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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/20/2015 11:52:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I don't engage in the public scene, nor do I want someone who is to the point they have "references".

So, to help me understand this POV, you would not want someone who was conscientious enough to say, "Hey, I know we're online and we may have only met a few times, but there are many people here locally who can vouch for my character, here is a way to get that information, if you'd like..."?

I mean, I understand if you don't want a play slut. It's not really my thing, either. However, I'm not sure what that has to do with ANY references, or whether they can offer them.

It's exactly as Spiritedsub said. References are for job interviews, not relationships. I would never even deal with someone who offered me references. I'm a grown woman whose been doing this stuff since age 16.

Never had need beyond my own instinct, intelligence and ability to discern unsafe situations.

I am sorry, but I truly find references to be absurd, unless you seeking only a specific activity that requires some experience. But that is not the same as references which are subjective.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/21/2015 12:35:20 AM

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I can see the value of references for this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
, unless you seeking only a specific activity that requires some experience.

But beyond that.... there are so many things that determine whether you're likely to be compatible with someone, that it seems to me the only way you can really answer the questions "is this person experienced enough for me?" or "is this person right for me?" is to meet them face to face and have a natter.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/21/2015 1:13:58 AM

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I had almost an entire post for this thread, the other day. I was almost finished and Puppy started whining and carrying on and it turned out the poor thing had a bit of a bad tummy so, I was away from the computer for quite some time and lost the post.

I see, in the interim, a few people feel pretty much as I do. Let me see if I can re-produce the post:

I'm not someone who goes to a lot of munches. I don't do public play (nor do I enjoy watching it) so dungeons are not my thing.

Since I don't do play partner "relationships", I have no "references" in any of those arena.

I've only lived here a little over two years. Most of the karaoke joints suck and, other than that, I'm not much of a bar fly. However, there are a couple of places where people "know" me (The local Outback restaurant and the Fridays and a mom-and-pop joint, where I go to watch football).

If the issue is a question of my character, as long as it isn't outside the lady's comfort zone, I would have her meet me at one of these places so that she can be introduced to people who know me.

As far as any of the BDSM activities, I don't know that experience matters, per se, once you've established that the guy is not out to damage you, but to have a little fun. Once you know the person is trustworthy, honorable, and compis mentis, you can safely explore together.

Michael

P.S.: For those keeping score: That bears little resemblance to the post I had ready, the other day.

M.P.C.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/21/2015 3:08:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I don't engage in the public scene, nor do I want someone who is to the point they have "references".

So, to help me understand this POV, you would not want someone who was conscientious enough to say, "Hey, I know we're online and we may have only met a few times, but there are many people here locally who can vouch for my character, here is a way to get that information, if you'd like..."?

I mean, I understand if you don't want a play slut. It's not really my thing, either. However, I'm not sure what that has to do with ANY references, or whether they can offer them.

It's exactly as Spiritedsub said. References are for job interviews, not relationships. I would never even deal with someone who offered me references. I'm a grown woman whose been doing this stuff since age 16.

Never had need beyond my own instinct, intelligence and ability to discern unsafe situations.

I am sorry, but I truly find references to be absurd, unless you seeking only a specific activity that requires some experience. But that is not the same as references which are subjective.

Hmmm. Interesting. I find this fascinating.

You would instantly remove someone from potential partnership if they even offered references.

*shrugs*

I think references are important for casual play and for those who do not have a good track record of picking the best people. I am not one who asks for references, because I trust myself, and I have never had an issue with picking the people in my life. I am, instead, one who always offers references and ways to vet me, because so many submissives have been burned and don't trust their own internal pickers anymore.

I also rarely choose people from munches or events, because I find the community (which I am very active in, and it's a pretty large one) still way to incestuous for me. I prefer to "import" my talent.

And I rarely play publicly in any meaningful fashion, although I love watching it, and know many of the local players, and who is the safest, most conscientious, and etc.

That said, if someone offered me references, I certainly would not be turned off. I may even check them, just to make sure that it wasn't a blind.

To have strong negative feelings about them is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/21/2015 8:24:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aislinne

I don't want to be someone's experiment, just because it's in your head doesn't man you actually know what your doing. I trust him to not be impaired during a scene. So that's not an issue. But if I'm going to bare my flesh to someone. I want to know they know what they are doing. Anyone can read a book, or watch a movie. A lot of this is head games I am very aware of that too.

I suppose asking him straight out what his experience is would be a good place to start.

IME, references are not worth the words they're spoken with.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/21/2015 11:16:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aislinne

I don't want to be someone's experiment, just because it's in your head doesn't man you actually know what your doing. I trust him to not be impaired during a scene. So that's not an issue. But if I'm going to bare my flesh to someone. I want to know they know what they are doing. Anyone can read a book, or watch a movie. A lot of this is head games I am very aware of that too.

I suppose asking him straight out what his experience is would be a good place to start.

IME, references are not worth the words they're spoken with.

I almost never believe what partners or former partners say about each other. Two sides to all such stories IME.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/23/2015 4:32:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am sorry, but I truly find references to be absurd, unless you seeking only a specific activity that requires some experience. But that is not the same as references which are subjective.

That's great if what you do works for you. But everyone is different. People approach things differently. And the fact is that in this lifestyle, people ask for references all the time. Its actually a thing. To call it absurd paints a whole lot of people in a bad light. IMO, ridiculing people who seek references is akin to ridiculing people for their kink or how they approach it. Whatever happened to YKINMK?

And its not like people are talking about submitting a formal reference sheet with names and contact info it. Asking people about someone, even if they are friends and there is a chance they could lie to you, is not very different than scoping someone out through profiles, posts, friends lists, grapevine, etc.

In the end, everything comes down to having to make a decision about someone based on information at hand. You have to decide which information you have is reliable, which is relevant, which is questionable. You get information about people from all types of sources and mediums. A reference is nothing but another piece of information that you evaluate. And there is no reason to ridicule it anymore than ridiculing someone's kink, just because you would never do it.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/24/2015 5:59:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aislinne

So I have been talking with a Dom, and I have a question in regards to his past experience, is it okay to ask for references? How do I inquire about experience level without offending him

For me, it would be important to know more about what your interest is in this Dom. If it is strictly play, and you intend no intimacy, then it is akin to a business transaction and in that case I think it is appropriate to ask for references.

If you are looking for a Dom with which to have an intimate relationship ultimately, then asking for references would be as odd and inappropriate as asking a date for references. In that case you just have to get to know them and judge for yourself.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/24/2015 8:11:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Hmmm. Interesting. I find this fascinating.

You would instantly remove someone from potential partnership if they even offered references.

I would have, and did.
Because I was looking for a long term monogamous relationship with someone else who also only wanted to be involved in that manner.

References tell me that a person plays casually often.

I've never seen anyone give their ex wife of 25 years as a reference. For that matter, I wouldn't have offered my ex husband as a reference either.

However the op wants to know how to tell if someone knows to do certain play safely. References may or may not tell you that.

What will tell her that is her learning how to do that play safely. Then she can ask how he cleans his toys or where he buys his sharps from, or how he's mounted his attachment points. If he says he just put the bolt into a 2 x 4 and she knows it needs to be mounted through a 4 x 4 minimum, and 6 x 6 is better, with a lock washer and a nut to prevent it backing out during dynamic load, then she'll know if he knows what he's doing or not.

References won't tell her those kinds of details. Becoming educated herself will.
I'm a firm believer in bottoms learning these things. That way there are two people looking out for their safety, not just one.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 9/25/2015 8:26:52 PM

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There's no magical rule book written in Dumbinant Ink. There's no Secret Society of Ainshunt Yrpeein Houses of Dumbination. There's a bunch of people out there, ranging from fairly decent humans who treat others as human, to absolute raging psychopaths. Outside of specific skills that have relevance to safety (e.g. rigging) experience is fucking meaningless. Listen, someone with 20 years of doing the same shit wrong over and over again isn't doing it right. And "being well known in the local scene" doesn't mean shit. If you like being a lifestyle, awesome--go to all the munches and wear all the leather vests, if that makes you happy. But anyone who tries to argue for "prominence in the scene" is serving one interest: theirs.

How about this: talk to people. Listen to them. Use good judgement. Be an adult, competent human with normal social skills, treat other people decently, and look for that in return. You'll be fab.

< Message edited by Faramir -- 9/25/2015 8:27:22 PM >

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 10/23/2015 12:29:41 PM

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Cheeky little scamp I would thrash you this way and that way for you lip if you were talking about me.
References are only as good as the people giving them and therein lies a humongous flaw.
Scene aside I wonder what my exes would say of me and my exes friends. Liars and misinformed urchins cannot give an informed opinion, methinks, and they are the many on these places…it is how it is.

Your first point is as nooks (id ravish that one if it let me get my grubby paws on it) with the niche tache (tash) and barren side burns –
Establish he is who he says he is…sighs I know may on these places still do not and get sucked in.
Does no harm to ask around but examine who you have asked and their words. Has he asked you for references I doth wonder.
Is it domly reference you need and for what purpose

Clubs munches I have no plans to ever go back and it’s been a decade since I last went. Because he does not go, or you do not go, do not make you anything less, or more than yous claim to be.

But if you are uncertain of him as a person frankly I have no idea why you are still talking to him. I concede there is much smoke and mirrors- but that exits everywhere, granted it is more concentrated on fet swinger sex sites.

(in reply to angelikaJ)

RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 10/23/2015 12:33:04 PM

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quote:

say of me and my exes friends....

You're not a proper Englishman, are you?

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 10/23/2015 1:10:15 PM

Kana

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You shouldn't have to ask their experience. A few questions should give you a good idea if he's a moron or has a clue.
Ask him about some pretty typical wankjob shit (Stuff like being naked all the time) that works great in fantasy but not in reality (Cuz who's paying the heat bill. And what happens when its that time of month. Those gritty little details of reality that so rudely shatter fantasy).
More so, see if he can key in on the internal stuff, the things that hit inside.
If you've been around the block a time or two, it shouldn't be hard to tell.
Grins.
If not, hang out here for a while. C-Space will leave you with radar that bats would envy

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 10/24/2015 1:51:41 AM

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What Kana said!

I've never looked for a play partner, always for a relationship.

I've never jumped straight into play - I kept those hormones reined in and actually dated the guy first. Lots of talking, lots of getting to know each other, then taking things slow.

Of course there were a couple of guys that wanted to get down and dirty straight away and they were sent on their way because, quite frankly, they were not what I was looking for.

I held out for quality, and I got it. Six years together and no plans to change it

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 10/24/2015 11:10:34 PM

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Agreed. Also, I have to know if we have great vanilla sex before introducing kink.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 10/25/2015 2:07:46 PM

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The proof is in the pudding. Ask him to describe what kind of play he likes or his favourite scene that he has done.

When Doms have no experience, they either don't know what to say, or they make up the most rubbish, unsafe, stupid sounding scenes that would injure someone, or get them arrested.

When Doms do have experience, they speak with clear and obvious honesty about what they like and have done.

So ask him about his play and see what he says. If there are red flags, if doesn't matter if he has experience or not. Alternatively, if it sounds good, he may be fun to play with.

(in reply to Aislinne)

RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 10/25/2015 2:25:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetieDA

The proof is in the pudding. Ask him to describe what kind of play he likes or his favourite scene that he has done.

When Doms have no experience, they either don't know what to say, or they make up the most rubbish, unsafe, stupid sounding scenes that would injure someone, or get them arrested.

When Doms do have experience, they speak with clear and obvious honesty about what they like and have done.

So ask him about his play and see what he says. If there are red flags, if doesn't matter if he has experience or not. Alternatively, if it sounds good, he may be fun to play with.

This totally.

Kink compatibility is one of the most important aspects in a relationship for me. I don't have/like vanilla sex, so if we're not compatible kink wise, we're not compatible period.
So I usually ask him about his previous experiences/scene, as well as fantasies he has that he's yet to live out.

How he talks about what he wants and what he's done will usually give you a pretty good sense of how experienced he is. There's little details that show a guy is full of shit and only knows kink from porn so far when he talks about what he's done. Not that inexperience is an issue for me per say either. My husband wasn't very experienced when we first met. But he never lied about what areas he lacked experience in, and was realistic in what he wanted to gain experience in.

If it's not clear from those questions, I usually ask him to give some examples of things that have gone wrong in kink/scenes before, and how he's handled those situations when they arose. Anybody who has actually played half-way seriously more than a few times has had stuff go wrong... especially in the beginning, because things don't always go the way you picture them before trying stuff out for real.

The only time I care about references is if I'm considering a collar with a man who claims to have experience training kajirae, because that means something very specific. At that point, how his previous girls turned out is very relevant to the whole premise the relationship would be built on, so I insist on talking to previous kajirae he's owned.

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 11/6/2015 4:45:54 PM

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I have to agree with red and spirited.

"Experience Level" is a loaded term. Experience with what, exactly? Asking "Does he have experience with BDSM?" is like asking "Does he read books?" Until you know what books he's reading, it's essentially a meaningless question. Even if they show up at every munch in the local community, and log hundreds of hours at the local dungeon, and have been involved with the community for 50 years, it doesn't mean they have the sort of experience you are looking for and need. Likewise, they may be just what you're looking for in spite of never participating in the community. A sadist with decades of experience handling whips, and crops, and floggers isn't going to be useful to you if what you need is a micro-manager who loves to spend his days organizing other people's lives and figuring out what they should be doing with their time.

The variations on the theme that is BDSM are very nearly endless. What makes experience valuable isn't how much you have, it's the type of experience you have. And the value of that experience will invariably be in the eye of the beholder. And the answer to the initial question is, you've just got to talk it out with your perspective partner.

< Message edited by TheCabal -- 11/6/2015 4:47:18 PM >

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RE: Experience Level, Does he or doesn't he? - 11/7/2015 12:32:19 PM

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