RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons

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thishereboi -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 5:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Lol, I only post childish remarks because they're the only thing people with thick skulls seem to comprehend, complex words often get the small minded angry and frustrated, didn't want that to happen [;)] And I'm glad you pointed out the one attack which resulted in one man dead which made international news, and yet your infallible memory seems to forget the hundreds of mass shootings your own country has each year which don't make the news because they're so common, reporting on them seems rather redundant. You people are so blind to what's happening around you that you grasp at straws to make yourselves seem oh so important and superior. Like the dude in captain america said "Arrogance isn't an inherently american trait, but you people do it better than anyone." No arrogance isn't inherently american, you prove that with every post. And the bullshit in the bolded part is the main reason I don't take what you say very seriously. You didn't used to post under the nic brain did you?

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 5:36:31 PM)
Like the dude in captain america said "Arrogance isn't an inherently american trait, but you people do it better than anyone." Just before getting his ass kicked.

Staleek -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 5:44:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 And I'm glad you pointed out the one attack which resulted in one man dead which made international news, and yet your infallible memory seems to forget the hundreds of mass shootings your own country has each year which don't make the news because they're so common, reporting on them seems rather redundant. The USA has between three and five mass shootings per year. The thing about mass shootings is that they are dramatic and horrifying, so can be used on 24 hour news networks to drum up a good old drama and rake in the ratings. Mass shootings aren't really the issue, it's the more mundane tens of thousands of people killed and injured by guns not involved in mass shootings that needs to be urgently addressed.

Aylee -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 5:46:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Critics said they think this is one step closer to turning Kansas into something more like the wild west. And far be it from them to notice that effect has been the opposite. PS the wild west wasn't even the wild west as they are referring to it. To many movies. It was less than a year ago that I left Kansas. I realize that it is "fly-over country" and therefor unimportant, but it was not lawless. They have roads, cell service, electricity, schools, hospitals, and so on. In fact, every county has a college. It does have a lot of small towns. By and large I would say that I never felt unsafe. I also spent many years traveling A LOT. By and large I never felt unsafe. It really had nothing to do with more or less laws, but the fact that by and large people are decent. Now I am in the Pacific North West. Ya know what, by and large I have not felt unsafe. There are a lot of small towns, in fact I line on the outskirts of one, but they have electricity, cell service, schools, and so forth as well. So I am unsure where this idea that the US is so scary comes from, cause ya know, it really is not.

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 5:49:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 And I'm glad you pointed out the one attack which resulted in one man dead which made international news, and yet your infallible memory seems to forget the hundreds of mass shootings your own country has each year which don't make the news because they're so common, reporting on them seems rather redundant. The USA has between three and five mass shootings per year. The thing about mass shootings is that they are dramatic and horrifying, so can be used on 24 hour news networks to drum up a good old drama and rake in the ratings. Mass shootings aren't really the issue, it's the more mundane tens of thousands of people killed and injured by guns not involved in mass shootings that needs to be urgently addressed. In the last year of statistics there were 13,000 firearms murders, to many to be sure but far short of your claim. There are less than 1000 accidents, again to many but far less than the press would have you believe. The rest, a majority, are suicides, and if someone really wants to kill themselves they can jump out of a window, which would make the Brady bunch happier.

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 6:03:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Critics said they think this is one step closer to turning Kansas into something more like the wild west. And far be it from them to notice that effect has been the opposite. PS the wild west wasn't even the wild west as they are referring to it. To many movies. It was less than a year ago that I left Kansas. I realize that it is "fly-over country" and therefor unimportant, but it was not lawless. They have roads, cell service, electricity, schools, hospitals, and so on. In fact, every county has a college. It does have a lot of small towns. By and large I would say that I never felt unsafe. I also spent many years traveling A LOT. By and large I never felt unsafe. It really had nothing to do with more or less laws, but the fact that by and large people are decent. Now I am in the Pacific North West. Ya know what, by and large I have not felt unsafe. There are a lot of small towns, in fact I line on the outskirts of one, but they have electricity, cell service, schools, and so forth as well. So I am unsure where this idea that the US is so scary comes from, cause ya know, it really is not. I know. I have lived in MD IL MO TX CA and AL and haven't found any that scary.

Staleek -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 6:11:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 And I'm glad you pointed out the one attack which resulted in one man dead which made international news, and yet your infallible memory seems to forget the hundreds of mass shootings your own country has each year which don't make the news because they're so common, reporting on them seems rather redundant. The USA has between three and five mass shootings per year. The thing about mass shootings is that they are dramatic and horrifying, so can be used on 24 hour news networks to drum up a good old drama and rake in the ratings. Mass shootings aren't really the issue, it's the more mundane tens of thousands of people killed and injured by guns not involved in mass shootings that needs to be urgently addressed. In the last year of statistics there were 13,000 firearms murders, to many to be sure but far short of your claim. There are less than 1000 accidents, again to many but far less than the press would have you believe. The rest, a majority, are suicides, and if someone really wants to kill themselves they can jump out of a window, which would make the Brady bunch happier. For a start if you removed the "right" of people to own deadly firearms the suicide rate almost certainly would fall. 30,000 citizens a year lost to guns with many thousands more injured isn't something to ignore. I am not actually advocating any form of gun control, just an acknowledgement that this is an issue. I am not even advocating doing anything about it, perhaps the deaths and injuries from gun violence are worth it for the right to own these weapons? Just be intellectually honest about it. Secondly, this is madness. The USA in general and Fox News and the Republicans in particular have been shitting their pants over Ebola for the past 8 months. In over a year this epidemic has killed a total of 8641 people, almost all of them in Africa (only 1 in the USA). And yet this epidemic has been used as an excuse to put people under house arrest, quarantine people, ban travel from countries, and point fingers at Barack Obama for some reason. Yet over three times more people a year die, American citizens on American soil, through guns, yet any suggestion of bringing in extra laws to deal with it are met with derision and hostility. Why? This is woefully inconsistent and irrational behaviour. The gun debate is very obviously not about saving human life. The fact is that gun ownership has gone from being a political discussion about the safety of people in society into a tribal conflict for right-wing opinion makers to claim victimization about because "FREEDOM!"

PeonForHer -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 6:26:55 PM)
quote: So I am unsure where this idea that the US is so scary comes from, cause ya know, it really is not. I think it might be because, to the rest of the world, Americans look as though they enjoy killing each other, Aylee.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 6:56:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 "hundreds of mass shootings we have each year?" what??? Even an anti gun nut like Bloomberg doesn't make a stupid claim like that. Cut him some slack though, he isn't old enough to know better. Please...please, God...don't let Tk be representative of the next generation of leaders.

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 7:32:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 And I'm glad you pointed out the one attack which resulted in one man dead which made international news, and yet your infallible memory seems to forget the hundreds of mass shootings your own country has each year which don't make the news because they're so common, reporting on them seems rather redundant. The USA has between three and five mass shootings per year. The thing about mass shootings is that they are dramatic and horrifying, so can be used on 24 hour news networks to drum up a good old drama and rake in the ratings. Mass shootings aren't really the issue, it's the more mundane tens of thousands of people killed and injured by guns not involved in mass shootings that needs to be urgently addressed. In the last year of statistics there were 13,000 firearms murders, to many to be sure but far short of your claim. There are less than 1000 accidents, again to many but far less than the press would have you believe. The rest, a majority, are suicides, and if someone really wants to kill themselves they can jump out of a window, which would make the Brady bunch happier. For a start if you removed the "right" of people to own deadly firearms the suicide rate almost certainly would fall. 30,000 citizens a year lost to guns with many thousands more injured isn't something to ignore. I am not actually advocating any form of gun control, just an acknowledgement that this is an issue. I am not even advocating doing anything about it, perhaps the deaths and injuries from gun violence are worth it for the right to own these weapons? Just be intellectually honest about it. Secondly, this is madness. The USA in general and Fox News and the Republicans in particular have been shitting their pants over Ebola for the past 8 months. In over a year this epidemic has killed a total of 8641 people, almost all of them in Africa (only 1 in the USA). And yet this epidemic has been used as an excuse to put people under house arrest, quarantine people, ban travel from countries, and point fingers at Barack Obama for some reason. Yet over three times more people a year die, American citizens on American soil, through guns, yet any suggestion of bringing in extra laws to deal with it are met with derision and hostility. Why? This is woefully inconsistent and irrational behaviour. The gun debate is very obviously not about saving human life. The fact is that gun ownership has gone from being a political discussion about the safety of people in society into a tribal conflict for right-wing opinion makers to claim victimization about because "FREEDOM!" A Our murder rate is dropping faster than anyone elses. B Right "oh I don't have a gun so I guess I didn't really want to kill myself". Japan has a much higher suicide rate than we do without gun. C Again that's right, an ebola epidemic could kill millions, which is what people were concerned about, but don't worry about that when we can take someones rights away from them.

Aylee -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/23/2015 8:59:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 And I'm glad you pointed out the one attack which resulted in one man dead which made international news, and yet your infallible memory seems to forget the hundreds of mass shootings your own country has each year which don't make the news because they're so common, reporting on them seems rather redundant. The USA has between three and five mass shootings per year. The thing about mass shootings is that they are dramatic and horrifying, so can be used on 24 hour news networks to drum up a good old drama and rake in the ratings. Mass shootings aren't really the issue, it's the more mundane tens of thousands of people killed and injured by guns not involved in mass shootings that needs to be urgently addressed. In the last year of statistics there were 13,000 firearms murders, to many to be sure but far short of your claim. There are less than 1000 accidents, again to many but far less than the press would have you believe. The rest, a majority, are suicides, and if someone really wants to kill themselves they can jump out of a window, which would make the Brady bunch happier. For a start if you removed the "right" of people to own deadly firearms the suicide rate almost certainly would fall. 30,000 citizens a year lost to guns with many thousands more injured isn't something to ignore. I am not actually advocating any form of gun control, just an acknowledgement that this is an issue. I am not even advocating doing anything about it, perhaps the deaths and injuries from gun violence are worth it for the right to own these weapons? Just be intellectually honest about it. Secondly, this is madness. The USA in general and Fox News and the Republicans in particular have been shitting their pants over Ebola for the past 8 months. In over a year this epidemic has killed a total of 8641 people, almost all of them in Africa (only 1 in the USA). And yet this epidemic has been used as an excuse to put people under house arrest, quarantine people, ban travel from countries, and point fingers at Barack Obama for some reason. Yet over three times more people a year die, American citizens on American soil, through guns, yet any suggestion of bringing in extra laws to deal with it are met with derision and hostility. Why? This is woefully inconsistent and irrational behaviour. The gun debate is very obviously not about saving human life. The fact is that gun ownership has gone from being a political discussion about the safety of people in society into a tribal conflict for right-wing opinion makers to claim victimization about because "FREEDOM!" Did you honestly just say that people commit suicide because of guns? Holy shit.

Kirata -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 12:04:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 I just pay attention to world events No you don't. In 1986, only 8 states had "shall issue" concealed carry laws. By 1991, the number of "shall issue" states had doubled to 16. In 2001, 31 states had "shall issue" concealed carry laws. Five years later it was 37. And by 2013, a total of 42 states had adopted either "shall issue" or unrestricted carry. In every case, opponents predicted mayhem, "Dodge City!" and "Wild West!" But what actually happened was that during that same time period homicide rates fell more than fifty percent. We may, therefore, confidently conclude that some people are either liars or idiots. And in your case, it's both. Case in point: quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 the hundreds of mass shootings your own country has each year K.

Kirata -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 12:15:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek For a start if you removed the "right" of people to own deadly firearms the suicide rate almost certainly would fall. Despite all its guns the United States ranks only 43rd in suicides, behind Norway, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Denmark and France, all of which have much stricter guns laws, with Australia slipping in at 44th by a hair. ~Bulletin of the World Health Organization In 2004, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released its evaluation from a review of 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications, and some original empirical research. It failed to identify any gun control that had reduced violent crime, suicide, or gun accidents. The same conclusion was reached in 2003 by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control’s review of the extant studies... Comparison of "homicide and suicide mortality data for thirty-six nations (including the United States) for the period 1990-1995" to gun ownership levels showed "no significant (at the 5% level) association between gun ownership levels and the total homicide rate. Consistent with this is a later European study of data from 21 nations in which "no significant correlations [of gun ownership levels] with total suicide or homicide rates were found." ~Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy K.

Staleek -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 1:25:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Did you honestly just say that people commit suicide because of guns? Holy shit. No I didn't, try reading it again including the link I provided, more carefully this time. Also look at this link. People who find suicide methods more readily available are more likely to succeed in their suicide attempt, and are more likely to attempt it, because suicidal moods/urges are normally fleeting and transitory. People who reach for help often find themselves surviving, but a gun is so easy to pick up and use. You can ignore the actual science behind this if you like, but you're further reinforcing the stereotype of the "facts are evil!" brand of Republicanism the rest of the world shakes its head at. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD A Our murder rate is dropping faster than anyone elses. B Right "oh I don't have a gun so I guess I didn't really want to kill myself". Japan has a much higher suicide rate than we do without gun. C Again that's right, an ebola epidemic could kill millions, which is what people were concerned about, but don't worry about that when we can take someones rights away from them. A Your murder rate is higher than that of any country in the developed world. B You've cited Japan as a rebuttal, which is a very different culture to the West and suicide is thought of differently there (traditions of Seppuku, Kamikaze, etc). That's hardly a rebuttal. C No Ebola couldn't and wouldn't, and you've proved my point. Rather than look up any facts or sit down and think about the actual threats that face oneself and ones family, most seem to just listen to what they're told by brain-dead TV pundits who have a vested interest in pushing a certain agenda. Hardly a phenomena restricted to the USA, and with modern media the power of propaganda has never been as potent.

Kirata -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 1:50:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Despite all its guns the United States ranks only 43rd in suicides, behind Norway, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Denmark and France, all of which have much stricter guns laws, with Australia slipping in at 44th by a hair. ~Bulletin of the World Health Organization Wrong link, my bad: The link should be to suicide.org. Interestingly enough, other rankings vary. Either they are compiled differently, or else there is a lot of variation from year to year. The Washington Post has a somewhat different ranking. Wikipedia claims to be using the latest data, but there is nothing at the cited link. K.

Kirata -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 1:59:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek You've cited Japan as a rebuttal, which is a very different culture to the West and suicide is thought of differently there (traditions of Seppuku, Kamikaze, etc). That's hardly a rebuttal. And you've cited other Western countries as your example, but the United States has a very different culture in which firearms are thought of differently. If this is how you're going to play, get a pretty assistant and a rabbit. K.

Sanity -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 3:56:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: So I am unsure where this idea that the US is so scary comes from, cause ya know, it really is not. I think it might be because, to the rest of the world, Americans look as though they enjoy killing each other, Aylee. They get their education from Hollywood

Staleek -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 4:08:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek You've cited Japan as a rebuttal, which is a very different culture to the West and suicide is thought of differently there (traditions of Seppuku, Kamikaze, etc). That's hardly a rebuttal. And you've cited other Western countries as your example, but the United States has a very different culture in which firearms are thought of differently. If this is how you're going to play, get a pretty assistant and a rabbit. K. Firearms are indeed thought of differently in the United States. Suicide (which is what we were talking about with that particular exchange) is not. Suicide is thought of the same in both Europe and North America (Mexico excluded, I'm not sure how it is thought of there). The rabbit, in that particular case, belongs to you. Look, I'm not arguing for gun control here. In fact my first post in this thread was a rebuttal to someone who made the outrageous claim there were hundreds of mass shootings every year. I am arguing for facts, which, as is sadly often the case, become second fiddle to emotion. As a direct result of the availability of firearms thousands of US citizens die yearly. That's a fact. That's also, in and of itself, not a reason to enact new gun laws. Hundreds of thousands of Americans will die from the availability of McDonalds, coke and KFC, shall we control those too? Is it really the job of the state to try and make its citizens live as long as possible? Shall we all childproof everything and anything that might cause us injury? That's where the gun control argument is. It isn't, as some conservatives like to make it, "guns don't kill people" (please don't take that out of context; you know I mean by that - the deflection of blame away from guns to anything else). And it isn't, as some liberals like to make it, "people who want guns are bloodthirsty savages, law abiding people don't need them" (there are millions of guns in the USA and only a tiny fraction of them are ever used in a crime or cause injury). I hope that's clarified my position on the matter.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 4:11:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: So I am unsure where this idea that the US is so scary comes from, cause ya know, it really is not. I think it might be because, to the rest of the world, Americans look as though they enjoy killing each other, Aylee. They get their education from Hollywood Not always. Not everyone watches Hollywood! Some get it by living there and seeing it first hand. Others get it by reading independent stats from that thing out there, yanno, the Internet.

DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/24/2015 4:37:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Tell me...which of the following best describes the U.S.? an·ar·chy \ˈa-nər-kē, -ˌnär-\ noun : a situation of confusion and wild behavior in which the people in a country, group, organization, etc., are not controlled by rules or laws Full Definition 1 a :absence of government b :a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c :a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government 2 a :absence or denial of any authority or established order b :absence of order :disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker> http://i.word.com/idictionary/anarchy Reallllly curious as to what your answer is. Since no one else saw fit to answer the question, I'll say 'All Of The Above'. [sm=couch.gif]

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