quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

I think right now we're being taken for fools. Someone, somewhere is sitting back laughing at us. Too many inconsistencies, too much bullcaca.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SarahCandy

I owe you and the person who made the catfish comment thanks. Thank you both. I am going to take your advice and proceed with caution in more than simply the gift giving, including the standard old school alphabet soup protocols, just to see if he is true to his word. When I go to his country to meet him, if he is not true, I can discard everything, and will only be a short distance away from another location where I can pick up a contracting job easily. After all, I have skills. I was simply trying to figure this out, and to see if such gift requesting has ever been seen through CS. His culture is modern and from the middle east. In the socio-economic class and traditional culture where I came from, New England, making requests like such is considered out of hand, but for all I know it could be the basis for a relationship where he comes from. More over, in the two ethnic cultures that I adopted when I was training and then dominatrixing, Korea and Japan in respective order, senior and junior relationships were filled with gift giving, some sincere, some for appearances, and some for both. These days it is so difficult to see if other have honor. Chingu ya. Dashi Komapsumnida. I will post again upon things playing out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

I think right now we're being taken for fools. Someone, somewhere is sitting back laughing at us. Too many inconsistencies, too much bullcaca.

Bullcaca?

Really?

Bullshit... SAY IT!!! BULLSHIT!

B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.

Bullshit.

You're welcome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrosub

The first Dom I met that introduced me to the BDSM scene told me that I had to pay for everything. We met in town, I bought the drinks. We went to a sex shop, I bought the toys. We went shopping, I bought dinner.

I only met him a couple of times and I started doing my research and realised he was completely taking advantage of me! It didn't help that he was a Doctor and I am a student!! Totally used.

Your alarm bells didn't go off when a man, particularly a professional, fairly mature (has doctorate) man would tell any co-ed working her way through college or otherwise on a student's budget that she would be expected to pay for her dates? Including paying HIS way?

Wtf?

Please tell me that you got to keep the toys for your toybag and that you didn't let him hold onto them or keep them for you.

The best way to prevent yourself from being taken advantage of in the future, is to reverse roles and then ask yourself whether you would require the same of the other party under flipped-around circumstances.

Then pose this question to yourself: If you wouldn't ask this of another person, then why would you go along with what he or she is asking of you? (The same advice to the OP applies -- or to anybody on the face of this earth!)

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
The best way to prevent yourself from being taken advantage of in the future, is to reverse roles and then ask yourself whether you would require the same of the other party under flipped-around circumstances.

Then pose this question to yourself: If you wouldn't ask this of another person, then why would you go along with what he or she is asking of you? (The same advice to the OP applies -- or to anybody on the face of this earth!) [/color]

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

I wasn't thinking of this in terms of D/s dynamics, but interpersonal relationships in general. It does make for a stretching of one's mind to reverse roles, and more so with thinking like your polar opposite, but it can be done if necessary, depending on personal ethos.

- If I am the type of person who would never borrow money and not repay it promptly, would I lend money to a friend who is fiscally irresponsible and risk losing our friendship as a result?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- If I were the owner of an establishment, and I would not ask one of my employees to miss his or her child's pre-planned birthday party celebration (which I had given advance notice about my unavailability that weekend day), is it reasonable of my boss to put me in that position of playing catch-up when another employee is available, capable and willing of performing these last-minute duties?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- If my wife had just given birth, would a considerate husband still expect her to clean house, cook meals, keep up with the laundry unassisted, and attend to my needs as she had customarily done in the past?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- [Insert your own example here.]

Even with D/s, when there is no ownership commitment, is what your Dominant-under-consideration asking of you the submissive a reasonable request under the circumstances? Man to woman, woman to man, person to person.

Obviously, affordability is not the issue, because if it were, nobody would be considering giving NSA gifts to cyber Doms or overextending themselves financially in the first place.

DreamLady

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Why would I lose my friendship? If I know they are fiscally irresponsible and I loan them money, I'm ready to lose that money, and therefore not lose the friendship.

THIS is what I mean when I say do what you're willing to do, and make sure you can afford it.

This isn't about losing friendships. Both of the Doms being discussed illustrated using a (newbie female) sub for monetary benefit. I made a suggestion. You questioned my suggestion and offered an alternative opinion. In expounding upon what I meant that you stated didn't "quite make sense" to you, I have not refuted your opinion.

This is why I have always advised not to lend money or to invest money in stocks or any other high-risk venture that you cannot or are not willing to lose, or cannot manage without.
You may not lose a friendship over money, but it will never be the same once someone has made a promise they (and you know they most likely) cannot keep, which represents their gain at your expense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Yes. Because it's your job.

You are making my point. There is no way two people can think alike.

I am responsible for making my own decisions, not using what I grok of someone else's behavior to determine what to do.

IME, it does not make good business sense to lose valuable employees. You take care of your people. Those who don't, end up paying for it in the long run. An employer is effectively leasing a worker. Only in indentured servitude would a boss be your Master and own your hide.
It's a matter of perspective. If you feel you have no choice but to kiss your boss's backside at every turn, then you are indeed responsible for your decision to stay in a thankless job and not secure yourself a better job opportunity where you stand a better chance of career advancement or of following your bliss.

This is often why people stay in thankless relationships where they are not appreciated or getting their needs met. The common link here is self-esteem and of valuing oneself enough to improve one's condition in life.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Depends. What's your definition of a considerate husband. I know MANY cultures do not miss a beat after having birth.

If I chose to marry a pan and have a child with him, then that consideration would have been discussed ahead of time. If I had an "inconsiderate husband," and still chose to have a baby (perhaps hoping to change him), I kinda deserve what I get.

I think you understood what I meant. It has been stated (and not just by Dr. Phil!) that you teach people how to treat you.
The Golden Rule is to treat others as you would have them treat you. Sometimes you have to teach this to others. My point was, don't tolerate treatment that you yourself would not impose upon or commit against others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

There are plenty of things that D/s and non-D/s relationships do that are unreasonable (naked and waiting at the front door, anyone?). Each individual needs to decide what they are willing to do.

And affordability does come into it. Because if my Dom has a smoking fetish, and I have asthma, I cannot afford to take up smoking...

If my sub enjoys high-end clothing and expects to be taken care of, no matter how much I want to do that, I cannot afford it and will not put myself in debt for it, to compound the situation.

They're not unreasonable if both parties enjoy doing this, and consent to it. Jeopardizing your sub's livelihood is poor judgment on the part of the Dominant, however, if and when actions adversely impact your sub's job performance or chances for upward mobility.
So mutual consent can be the fall-back position, but is not always the most prudent course to take, and would reflect negatively on the Dominant's ability to lead the relationship responsibly.

The critical factor that makes the difference is, are we an "us" or not an "us." Heavily unbalanced, one-sided gains and trade-offs which are absent quid pro quo at the very onset of any relationship or partnership is never a good sign there will ever be an improvement or a promising future to be had with that individual.

DreamLady

(in reply to NookieNotes)

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ORIGINAL: dreamlady

My point was, don't tolerate treatment that you yourself would not impose upon or commit against others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

The critical factor that makes the difference is, are we an "us" or not an "us." Heavily unbalanced, one-sided gains and trade-offs which are absent quid pro quo at the very onset of any relationship or partnership is never a good sign there will ever be an improvement or a promising future to be had with that individual.

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ORIGINAL: SarahCandy
So many phony masters and slaves do not even have a clear philosophy, psychology, sociology, and/or theology of how BDSM is the most natural way to live or a most natural part of life.

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ORIGINAL: SarahCandy
In my case, I want to be the beautiful woman (bimbo sex slave type in tight shiny and heels) of MY dreams in addition to being loved from their heart for being their slave and for what I do for them.