USPS Potential scandal

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KenDckey -> USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 7:26:02 AM)
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/05/uspss-inept-vehicle-maintenance-system-wastes-22-mil/ Appears that maintenance is being paid for hours not shown on time cards. 1. Is someone cheating? 2. Are workers being paid for the work that they do? Also it appears that Bonus payments and salaries exceed the legal limit. Why are government employees getting bonus payments?

Aylee -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 8:21:06 AM)
" work order hours that were more than the timecard hours," I can see how that would happen. There are books - probably computer programs now - that tell how long some action should take to do on a particular vehicle. So say a car needs a new alternator. The book says it should take 4.5 hours of labor. So that is what is billed for. Even if it only took the mechanic 3.75 hours to do it. No idea on the whole bonus payments thing.

HunterCA -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 9:32:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee " work order hours that were more than the timecard hours," I can see how that would happen. There are books - probably computer programs now - that tell how long some action should take to do on a particular vehicle. So say a car needs a new alternator. The book says it should take 4.5 hours of labor. So that is what is billed for. Even if it only took the mechanic 3.75 hours to do it. No idea on the whole bonus payments thing. The State of California has been publishing mechanic hours for car repair since the 70's. The State also requires the shop to pat it's mechanic rates in plane site. So a customer can look at a bill, look in the book for the legal hours and the rate posted on the wall and see his bill is fair. But, the shop actually pays the mechanic based on his billable hours. So, for instance, if the book says the work he was assigned should take 12 hours but the mechanic does it in eight, the mechanic gets a bonus beyond his eight hour time card. The shop, of course, takes a cut of the extra 4 hours billed as well. It's standard in the mechanic business here in CA.

Aylee -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 10:34:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee " work order hours that were more than the timecard hours," I can see how that would happen. There are books - probably computer programs now - that tell how long some action should take to do on a particular vehicle. So say a car needs a new alternator. The book says it should take 4.5 hours of labor. So that is what is billed for. Even if it only took the mechanic 3.75 hours to do it. No idea on the whole bonus payments thing. The State of California has been publishing mechanic hours for car repair since the 70's. The State also requires the shop to pat it's mechanic rates in plane site. So a customer can look at a bill, look in the book for the legal hours and the rate posted on the wall and see his bill is fair. But, the shop actually pays the mechanic based on his billable hours. So, for instance, if the book says the work he was assigned should take 12 hours but the mechanic does it in eight, the mechanic gets a bonus beyond his eight hour time card. The shop, of course, takes a cut of the extra 4 hours billed as well. It's standard in the mechanic business here in CA. I do not think that we are actually disagreeing here. Although I doubt all states have the bonus hours given.

HunterCA -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 10:44:18 AM)
No, actually, I was agreeing with you and proposing how a common private practice thing could possibly explain the difference between the work orders and the time cards for the USPO.

DaddySatyr -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 10:56:55 AM)
I remember we had a Chilton's manual that gave the time the job should take (and, to my mind, even that was always padded, a bit.). We always beat the time by a comfortable margin, except this one time, on a Mitsubishi's back breaks where I just couldn't ... Anyway, I don't remember there being a law, at the time (from about '81-'86) but it was standard procedure for all garages to do this so, your comparison is well received. Michael

HunterCA -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 11:16:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I remember we had a Chilton's manual that gave the time the job should take (and, to my mind, even that was always padded, a bit.). We always beat the time by a comfortable margin, except this one time, on a Mitsubishi's back breaks where I just couldn't ... Anyway, I don't remember there being a law, at the time (from about '81-'86) but it was standard procedure for all garages to do this so, your comparison is well received. Michael Chilton...I couldn't remember the name.

joether -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 11:24:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/05/uspss-inept-vehicle-maintenance-system-wastes-22-mil/ Appears that maintenance is being paid for hours not shown on time cards. 1. Is someone cheating? 2. Are workers being paid for the work that they do? Also it appears that Bonus payments and salaries exceed the legal limit. Why are government employees getting bonus payments? Well let's see, the organization has to pay off a $8.3 Billion charge for 'future health services' of all its members. Imagine a mid size company being forced to pay installments on a $8.3 billion charge for all its employees (including the ones just hired). For a small 'ma and pa' store, maybe $950 million. Large corporation? Just a poke $4.2 trillion.... This 'charge' was put in place by the GOP/TP a few years back. An its wrecked havoc on the books ever since. No one organization in the history of America has been forced to handle a charge like this. The GOP/TP wants to break the US Postal Service and allow for privatized organizations that give them kick-backs to charge higher prices to send mail. Without this charge, the US Postal Service would be operating at a good profit. This $22 million would not normally mean much to anyone. 'Judicial Watch' is a right-wing organization. It states may half-truths and a few out right lies. All you have to do is just look at their front page. More so several organizations have shown Judicial Watch to not just be wrong with information, but showed the correct information. Unfortunately the audience of Judicial Watch is not composed of people that 'think critically' on stuff. They dont question nor research if the information is 100% journalistic quality. This organization like others continues to undermine the free flow of good information for a 'political agenda format'. Since the article from Judicial Watch came out on May 12th, its fair to say the research and correct information might not be out just yet. When you 'make shit up' with a conservative slant, it takes some time to seperate the bullshit from the good infomration.

DesideriScuri -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 2:00:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee " work order hours that were more than the timecard hours," I can see how that would happen. There are books - probably computer programs now - that tell how long some action should take to do on a particular vehicle. So say a car needs a new alternator. The book says it should take 4.5 hours of labor. So that is what is billed for. Even if it only took the mechanic 3.75 hours to do it. No idea on the whole bonus payments thing. When the City of Toledo ran the refuse pick up for it's citizens, the drivers and pick up workers were all given routes and were paid their 8 hours, regardless of how fast they got their routes done. One guy I know worked 3-3½ hours a day running his garbage route, and had a part time job off the City books during the 4-5 hours he was still "on the clock" for the City. If they weren't paid their 8 regardless, their routes would take them 8 hours, even if they could get them done in <4 hours. As far as the bonuses go, those are likely negotiated in their employment contracts. We can discuss whether or not there should be bonuses in employment contracts for government workers, but if they're in the contracts, and the employees earned them (according to the contract), then we can't really question the payout of those bonuses.

HunterCA -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 2:06:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee " work order hours that were more than the timecard hours," I can see how that would happen. There are books - probably computer programs now - that tell how long some action should take to do on a particular vehicle. So say a car needs a new alternator. The book says it should take 4.5 hours of labor. So that is what is billed for. Even if it only took the mechanic 3.75 hours to do it. No idea on the whole bonus payments thing. When the City of Toledo ran the refuse pick up for it's citizens, the drivers and pick up workers were all given routes and were paid their 8 hours, regardless of how fast they got their routes done. One guy I know worked 3-3½ hours a day running his garbage route, and had a part time job off the City books during the 4-5 hours he was still "on the clock" for the City. If they weren't paid their 8 regardless, their routes would take them 8 hours, even if they could get them done in <4 hours. As far as the bonuses go, those are likely negotiated in their employment contracts. We can discuss whether or not there should be bonuses in employment contracts for government workers, but if they're in the contracts, and the employees earned them (according to the contract), then we can't really question the payout of those bonuses. Pretty much, in California, those perks negotiated in Union contracts have gone away with cities going bankrupt here. I guess it'll take the Feds going bankrupt for it to all work out with the Post Office.

DesideriScuri -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 2:21:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee " work order hours that were more than the timecard hours," I can see how that would happen. There are books - probably computer programs now - that tell how long some action should take to do on a particular vehicle. So say a car needs a new alternator. The book says it should take 4.5 hours of labor. So that is what is billed for. Even if it only took the mechanic 3.75 hours to do it. No idea on the whole bonus payments thing. When the City of Toledo ran the refuse pick up for it's citizens, the drivers and pick up workers were all given routes and were paid their 8 hours, regardless of how fast they got their routes done. One guy I know worked 3-3½ hours a day running his garbage route, and had a part time job off the City books during the 4-5 hours he was still "on the clock" for the City. If they weren't paid their 8 regardless, their routes would take them 8 hours, even if they could get them done in <4 hours. As far as the bonuses go, those are likely negotiated in their employment contracts. We can discuss whether or not there should be bonuses in employment contracts for government workers, but if they're in the contracts, and the employees earned them (according to the contract), then we can't really question the payout of those bonuses. Pretty much, in California, those perks negotiated in Union contracts have gone away with cities going bankrupt here. I guess it'll take the Feds going bankrupt for it to all work out with the Post Office. I don't have a problem with perks being reduced based on the financial health of the agency. I think it's still a good idea to keep them in some form, though. Those bonuses are meant to give incentive to the workers. If one worker does his/her job at an excellent level, that should be rewarded, else the incentive for excellence is going to be lost. One person can't change everything, and one person wasn't the cause of the budget deficits for the USPS. Saddling every employee with a lost bonus when they held up their end of the bargain isn't a good idea, imo.

KenDckey -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 3:30:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/05/uspss-inept-vehicle-maintenance-system-wastes-22-mil/ Appears that maintenance is being paid for hours not shown on time cards. 1. Is someone cheating? 2. Are workers being paid for the work that they do? Also it appears that Bonus payments and salaries exceed the legal limit. Why are government employees getting bonus payments? Well let's see, the organization has to pay off a $8.3 Billion charge for 'future health services' of all its members. Imagine a mid size company being forced to pay installments on a $8.3 billion charge for all its employees (including the ones just hired). For a small 'ma and pa' store, maybe $950 million. Large corporation? Just a poke $4.2 trillion.... This 'charge' was put in place by the GOP/TP a few years back. An its wrecked havoc on the books ever since. No one organization in the history of America has been forced to handle a charge like this. The GOP/TP wants to break the US Postal Service and allow for privatized organizations that give them kick-backs to charge higher prices to send mail. Without this charge, the US Postal Service would be operating at a good profit. This $22 million would not normally mean much to anyone. 'Judicial Watch' is a right-wing organization. It states may half-truths and a few out right lies. All you have to do is just look at their front page. More so several organizations have shown Judicial Watch to not just be wrong with information, but showed the correct information. Unfortunately the audience of Judicial Watch is not composed of people that 'think critically' on stuff. They dont question nor research if the information is 100% journalistic quality. This organization like others continues to undermine the free flow of good information for a 'political agenda format'. Since the article from Judicial Watch came out on May 12th, its fair to say the research and correct information might not be out just yet. When you 'make shit up' with a conservative slant, it takes some time to seperate the bullshit from the good infomration. Couple things Joe. When I was in the Army, we had a vehicle break down (I was in Africa). The Army wouldn't allow for the repair parts because the vehicle was new and wasn't supposed to break down. We stole an identical vehicle from the AF in Iran and stripped it for parts to repair our vehicle. When I was at Fort Hood, we had contracts with local businesses to make warranty repairs to our vehicles. My experience with budgets and both fed and local levels is that a maintenance budget funds can not be used for operations or any other program. Course, I know of instances where the pilfered funds thru loans that were never repaid (like they did with social security I believe). HunterCA Chiltons is a publishing company that provides maintenance manuals on vehicles to the general public. Sold both online and at your local auto parts store. :D I love them. DS - Solid Waste contracts usually pay by the route. They also usually don't hire enough drivers to cover all the routes. The drivers can then compete (there are different ways but usually on a first done first to get the second route or off duty getting a route) to get extra routes and get paid for them as well. The highest paid employee in one municipality that did this was a solid waste driver. On the plus side the city didn't have to pay benefits for the employees they didn't hire.

MercTech -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 5:34:01 PM)
And I'll wager they were billing concurrent hours as consecutive hours. When two or more items requiring engine access are done concurrently but the bill shows the time as if everything was put back together and disassembled again. Or, billing the time for a tire change and the time for brake pad replacement as if they tire went back on then the tire taken off again to get to the brakes. One of the common ways of padding the labor time for vehicle maintenance.

cloudboy -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 6:31:03 PM)
In other words, Judicial Watch is right in Ken Dickey's wheel house.

KenDckey -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/19/2015 6:41:35 PM)
Not necessarily Cloudboy, but I am sure lots of us know how to pad books in maintenance. Another example, not automotive, to pad the books is to charge by the light bulb to change lights. Most of the time it requires an electrician (contractual). At $45 an hr to figure out what bulb is needed, go get one, and install it it costs a fortune to change a bulb. A smarter way is to change out all the bulbs at one time when they reach their average use life, regardless of if they still work or not. You get a discount in time and materials (purchasing in bulk)

joether -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/20/2015 2:14:20 AM)
Just as an FYI, KenDckey. You might try to BOLD the names when using the format you had in the post of yours. It helps define that your speaking to HunterCA, DS, and myself. Just a suggestion :) quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey Couple things Joe. When I was in the Army, we had a vehicle break down (I was in Africa). The Army wouldn't allow for the repair parts because the vehicle was new and wasn't supposed to break down. We stole an identical vehicle from the AF in Iran and stripped it for parts to repair our vehicle. When I was at Fort Hood, we had contracts with local businesses to make warranty repairs to our vehicles. My experience with budgets and both fed and local levels is that a maintenance budget funds can not be used for operations or any other program. Course, I know of instances where the pilfered funds thru loans that were never repaid (like they did with social security I believe). I find it hard to believe the US Military (in particular the US Army) would be unaware that things do break down. Even stuff 'hot off the shelf'. But, I'll take your word for it. Problem with budgets at the federal and local levels is 'who wrote it on paper' and 'the end user' are very different. In the case of the federal budget, teams of people have to write stuff up that they may not fully understand or know. Or that they can not get into contact with those that have more experience/knowledge of the issue at hand. Thus they have to 'make shit up'. At the local level, the person writing up the budget might just know the people using the maintenance budget on a first name basis. To which they can get steady amounts of feedback in how the budget can be written better.

KenDckey -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/20/2015 2:19:34 AM)
Once my Division wrote into the budget an appropriation for $10,000 for a chingadera. Knowning it would get thrown out when they cut the budget as they promissed. LOL They didn't cut the budget that year and actually increased the chingadera allocation by 10%. Shows how much politicians actually read the budget. This was in Cali

bounty44 -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/20/2015 1:34:46 PM)
I am all for the dissolution of the usps from the government and while keeping an absolute minimal hand in the mix, allowing the postal services do be done by private enterprise.

KenDckey -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/20/2015 1:41:13 PM)
Seems to work for their competition.

Aylee -> RE: USPS Potential scandal (5/20/2015 4:09:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 I am all for the dissolution of the usps from the government and while keeping an absolute minimal hand in the mix, allowing the postal services do be done by private enterprise. That is actually one of Congress's enumerated powers. Do you REALLY think that they are going to give it up?

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