RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 12:04:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: Musicmystery I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would. I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling reliability of smart guns. The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable.

lovmuffin -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 12:09:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: Musicmystery I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would. I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling reliability of smart guns. The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable. Ya got a link fer that by any chance ? You don't think Muse is going to look something up that doesn't support his misguided opinion ?

Musicmystery -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 12:14:06 PM)
Exactly. Your claim, your evidence. I did actually for reliability, hence my point that I haven't seen any arguments beyond NRA talking points. But certainly others may be aware where this information exists, and can pull it up. If they can't, then yes, its existence is dubious.

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 12:56:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: Musicmystery I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would. I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling reliability of smart guns. The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable. Ya got a link fer that by any chance ? You don't think Muse is going to look something up that doesn't support his misguided opinion ? Unfortunately I saw the story last summer so no, as with the NRA site even if he did he would pretend that it supports his position but I will see if I can find it.

Musicmystery -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 12:58:11 PM)
Shhh. The grown-ups are talking.

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 1:06:22 PM)
From US News Both Keane and Sugarman say that smart gun technology might even make owning a gun less safe, because owners might be less careful with their firearms. And that is Josh Sugarman. The article is titled Why Both the Pro- and Anti-Gun Lobby Are Against 'Smart Guns'

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 1:16:32 PM)
For the whole article www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/01/why-both-the-pro or this from Forbes www.forbes.com/sites/josephsteinberg/2014/05/04/smartguns

Musicmystery -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 1:18:52 PM)
Unfortunately, both are just speculation, beyond pointing out that if your gun needs a battery, a dead battery means a dead gun. On their other point -- wouldn't the safety training you say is sufficient teach smart gun owners not to be careless?

lovmuffin -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 1:22:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: Musicmystery I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would. I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling reliability of smart guns. The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable. Ya got a link fer that by any chance ? You don't think Muse is going to consider something that doesn't support his opinion ? Unfortunately I saw the story last summer so no, as with the NRA site even if he did he would pretend that it supports his position but I will see if I can find it. Why bother, it's out there and there all lots of experts and police agencies saying the same thing. I doubt he'll be convinced even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

lovmuffin -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 1:35:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Exactly. Your claim, your evidence. I did actually for reliability, hence my point that I haven't seen any arguments beyond NRA talking points. But certainly others may be aware where this information exists, and can pull it up. If they can't, then yes, its existence is dubious. I've already done the critical thinking for you.[8D] If you were really interested in the subject you would educate yourself. There are literally hundreds of pages out there if, like I suggested in post #159, you google, * smart gun reliability*. Out there you'll even find that that NJ exempts police agencies from the smart gun law because........wait for it.......here it comes...........their dubious reliability.

Musicmystery -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 1:39:02 PM)
When someone says a car is unreliable, and I ask why, they tell me the problems. You keep repeating unreliable, but you can't seem to come up with any unreliable features. In fact, the one unreliable factor brought up in this thread was mentioned by -- me (the potential battery problem).

lovmuffin -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 1:45:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery .................you can't seem to come up with any unreliable features. In fact, the one unreliable factor brought up in this thread was mentioned by -- me (the potential battery problem). Good for you. You're off to a good start[8D]

Musicmystery -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:02:38 PM)
God help all those battery-impaired folk when they need their smoke detectors to work. But no one is calling smoke detectors "unreliable."

Sanity -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:06:09 PM)
NM

lovmuffin -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:12:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery God help all those battery-impaired folk when they need their smoke detectors to work. But no one is calling smoke detectors "unreliable." So should we do away with them or keep them because they're better than nothing ? Maybe the government could fund some research for smart smoke detectors[8D]

lovmuffin -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:13:27 PM)
OOPs

Musicmystery -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:16:34 PM)
Don't be deliberately dense. Smoke detectors depend on batteries, yet no one calls them unreliable -- they instead remind people to change the batteries once a year. I'm pretty sure gun owners could be trained to do the same, and that failure to do so wouldn't be a fault of the gun.

lovmuffin -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:20:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Don't be deliberately dense. Smoke detectors depend on batteries, yet no one calls them unreliable -- they instead remind people to change the batteries once a year. Yet even the ones that are hard wired in can fail let alone the ones with perfectly good batteries.

BamaD -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:21:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery God help all those battery-impaired folk when they need their smoke detectors to work. But no one is calling smoke detectors "unreliable." So should we do away with them or keep them because they're better than nothing ? Maybe the government could fund some research for smart smoke detectors[8D] Of course no one wants us to go to something less reliable because they aren't perfect. Last time I had a battery run out in a fire detector it went off so I couldn't miss the fact that the battery was going. Maybe smart guns will do the same thing.

Musicmystery -> RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons (1/28/2015 2:27:10 PM)
When there's a design flaw. Like there are in firearms sometimes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_malfunction When there's a smoke alarm failure, it's pulled off the market. Point is, much as you want to dance around it, the only "unreliable" feature anyone so far has named (and that was me!) is that is uses a battery. Gun owners who can't master the art of the battery probably shouldn't have unsupervised access to firearms.

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