RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/22/2015 6:21:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Illegal employers are criminals. I guess you are right, they are 'evil'.


If one employer uses them they all do, or go out of business

The low wages undercut everyone, and Obama is good with that

Best thing to do is end the Democrats illegal-amnesty-for-votes program, and yes I would climb on board with jail time for any employer who knowingly employs illegals

But first you have to give the illegal aliens due process, which would bog down the system and cost to much (sarcasm font off)

No sarcasm cause yeah you do....or don't you believe in the fucking Constitution ?


Try again

Theyre not citizens, theyre illegal invaders (just as much as if they were an invading army). Because they are invaders they owe no allegiance to the Constitution, nor do they have the constitutional rights that citizens do

They still go in front of a judge.....it;s an immigration case but they can sit in lock up for quite some time before being deported.




BamaD -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/22/2015 6:26:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Illegal employers are criminals. I guess you are right, they are 'evil'.


If one employer uses them they all do, or go out of business

The low wages undercut everyone, and Obama is good with that

Best thing to do is end the Democrats illegal-amnesty-for-votes program, and yes I would climb on board with jail time for any employer who knowingly employs illegals

But first you have to give the illegal aliens due process, which would bog down the system and cost to much (sarcasm font off)

No sarcasm cause yeah you do....or don't you believe in the fucking Constitution ?


Try again

Theyre not citizens, theyre illegal invaders (just as much as if they were an invading army). Because they are invaders they owe no allegiance to the Constitution, nor do they have the constitutional rights that citizens do

They still go in front of a judge.....it;s an immigration case but they can sit in lock up for quite some time before being deported.

You can't go after someone for hiring illegals till you prove they are illegal. So if you can't prosecute illegals because it would tie up the system you can't go after their employers without that proof.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/22/2015 7:32:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Illegal employers are criminals. I guess you are right, they are 'evil'.


If one employer uses them they all do, or go out of business

The low wages undercut everyone, and Obama is good with that

Best thing to do is end the Democrats illegal-amnesty-for-votes program, and yes I would climb on board with jail time for any employer who knowingly employs illegals

But first you have to give the illegal aliens due process, which would bog down the system and cost to much (sarcasm font off)

No sarcasm cause yeah you do....or don't you believe in the fucking Constitution ?


Try again

Theyre not citizens, theyre illegal invaders (just as much as if they were an invading army). Because they are invaders they owe no allegiance to the Constitution, nor do they have the constitutional rights that citizens do

They still go in front of a judge.....it;s an immigration case but they can sit in lock up for quite some time before being deported.

You can't go after someone for hiring illegals till you prove they are illegal. So if you can't prosecute illegals because it would tie up the system you can't go after their employers without that proof.

And maybe, I'll be the only one who thinks this is relevant. I agree that those who hire illegals with no work visas and no other papers should get to sit in a jail cell. Just one problem...if you put Cargill execs and managers, Swift execs and managers, corporate farm execs and managers, etcetera's execs and managers behind bars, can we THEN jail the illegals...excuse me, those without documents including citizenship papers?




BamaD -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/22/2015 7:40:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Illegal employers are criminals. I guess you are right, they are 'evil'.


If one employer uses them they all do, or go out of business

The low wages undercut everyone, and Obama is good with that

Best thing to do is end the Democrats illegal-amnesty-for-votes program, and yes I would climb on board with jail time for any employer who knowingly employs illegals

But first you have to give the illegal aliens due process, which would bog down the system and cost to much (sarcasm font off)

No sarcasm cause yeah you do....or don't you believe in the fucking Constitution ?


Try again

Theyre not citizens, theyre illegal invaders (just as much as if they were an invading army). Because they are invaders they owe no allegiance to the Constitution, nor do they have the constitutional rights that citizens do

They still go in front of a judge.....it;s an immigration case but they can sit in lock up for quite some time before being deported.

You can't go after someone for hiring illegals till you prove they are illegal. So if you can't prosecute illegals because it would tie up the system you can't go after their employers without that proof.

And maybe, I'll be the only one who thinks this is relevant. I agree that those who hire illegals with no work visas and no other papers should get to sit in a jail cell. Just one problem...if you put Cargill execs and managers, Swift execs and managers, corporate farm execs and managers, etcetera's execs and managers behind bars, can we THEN jail the illegals...excuse me, those without documents including citizenship papers?

How can you jail someone for hiring illegal without first proving they are illegal. I'm fine with jailing the employers of illegals but you have to convict the undocumented first to prove the employer hired "undocumented pre-citizens.




slvemike4u -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/22/2015 8:48:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Illegal employers are criminals. I guess you are right, they are 'evil'.


If one employer uses them they all do, or go out of business

The low wages undercut everyone, and Obama is good with that

Best thing to do is end the Democrats illegal-amnesty-for-votes program, and yes I would climb on board with jail time for any employer who knowingly employs illegals

But first you have to give the illegal aliens due process, which would bog down the system and cost to much (sarcasm font off)

No sarcasm cause yeah you do....or don't you believe in the fucking Constitution ?


Try again

Theyre not citizens, theyre illegal invaders (just as much as if they were an invading army). Because they are invaders they owe no allegiance to the Constitution, nor do they have the constitutional rights that citizens do

They still go in front of a judge.....it;s an immigration case but they can sit in lock up for quite some time before being deported.

You can't go after someone for hiring illegals till you prove they are illegal. So if you can't prosecute illegals because it would tie up the system you can't go after their employers without that proof.

What's your point here ?




CreativeDominant -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/22/2015 9:13:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Illegal employers are criminals. I guess you are right, they are 'evil'.


If one employer uses them they all do, or go out of business

The low wages undercut everyone, and Obama is good with that

Best thing to do is end the Democrats illegal-amnesty-for-votes program, and yes I would climb on board with jail time for any employer who knowingly employs illegals

But first you have to give the illegal aliens due process, which would bog down the system and cost to much (sarcasm font off)

No sarcasm cause yeah you do....or don't you believe in the fucking Constitution ?


Try again

Theyre not citizens, theyre illegal invaders (just as much as if they were an invading army). Because they are invaders they owe no allegiance to the Constitution, nor do they have the constitutional rights that citizens do

They still go in front of a judge.....it;s an immigration case but they can sit in lock up for quite some time before being deported.

You can't go after someone for hiring illegals till you prove they are illegal. So if you can't prosecute illegals because it would tie up the system you can't go after their employers without that proof.

And maybe, I'll be the only one who thinks this is relevant. I agree that those who hire illegals with no work visas and no other papers should get to sit in a jail cell. Just one problem...if you put Cargill execs and managers, Swift execs and managers, corporate farm execs and managers, etcetera's execs and managers behind bars, can we THEN jail the illegals...excuse me, those without documents including citizenship papers?

How can you jail someone for hiring illegal without first proving they are illegal. I'm fine with jailing the employers of illegals but you have to convict the undocumented first to prove the employer hired "undocumented pre-citizens.

But...but...but then you tie up the court systems with a civil matter when there's all those REAL criminals (paying taxes by the way).




BamaD -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/22/2015 9:50:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Illegal employers are criminals. I guess you are right, they are 'evil'.


If one employer uses them they all do, or go out of business

The low wages undercut everyone, and Obama is good with that

Best thing to do is end the Democrats illegal-amnesty-for-votes program, and yes I would climb on board with jail time for any employer who knowingly employs illegals

But first you have to give the illegal aliens due process, which would bog down the system and cost to much (sarcasm font off)

No sarcasm cause yeah you do....or don't you believe in the fucking Constitution ?


Try again

Theyre not citizens, theyre illegal invaders (just as much as if they were an invading army). Because they are invaders they owe no allegiance to the Constitution, nor do they have the constitutional rights that citizens do

They still go in front of a judge.....it;s an immigration case but they can sit in lock up for quite some time before being deported.

You can't go after someone for hiring illegals till you prove they are illegal. So if you can't prosecute illegals because it would tie up the system you can't go after their employers without that proof.

What's your point here ?

That we have to go after the illegals in order to prosecute the employers. If you don't want to go after the illegals for what ever excuse you want to use you can't go after the employers. You won't have a case against them.




slvemike4u -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 6:53:16 AM)

A) That's Ron's pet peeve,not mine(though he has a point,jobs are the magnet that pulls the illegals across the border

B)I'm for amnesty and a path to citizenship

C) The apparatus,the bureaucracy necessary in order to successfully deport anywhere near all of the illegals has not been built....and I don't think either of us would want to see it built.
You for financial,small gov.reasons.....me for a distaste for living in a police state(which is what you would need to do in order to do the job)


All the rest of it is nothing more than your sarcasm.




Sanity -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 6:57:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

A) That's Ron's pet peeve,not mine(though he has a point,jobs are the magnet that pulls the illegals across the border

B)I'm for amnesty and a path to citizenship

C) The apparatus,the bureaucracy necessary in order to successfully deport anywhere near all of the illegals has not been built....and I don't think either of us would want to see it built.
You for financial,small gov.reasons.....me for a distaste for living in a police state(which is what you would need to do in order to do the job)


All the rest of it is nothing more than your sarcasm.


Jobs... And all of the government freebies they get

Which, those freebies and the cost to incarcerate the illegals who break our laws etc could help pay for a lot of the costs to deport




igor2003 -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 8:20:27 AM)

-FR-

Personally, I think Ron is on the right track. Eliminate the jobs, and you will eliminate the illegal workers. You wouldn't have to prosecute ALL of the illegals. If you find and prosecute just one or two illegals for any one business, then throw heavy fines and/or sanctions against that employer for that one or two illegal workers, either the business owner would have to eliminate the rest of the illegals to avoid further fines and sanctions, or possibly face the eventuality of having his business shut down due to continued fines and sanctions. Then, the rest of the illegal workers won't need to be caught, fined, housed, and (eventually) deported. With no jobs any more they will find their own way back across the border.

I know that these people come to the U.S. to find a "better life". I know that there are jobs many employers want to fill with low wage workers. I also believe that there are more than enough people that want to come to the country LEGALLY to fill those jobs. So, why not make those jobs available to the people that want to come here by following the rules and regulations rather than to give those jobs to people, that by the very fact that they are here illegally, are criminals? Why promote their illegal activities? Seems to me that rewarding illegal activities just promotes having them break even more laws in the future.

Here is a little tale as an example of what could be done without prosecuting all of the illegals. The winter of '76-'77 I worked at a sugar beet processing plant in SW Idaho. They ran three shifts, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week during the beet season. One morning I went to work and the place was strangely quiet. During the night shift, Immigration had made a raid on the place. The building is 5 stories tall (or was at the time) and some of the people would go onto the roof for their smoke breaks. During the raid, people on the roof said the fields surrounding the sugar plant looked like an ant hill with all of the illegals running away. With none of them left, the legal workers had to shut the plant down to a skeleton crew level. To the best of my knowledge, the company faced no fines or penalties of any sort. But imagine having to shut down to a skeleton crew even once a week AND facing fines and penalties. In very short order it would have been impractical and not profitable for the company to hire the illegal workers in the first place. And not being able to work there, and other companies not willing to hire them, their only real recourse would have been to return to Mexico. LEGAL immigrants would then have had more job opportunities, and the immigration process could probably have been sped up to accommodate them.

Another point to make. . .

For many of the immigrant workers, legal or not, most of the money they make does not stay in the U.S. economy. In the same community where the sugar factory is located, there is one grocery store in particular that, even though their prices are higher than most other grocery stores in the area, they attract the business of the migrant workers through their customer service of cashing and/or processing the migrant workers checks. Nothing wrong with that. But more than once I happened to be there on a Friday late afternoon, when droves of migrant workers would be there to cash in their earnings. MOST of them were trading most or all of their pay checks for money orders that they could send home to Mexico for their families. Now, that is an honorable thing to do. There are a lot of deadbeat dads that could learn a lesson from them. But, personally, I would like to see that money stay in the local economy. Make it easier for the LEGAL immigrants to come here AND bring their families so that the local economy can grow and prosper.

Just my opinion. Yours may, and probably will, vary.




BamaD -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 8:44:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

-FR-

Personally, I think Ron is on the right track. Eliminate the jobs, and you will eliminate the illegal workers. You wouldn't have to prosecute ALL of the illegals. If you find and prosecute just one or two illegals for any one business, then throw heavy fines and/or sanctions against that employer for that one or two illegal workers, either the business owner would have to eliminate the rest of the illegals to avoid further fines and sanctions, or possibly face the eventuality of having his business shut down due to continued fines and sanctions. Then, the rest of the illegal workers won't need to be caught, fined, housed, and (eventually) deported. With no jobs any more they will find their own way back across the border.

I know that these people come to the U.S. to find a "better life". I know that there are jobs many employers want to fill with low wage workers. I also believe that there are more than enough people that want to come to the country LEGALLY to fill those jobs. So, why not make those jobs available to the people that want to come here by following the rules and regulations rather than to give those jobs to people, that by the very fact that they are here illegally, are criminals? Why promote their illegal activities? Seems to me that rewarding illegal activities just promotes having them break even more laws in the future.

Here is a little tale as an example of what could be done without prosecuting all of the illegals. The winter of '76-'77 I worked at a sugar beet processing plant in SW Idaho. They ran three shifts, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week during the beet season. One morning I went to work and the place was strangely quiet. During the night shift, Immigration had made a raid on the place. The building is 5 stories tall (or was at the time) and some of the people would go onto the roof for their smoke breaks. During the raid, people on the roof said the fields surrounding the sugar plant looked like an ant hill with all of the illegals running away. With none of them left, the legal workers had to shut the plant down to a skeleton crew level. To the best of my knowledge, the company faced no fines or penalties of any sort. But imagine having to shut down to a skeleton crew even once a week AND facing fines and penalties. In very short order it would have been impractical and not profitable for the company to hire the illegal workers in the first place. And not being able to work there, and other companies not willing to hire them, their only real recourse would have been to return to Mexico. LEGAL immigrants would then have had more job opportunities, and the immigration process could probably have been sped up to accommodate them.

Another point to make. . .

For many of the immigrant workers, legal or not, most of the money they make does not stay in the U.S. economy. In the same community where the sugar factory is located, there is one grocery store in particular that, even though their prices are higher than most other grocery stores in the area, they attract the business of the migrant workers through their customer service of cashing and/or processing the migrant workers checks. Nothing wrong with that. But more than once I happened to be there on a Friday late afternoon, when droves of migrant workers would be there to cash in their earnings. MOST of them were trading most or all of their pay checks for money orders that they could send home to Mexico for their families. Now, that is an honorable thing to do. There are a lot of deadbeat dads that could learn a lesson from them. But, personally, I would like to see that money stay in the local economy. Make it easier for the LEGAL immigrants to come here AND bring their families so that the local economy can grow and prosper.

Just my opinion. Yours may, and probably will, vary.

First, I am all for legal immigration.
Second you can't say there is no problem with them being here but we will fine you for giving them a job.
You have to start prosecuting illegals to prosecute the employers.
If you go into a business and prosecute 2 of the 20 illegals you are discriminating.
If you prosecute all of them, then make an example of the employer you send a message to other employers.
It still starts with prosecuting illegals, not finding a "path to citizenship" (code for amnesty) there is a path. Enter the country legally and follow the rules. No path can be quicker from the time it is begun than the path for legal immigration.




mnottertail -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 9:05:09 AM)

Well, not to hard to find illegal aliens. There are laws you see. Go thru and check social security number and the other form of id required to be presented and filed in order to hire.

For cops its as simple as where is your birth certificate registered? No got? Where is your green card? No got?

grab up the corporate management to the lowest level. and the alien. they sit in the slam, done for lesser civil (which this is criminal and civil according to law.)




cloudboy -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 9:43:29 AM)


Ron is not on the right track -- we need immigration reform.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 10:34:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Ron is not on the right track -- we need immigration reform.

Code for "amnesty"




lovmuffin -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 11:01:16 AM)

I'm not even willing to talk about a solution until we actually seal the southern border.




Sanity -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 11:29:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

I'm not even willing to talk about a solution until we actually seal the southern border.


Good luck with that, as an open border is the goal

Not much of a secret




BamaD -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 12:21:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

I'm not even willing to talk about a solution until we actually seal the southern border.

That would be the first step to my version of immigration reform, as that is the first step to the solution.




mnottertail -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 12:53:44 PM)

No need to seal the border, and spend and borrow for that when you can easily provide a reason for them not to come rather than come.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 2:03:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003
-FR-
Personally, I think Ron is on the right track. Eliminate the jobs, and you will eliminate the illegal workers. You wouldn't have to prosecute ALL of the illegals. If you find and prosecute just one or two illegals for any one business, then throw heavy fines and/or sanctions against that employer for that one or two illegal workers, either the business owner would have to eliminate the rest of the illegals to avoid further fines and sanctions, or possibly face the eventuality of having his business shut down due to continued fines and sanctions. Then, the rest of the illegal workers won't need to be caught, fined, housed, and (eventually) deported. With no jobs any more they will find their own way back across the border.


The problem with nailing a few illegals and then fining the employer, would be proving the employer knowingly did wrong, or hadn't taken the required steps intended to prevent hiring an illegal alien. If a business put forth the effort to try and prevent hiring an illegal alien, but failed, I don't see a heavy fine as appropriate, unless it's a violation that has been repeated several times. Employers that knowingly hired, or weren't even close to doing their due diligence should be heavily penalized.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Ron is not on the right track -- we need immigration reform.


Yes, he is. And, the penalties (it's already not legal) should be stiffer, according to the extent that illegals were hired (with the caveats noted in this post above). And, it should be part of overall immigration reform.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Kansans can't spend cash assistance on bras or undies (4/23/2015 2:07:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I'm not even willing to talk about a solution until we actually seal the southern border.

That would be the first step to my version of immigration reform, as that is the first step to the solution.


Maybe not my 1st step, but definitely one of the firsts. I do believe kicking up the teeth of the penalties for employers knowingly hiring illegals should be stiffer. Maybe securing the border (can't really "seal" it, and there have been people who have argued against border solutions based on someone using the phrase "seal the border") and stiffening the penalties would be co-first steps. lol




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