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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yet this very post shows you why it is almost impossible to take the fight to them.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And ....

A very common, oft-repeated mantra among pundits and “experts” is that Muslims haven’t roundly condemned the extremism committed in Islam’s name. So many times, we hear people saying, “Where are the Muslim voices in condemnation?” “Why aren’t Muslims speaking up against extremists like ISIS?”

Well, the fact is, Muslims have been speaking out against ISIS and other extremist groups. The problem is, some times, people either don’t know or choose not to know this fact. Enter in this excellent post by Media Matters For America, which documents the round condemnation of ISIS by Muslim groups all across the world:

The Organization Of Islamic Cooperation: The Islamic State Has “Nothing To Do With Islam,” Has Committed Crimes “That Cannot Be Tolerated.” As the Vatican’s internal news source reported, the Secretary General for the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which represents 1.4 billion Muslims in 57 countries around the world, condemned the Islamic State’s persecution of of Christians and other religious minorities in Iraq, saying the “forced deportation under the threat of execution” is a “crime that cannot be tolerated.” According to the Vatican:

The Secretary General also distanced Islam from the actions of the militant group known as ISIS, saying they ‘have nothing to do with Islam and its principles that call for justice, kindness, fairness, freedom of faith and coexistence.’ [Vatican Radio, 7/25/14]

Al-Azhar: Islamic State Is Corrupt And “A Danger To Islam.” Lebanese paper The Daily Star reported that Al-Azhar’s Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt’s highest religious authority, denounced the Islamic State as a threat to Islam and said that the group both violates Sharia law and humanitarian law: “[They] give an opportunity for those who seek to harm us, to destroy us and interfere in our affairs with the [pretext of a] call to fight terrorism.” [The Daily Star, 8/13/14]

Arab League: “Strongly Denounced” The “Crimes Against Humanity” Carried Out By The Islamic State. On August 11, Nabil al-Arabi, the Arab League Chief, denounced acts committed by the Islamic State in Iraq as “crimes against humanity,” demanding that they be brought to justice. According to Al Arabiya News, he said in a statement that he “strongly denounced the crimes, killings, dispossession carried out by the terrorist (ISIS) against civilians and minorities in Iraq that have affected Christians in Mosul and Yazidis.” [Al Arabiya News, 8/11/14]

Turkey’s Top Cleric: Islamic State’s Threats Are “Hugely Damaging,” “Truly Awful.” Turkey’s highest ranking cleric, Mehmet Gormez, decried the Islamic State’s declaration of a “caliphate” and argued that the statements were damaging to the Muslim community, according to Reuters:

“Such declarations have no legitimacy whatsoever,” Mehmet Gormez, head of the Religious Affairs Directorate, the highest religious authority in Turkey, which, although a majority Muslim country, has been a secular state since the 1920s.

“Since the caliphate was abolished … there have been movements that think they can pull together the Muslim world by re-establishing a caliphate, but they have nothing to do with reality, whether from a political or legal perspective.”

Gormez said death threats against non-Muslims made by the group, formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), were hugely damaging.

“The statement made against Christians is truly awful. Islamic scholars need to focus on this (because) an inability to peacefully sustain other faiths and cultures heralds the collapse of a civilization,” he told Reuters in an interview. [Reuters, 7/22/14]

CAIR Repeatedly Condemned The Islamic State As “Un-Islamic And Morally Repugnant.” In a July 7 statement, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) called the terrorist group “un-Islamic and morally repugnant,” noted that the Islamic State’s “human rights abuses on the ground are well-documented,” and called on other Muslim community leaders to speak out against the violence. CAIR reiterated the condemnation of the Islamic State as “both un-Islamic and morally repugnant” on August 11, and on August 21, CAIR once again condemned the group, calling the killing of American journalist James Foley “gruesome and barbaric”:

We strongly condemn this gruesome and barbaric killing as a violation of Islamic beliefs and of universally-accepted international norms mandating the protection of prisoners and journalists during conflicts.

The Geneva Conventions, the Quran – Islam’s revealed text – and the traditions (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad all require that prisoners not be harmed in any way. There can be no excuse or justification for such criminal and bloodthirsty actions.

We also call on those holding Steven Sotloff and other prisoners to immediately release them unharmed so they may return to their loved ones. [Council on American-Islamic Relations, 7/7/14; Council on American-Islamic Relations, 8/11/14; Council on American-Islamic Relations, 8/20/14]

The Muslim Council Of Great Britain: “Violence Has No Place In Religion.” The Muslim Council of Great Britain condemned the Islamic State’s actions and expressed that they do not represent Sunni Muslims, according to The Independent. Shuja Shafi, a member of the council also said: “Violence has no place in religion, violence has no religion. It is prohibited for people to present themselves for destruction.” [The Independent, 7/11/14]

The Islamic Society of North America: The Islamic State’s Actions “Are To Be Denounced And Are In No Way Representative Of What Islam Actually Teaches. The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) released a statement denouncing the Islamic State “for its attacks on Iraq’s religious minorities and the destruction of their places of worship.” ISNA President Imam Mohamed Magid said, “ISIS actions against religious minorities in Iraq violate the Quranic teaching, ‘Let there be no compulsion in religion’ (Surat al-Baqara 2:256),” adding, “Their actions are to be denounced and are in no way representative of what Islam actually teaches.” [The Islamic Society of North America, 8/9/14]

100 Sunni And Shiite U.K. Imams: The Islamic State Is An “Illegitimate, Vicious Group.” As the Huffington Post reported, 100 Sunni and Shiite Imams from the U.K. came together to produce a video denouncing the Islamic State, releasing a statement that they wanted to “come together to emphasise the importance of unity in the UK and to decree ISIS as an illegitimate, vicious group who do not represent Islam in any way.” (Please see below)

Saudi Arabia’s Highest Religious Authority: Terrorists Like The Islamic State Is The “Number One Enemy Of Islam.” On August 19, Al Jazeera reported that Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti, Abdulaziz al-Sheikh, the country’s top religious authority, said that terrorism is anti-Islamic and said that groups like the Islamic State which practice violence are the “number one enemy of Islam”:

Extremist and militant ideas and terrorism which spread decay on Earth, destroying human civilisation, are not in any way part of Islam, but are enemy number one of Islam, and Muslims are their first victims. [Al Jazeera, 8/19/14]

Muslim Public Affairs Council: Condemned The Islamic State And Called For “Stand Against Extremism.” On August 20, the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) released a statement condemning “the barbaric execution of American Journalist James Foley by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).” MPAC urged “all people of conscience to take a stand against extremism” and offered condolences to Foley’s family. MPAC also noted the importance of countering ISIS and other extremist groups by working “to empower the mainstream and relegate extremists to the irrelevance they deserve.” [Muslim Public Affairs Council, 8/20/14]

So, the next time you hear someone say, “Few Muslim voices have condemned ISIS or any other extremist group,” know that this statement is clearly not true.


Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html#BhZLoqv6k7ud6GzL.99

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

This sums up my feelings so much more eloquently than I ever could:

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You know I'm a man that believes in the law; after your family, it's about the only thing you've got to believe in. But there are plenty of men that don't care about the law; men who will take part in all kinds of viciousness and don't care who gets hurt. In fact, the more that get hurt, the better. When you find yourself in a fight with such viciousness, hit first, if you can and when you do hit, hit to kill. You'll know. Don't worry. You'll know, when it comes to that.

Michael

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
SO what suggestions does anyone have about what to do? a standing army wont work, ...this is terrorism.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I have been thinking…lol… yes and it hurts. I have been trying to look at this from the ISIS way of thinking.

The execution of the Jordanian pilot was meant to be revenge and symbolic. Part of the released video showed pictures of burnt…charred…bodies of men women and children that I assume was to have been a result of the aerial bombing by the coalition…thus the burning of the pilot. The final act of burying the cage and burnt body of the Jordanian with bomb debris was to symbolize the destruction of homes.

We in the west, and much of the rest of the world, see this as barbaric…and it is. But is it any less barbaric than the fire bombings of German… British…and Japanese cities in WWII?… Is it any less barbaric than the My Lai massacre? It is less barbaric than water boarding I agree… but not much.

The only difference I can see is the ISIS has directly sponsored, approved, and instigated the murders not to gain or hold territory but simply as a propaganda tool aimed to sacrifice innocents and the helpless to instill fear… will it is working.

We in the west have committed many atrocities over the years but the goal was to defeat an enemy not to destroy all who are not of their sec of Islam with no mercy.

Yes they are barbaric and deserve to be defeated and their leaders brought to justice… But… maybe we should look to our own thoughts and I will bet if honest we are really not so different than they.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Edited to add,
SO what suggestions does anyone have about what to do? a standing army wont work, ...this is terrorism.

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
SO what suggestions does anyone have about what to do? a standing army wont work, ...this is terrorism.

I think the worst thing to do is get directly involved in a blood feud...but now it may be too late, since we're already involved.

But this is a regional issue, so it seems the governments directly involved in and/or proximate to the fighting should be the ones to sort it all out. It's their territory, not ours. Another problem with interventionism is that it could give a boost to the side that we're opposing. Having America as an ally might be seen more as a liability than an asset in some areas of the world. By getting involved, we could actually be hurting the situation more than helping.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Edited to add,
SO what suggestions does anyone have about what to do? a standing army wont work, ...this is terrorism.

At its most basic it is a subtraction problem. You just have to kill enough of them.

You have those that are willing to "fight to the death," and they need to be obliged. This is why I have stated that it will likely take 2-3 million deaths before this stops.

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
SO what suggestions does anyone have about what to do? a standing army wont work, ...this is terrorism.

I think the worst thing to do is get directly involved in a blood feud...but now it may be too late, since we're already involved.

But this is a regional issue, so it seems the governments directly involved in and/or proximate to the fighting should be the ones to sort it all out. It's their territory, not ours. Another problem with interventionism is that it could give a boost to the side that we're opposing. Having America as an ally might be seen more as a liability than an asset in some areas of the world. By getting involved, we could actually be hurting the situation more than helping.

It is a tribal culture. It has always been a blood feud. In fact, that is part of the reason behind Jordan's reaction.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It doesn't start that way either, except in the PR.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They are, however, clear refutation of the "all Islam is inherently against us" bullshit.