the primary reason why I refuse to deal with a so-called bratty sub.

ETA: By the same token, if my sub enjoys getting his face slapped, then this wouldn't be effective as a correction for him. The same with spanking--it would either be part of funishment, or used as discipline, but not both.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 12/24/2014 2:59:55 PM >

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 4:02:20 PM

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Humiliation vs physical sadism;

I enjoy both but which one I use (or both) depends on different things. It depends on what I want to accomplish; for example, it may depend on whether I am training, punishing, or playing and what the abilities of the slave are at that time. If I am tired I may not want to go swinging a paddle but making a slave do something humiliating for amusement may suffice.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 4:04:22 PM

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I personally find little to no interest in humiliation and am happy that my boy doesn't like it either! I read these posts about Dommes humiliating subs in public and all I feel is completely mortified to think of myself saying the things they say to cashiers/waitresses etc. about the sub. I personally adore sadism, but I'm what you'd call a sensual sadist. I like to mix pleasure with pain. Now I do have to disagree about bratty subs. My boy is a brat, but he knows when he's giving me a laugh and when he's pushed it too far. And for us no matter what the punishment, it isn't enjoyable because he doesn't like to disappoint me and I don't like to punish him. I like funishments and so does he. For example, him being cheeky in the grocery store and not speaking after I playfully told him to shut up? It was cute and he knew when to STOP before I got angry. That earned him a flogging, but it was one we both enjoyed. Him telling me duh in answer to me telling him to clean his car? That earned him a flogging that he didn't enjoy and apologized profusely for. I think it depends sub to sub how they take certain things. My boy feels humiliated if he messes something up or makes a mistake. I would never make him feel worse by harping on it. That would just be too much for him emotionally.

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/25/2014 2:34:40 AM

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So far I've found reading the responses to my post interesting, but maybe it would be a good idea for me to clarify a few things at this point. In response to the request that I describe my own personal humiliation fantasies: there are specific forms of humiliation that I enjoy or want to experiment with, however, with regards to my original question, I don't feel that knowing what these are would really help to find the kind of responses I was looking for. I probably should have made this clearer in my original post, but my question specifically concerns play between two consenting partners, when done for the enjoyment of both. It's interesting to read the replies written by people who talk about "correcting" their submissive(s), or acting in such a way that they humiliated their submissive unintentionally for whatever reason, but this wasn't really what I had in mind. For me, these aspects aren't necessarily what I would consider acts of "sadism", since they aren't done for the pleasure of doing them, either for the Dominant or for the submissive (at least, that's how it seems to me); they have a specific function, which is to "punish" or "correct" the submissive. I find this aspect of a D/s relationship interesting, but it simply wasn't what I had in mind when I wrote my original post.
To rephrase my question: Sadists, what is it that you enjoy doing to your submissive(s) (and for the enjoyment of everyone involved), inflicting physical pain on them, making a submissive undergo one form or another of humiliation, or both?

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RE: Sadism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/25/2014 11:46:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

To rephrase my question: Sadists, what is it that you enjoy doing to your submissive(s) (and for the enjoyment of everyone involved), inflicting physical pain on them, making a submissive undergo one form or another of humiliation, or both?

Yes.

Look, humiliation is a broadly defined term as you have been told. One day, I emailed my slut and told her that she was to refer to herself as my "Cunt" a word, I might add, that I knew she hated. She struggled greatly with the idea simply because she detested the word, but it was what I wanted from her. She arrived at my home, and before she said a word to me, I told her that she was to start each and every sentence with it. That was humiliating for her, but she really grooved on it after awhile.

Let's face it, humiliation is not a "one size fits all" topic, neither is pain. Find what works for you, and what combination of the two elements makes your motor run.

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