RE: Big Money in Elections

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tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 8:13:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Blue billionaires on top POLITICO’s list of Top 100 donors of disclosed money tilts leftward. Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/blue-billionaires-on-top-114151.html#ixzz3bwzulenT to quote your article.. "Of course, that edge doesn’t take into account contributions to deep-pocketed non-profit groups that don’t disclose their donors. They heavily favored Republicans, with reports showing conservative secret money non-profits outspending liberal ones $127 million to $33 million. While that’s just a fraction of the overall undisclosed money spent in 2014, it’s indicative of a dramatic imbalance in a type of big money spending that likely would close the gap between Democratic and Republican top donors, if not put Republicans ahead."

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 8:17:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Governing is second now to fund raising. I think in US politics, it always was...

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 8:22:48 AM)
Which is why Dems propagandize so much about "dark money" - they want their share, and if they cant have it they want to cut off the Republicans' funding. Exactly like they howled about PACs, until they caught up to the Republicans then it wasnt such a big deal after all (BTW, overall, the article says that the parties are almost even in campaign fundraising) Tempest in a teapot Less than 1 percent of people said money in politics or campaign fundraising was the most important issue facing the country.

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 9:03:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Which is why Dems propagandize so much about "dark money" - they want their share, and if they cant have it they want to cut off the Republicans' funding. Exactly like they howled about PACs, until they caught up to the Republicans then it wasnt such a big deal after all (BTW, overall, the article says that the parties are almost even in campaign fundraising) Tempest in a teapot Less than 1 percent of people said money in politics or campaign fundraising was the most important issue facing the country. campaign fundraising is only part of the money-in-politics problem.. its the continual lobbying and backroom deals (which is also money-in-politics) that happen in between elections.. it is also that industry lobbying that causes campaign promises to voters to be broken or mutilated beyond what was originally intended.. "84 percent of people -- 80 percent of Republicans and 90 percent of Democrats -- believe money has too much influence in American politics."

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 9:28:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Which is why Dems propagandize so much about "dark money" - they want their share, and if they cant have it they want to cut off the Republicans' funding. Exactly like they howled about PACs, until they caught up to the Republicans then it wasnt such a big deal after all (BTW, overall, the article says that the parties are almost even in campaign fundraising) Tempest in a teapot Less than 1 percent of people said money in politics or campaign fundraising was the most important issue facing the country. campaign fundraising is only part of the money-in-politics problem.. its the continual lobbying and backroom deals (which is also money-in-politics) that happen in between elections.. it is also that industry lobbying that causes campaign promises to voters to be broken or mutilated beyond what was originally intended.. The right to petition the government was always intended. If you dont believe that smart, industrious, successful people should be allowed to be involved in government, I suppose you believe government should be the exclusive domain of the Baltimore rioters. And that they should be given plenty of room to destroy, too... quote: "84 percent of people -- 80 percent of Republicans and 90 percent of Democrats -- believe money has too much influence in American politics." Less than 1% think its important though, as I showed above. Whats the percentage of people who think they should exercise more, and eat healthier? Probably about the same.

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 10:23:43 AM)
FR [img]http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/KcunjkaTp8Hd3my2EqHsSQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTQzMztweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz01MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/tt150526.gif[/img]

mnottertail -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 11:04:17 AM)
And only hillary is right. I believe that individuals or groups have the right to seek a redress of their grievances from the government. Lobbying payoffs and perks are not a redress of grievances. That was never intended.

HunterCA -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 11:15:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I never said it was...only that the whinning in here lately has been all about hilary, or soros, or clinton, or clinton foundation, money for speeches and expectations....but nothing about the other side....the fact that the two stories i linked to today talk about the very same thing...seemed appropos.. Please feel free to change the subject, derail, bloviate at will. Its all you have. Have a nice day Perhaps the fact (not challenging it) that there has been an awful lot about Hilary, the Clinton's, or the Clinton Foundation lately, just might have to do with Hillary getting into the race and, oh, I don't know, news? At some point, she'll fall out of the news headlines a bit, and someone in the GOP will pop up, but, at the moment, it's Hillary. Um, yeah..you notice, theres little OTHER news, or mention of any other "corruption and big money" from the right". which is why I posted this thread You will also notice that no one has anything of note to mention unless, its "fighting back against the hilary, or the clintons, or obama, or, lefties in general, lots of derail...not even you....have anything to say about the kochs giving nearly one billion for ONE election. Lucy, we hear enough whining from the left. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122835139848377873 http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/harry-reid-koch-brothers-108632.html quote: In a year during which little of consequence is being done in the Senate, hardly a week goes by in which Reid doesn’t take to the floor to attack the Kochs’ influence in politics. Since late January, Reid has mentioned the Kochs in 22 separate floor speeches, calling them out about 250 times, either by name (including referring to them as “Charlie and Dave”) or allusion (“two power-drunk billionaires”), and blaming them for all manner of ills including holding up aid to Ukraine. Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/harry-reid-koch-brothers-108632.html#ixzz3c1YN95AQ

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 11:34:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Which is why Dems propagandize so much about "dark money" - they want their share, and if they cant have it they want to cut off the Republicans' funding. Exactly like they howled about PACs, until they caught up to the Republicans then it wasnt such a big deal after all (BTW, overall, the article says that the parties are almost even in campaign fundraising) Tempest in a teapot Less than 1 percent of people said money in politics or campaign fundraising was the most important issue facing the country. campaign fundraising is only part of the money-in-politics problem.. its the continual lobbying and backroom deals (which is also money-in-politics) that happen in between elections.. it is also that industry lobbying that causes campaign promises to voters to be broken or mutilated beyond what was originally intended.. The right to petition the government was always intended. If you dont believe that smart, industrious, successful people should be allowed to be involved in government, I suppose you believe government should be the exclusive domain of the Baltimore rioters. And that they should be given plenty of room to destroy, too... quote: "84 percent of people -- 80 percent of Republicans and 90 percent of Democrats -- believe money has too much influence in American politics." Less than 1% think its important though, as I showed above. Whats the percentage of people who think they should exercise more, and eat healthier? Probably about the same. its way too lopsided.. there are 318+ million americans, and the number of big corps and lobbyists are small in comparison.. so it is actually very undemocratic as you have a minority (being the # of those big corps/lobbyists) that have control over the govt & the majority in this country.. its the tail wagging the dog..

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 11:41:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity FR [img]http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/KcunjkaTp8Hd3my2EqHsSQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTQzMztweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz01MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/tt150526.gif[/img] that just proves how stupid people are (to actually pay good money to listen to speeches by her, her skirt-chasing hubby, or any other politician out to make a buck.. that includes anyone buying Bush's book)..

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 11:48:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 its way too lopsided.. there are 318+ million americans, and the number of big corps and lobbyists are small in comparison.. so it is actually very undemocratic as you have a minority (being the # of those big corps/lobbyists) that have control over the govt & the majority in this country.. its the tail wagging the dog.. "Undemocratic"? First of all, the USA isnt supposed to be democratic, its supposed to be a Republic because the founders recognized that a "democracy" is essentially two wolves and a sheep voting on the dinner menu. Its mob rule, as it was recently in Baltimore (as I eluded to earlier). Second, how is it "undemocratic" when its only "lopsided" in that each of the Americans you mentioned gets exactly one vote (unless the district is supervised by Democrats of course), while the hated evil mean "big corps" (aka "employers" or "producers") get exactly no votes How is the ability to buy political advertising, which is the same as speech in the age of mass media, "undemocratic" I think what youre looking for isnt democracy, as much as it is totalitarianism with an Orwellian spin on it

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 11:51:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 that just proves how stupid people are (to actually pay good money to listen to speeches by her, her skirt-chasing hubby, or any other politician out to make a buck.. that includes anyone buying Bush's book).. Stupid is the right word, but youre pointing it in the wrong direction They arent paying to listen to speeches, they are buying influence and favors

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 12:14:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 its way too lopsided.. there are 318+ million americans, and the number of big corps and lobbyists are small in comparison.. so it is actually very undemocratic as you have a minority (being the # of those big corps/lobbyists) that have control over the govt & the majority in this country.. its the tail wagging the dog.. "Undemocratic"? First of all, the USA isnt supposed to be democratic, its supposed to be a Republic because the founders recognized that a "democracy" is essentially two wolves and a sheep voting on the dinner menu. Its mob rule, as it was recently in Baltimore (as I eluded to earlier). Second, how is it "undemocratic" when its only "lopsided" in that each of the Americans you mentioned gets exactly one vote (unless the district is supervised by Democrats of course), while the hated evil mean "big corps" (aka "employers" or "producers") get exactly no votes How is the ability to buy political advertising, which is the same as speech in the age of mass media, "undemocratic" I think what youre looking for isnt democracy, as much as it is totalitarianism with an Orwellian spin on it the one person one vote doesnt compare to the power big corps/lobbyists have over politicians and govt.. american voters don't have the money to compete with that.. especially since they pay more in wage tax than corps pay in tax.. if votes mattered as much as lobbyists did, corps would pay more and not have the loopholes such as being able to negotiate past, present and future tax rates (in secret) with the f'n IRS!!!!.. known as Advance Pricing Agreements.. that is why big corps like Microsoft, google, oracle, amazon, etc pay half what the official corporate tax rate is!.. "The tax break that corporate America wants kept secret Oracle had nearly halved its tax bill. It paid $2.6 billion in cash income taxes on pre-tax income of nearly $13.9 billion, a rate of just under 19%."

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 12:27:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 that just proves how stupid people are (to actually pay good money to listen to speeches by her, her skirt-chasing hubby, or any other politician out to make a buck.. that includes anyone buying Bush's book).. Stupid is the right word, but youre pointing it in the wrong direction They arent paying to listen to speeches, they are buying influence and favors lol.. well then it would a lot smarter to pass on wasting time listening to the boring speeches and just write a check & toss it in the mail.. but i seriously doubt that Hillary notices everyone sitting there listening to her or gives them any influence or favors.. its just a sea of faces to her, i expect.. The ones that get the favors and influence are invited to much more intimate & private gatherings.. here is one.. "900 guests went for up to $3,000".. how is a few thousand gonna buy any influence at all? she wouldnt even know who the fuck you are, you are just a name and number on a list for her flunkies to call, text and email repeatedly when its election time.. you need to add several zeros onto that before she or any politician would notice you.. http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-what-225000-and-pair-nikes-buys-you

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 12:31:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 the one person one vote doesnt compare to the power big corps/lobbyists have over politicians and govt.. american voters don't have the money to compete with that.. especially since they pay more in wage tax than corps pay in tax.. if votes mattered as much as lobbyists did, corps would pay more and not have the loopholes such as being able to negotiate past, present and future tax rates (in secret) with the f'n IRS!!!!.. known as Advance Pricing Agreements.. that is why big corps like Microsoft, google, oracle, amazon, etc pay half what the official corporate tax rate is!.. "The tax break that corporate America wants kept secret Oracle had nearly halved its tax bill. It paid $2.6 billion in cash income taxes on pre-tax income of nearly $13.9 billion, a rate of just under 19%." No, wrong again. The power of American citizens to vote is more power. People just arent interested though, they dont pay attention. Or when they do, far too many rely on the kind of far left talking points that you keep repeating, and other mindless lies and propaganda All taxes are passed down to the average taxpayer, for example. Corporations will always make their bottom line while passing cost increases (including any new taxes) onto you But here you are, screaming tax me. Please sir, can I have another.

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 12:39:40 PM)
Thats a nice cherry you picked there, sure. Did you see this comment under it? quote: Money Hillary raised... $350K What Hillary earned... $225K What the Bellagio cost... $200K What the staff was paid to organize... $30K Screwing over the students with higher tuition... Priceless. Also very convenient how you first rail against corporate influence in politics... Then somehow miss the $104.9 million one Clinton alone pocketed from giving speeches to big corporations (many of them overseas corporations, while his Secretary of State wife made decisions crucial to them) http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-clintons-went-from-dead-broke-to-rich-bill-earned-1049-million-for-speeches/2014/06/26/8fa0b372-fd3a-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 12:50:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 the one person one vote doesnt compare to the power big corps/lobbyists have over politicians and govt.. american voters don't have the money to compete with that.. especially since they pay more in wage tax than corps pay in tax.. if votes mattered as much as lobbyists did, corps would pay more and not have the loopholes such as being able to negotiate past, present and future tax rates (in secret) with the f'n IRS!!!!.. known as Advance Pricing Agreements.. that is why big corps like Microsoft, google, oracle, amazon, etc pay half what the official corporate tax rate is!.. "The tax break that corporate America wants kept secret Oracle had nearly halved its tax bill. It paid $2.6 billion in cash income taxes on pre-tax income of nearly $13.9 billion, a rate of just under 19%." No, wrong again. The power of American citizens to vote is more power. People just arent interested though, they dont pay attention. Or when they do, far too many rely on the kind of far left talking points that you keep repeating, and other mindless lies and propaganda All taxes are passed down to the average taxpayer, for example. Corporations will always make their bottom line while passing cost increases (including any new taxes) onto you But here you are, screaming tax me. Please sir, can I have another. there is mindless propaganda on both sides, both from the Ds & the Rs.. the lobbyists and big corps win no matter which party wins, corps and lobbyists try to manipulate both parties (& frequently donate to both).. I am not screaming tax me, I believe in fairness and if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire.. big corps have unfair advantages that small business doesnt have.. and when Oracle halved its taxes, it wasnt a benefit to consumers or taxpayers, it was a benefit to shareholders (whose dividend doubled).. https://fortune.com/2013/07/22/the-tax-break-that-corporate-america-wants-kept-secret/

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 1:00:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Thats a nice cherry you picked there, sure. Did you see this comment under it? quote: Money Hillary raised... $350K What Hillary earned... $225K What the Bellagio cost... $200K What the staff was paid to organize... $30K Screwing over the students with higher tuition... Priceless. Also very convenient how you first rail against corporate influence in politics... Then somehow miss the $104.9 million one Clinton alone pocketed from giving speeches to big corporations (many of them overseas corporations, while his Secretary of State wife made decisions crucial to them) http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-clintons-went-from-dead-broke-to-rich-bill-earned-1049-million-for-speeches/2014/06/26/8fa0b372-fd3a-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html i didnt cherry pick it, it was at the top on googles first page, i didnt look any further.. I was simply looking for an example of the number of tickets sold and the cost of public speeches.. of course they are a scam.. didnt i already say that??? and private "speeches" given to big corporations are just veiled donations & payoffs, they shouldnt be called speeches.. those are entirely different and yes, those payments are to buy influence..

Sanity -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 1:13:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 there is mindless propaganda on both sides, both from the Ds & the Rs.. the lobbyists and big corps win no matter which party wins, corps and lobbyists try to manipulate both parties (& frequently donate to both).. I am not screaming tax me, I believe in fairness and if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire.. big corps have unfair advantages that small business doesnt have.. and when Oracle halved its taxes, it wasnt a benefit to consumers or taxpayers, it was a benefit to shareholders (whose dividend doubled).. https://fortune.com/2013/07/22/the-tax-break-that-corporate-america-wants-kept-secret/ Though the IRS is a political tool under the Obama regime, I think your IRS issues are another completely separate topic

tj444 -> RE: Big Money in Elections (6/3/2015 1:45:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 there is mindless propaganda on both sides, both from the Ds & the Rs.. the lobbyists and big corps win no matter which party wins, corps and lobbyists try to manipulate both parties (& frequently donate to both).. I am not screaming tax me, I believe in fairness and if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire.. big corps have unfair advantages that small business doesnt have.. and when Oracle halved its taxes, it wasnt a benefit to consumers or taxpayers, it was a benefit to shareholders (whose dividend doubled).. https://fortune.com/2013/07/22/the-tax-break-that-corporate-america-wants-kept-secret/ Though the IRS is a political tool under the Obama regime, I think your IRS issues are another completely separate topic not at all, who do you think lobbied govt for that loophole? (those that can benefit from it)...

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