RE: contracts, necessary or not?

RE: contracts, necessary or not? (Full Version)

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SusanofO -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 12:23:16 AM)
I don't know anything about having a contract. In my one bdsm relationship (which lasted a little over a year) we did not have one - but I think that was partly because we didn't really know for sure it would always be a bdsm-mostly relationship even though it turned out that way, it was all pretty casual (nevertheless, enjoyable). But I would not be opposed to having one, and am very interested in how others feel about this and how thyey construct one, if they do use them. I guess I have nothing of substance to add here, then (ha) but do think it's a very worthwhile thread, and am glad someone began it. - Susan

shivvy -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 12:43:53 AM)
hello hisforever, like it appears most here, i don't have a contract with my Master either. and like Susan, i don't think i would be opposed to having one. but i think it is very difficult to cast into stone, wot for me at least, is an evolving relationship. without going into the no limits and safewords arguement, i feel like i need to be pushed, and i wanna try different stuff and well, basically, i spose i don't want anything that is not moveable in my relationship, or in how i can demonstrate my luv and devotion to my Master. You see, i TRUST my Master not only with my life, but that of my daughters too. i want to spend the rest of my life with Him and i wanna grow old with Him. Like is being discussed in another thread at the minute, and to quote Raven from yesterday in it (i'm sure He won't mind), but D/s "does not just start and end at the bedroom door". i spose there are certain expectations, but other than He is Master and i am His, there's nuffin else really that i can think of that will definately stay the same. And like as Estring pointed out, they not legal, so the only reason i can think of having one, is to help you think about and discuss wot your submission (or Dominance) means to you, and to lay down stuff as you see it at that point (ie limits/rights/needs/wants, etc). i know people will disagree, but these are just my opinions. luv, shiv -x-

feastie -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 4:30:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hisforever My Dom and I are fairly new at this relationship and have talked about a contract, though he doesnt care either way if we do one or not. I am not sure either, now many of you have contracts, how formal or informal are they, and do you find them necessary? Thanks for any advice in advance! I find it depends on what sort of relationship you have decided to have. If it's a kink only relationship, meaning, there's no love or companionship, you just get together to enjoy play in whatever form that takes for you...then yeah, a contract is probably a good idea. If you're together in a love relationship, a couple or triad, whatever, then it is probably necessary to at least discuss limits and expectations openly, but I don't think a signed contract kept in the safe is necessary.

deltadawn -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 5:11:54 AM)
Never had one and do not feel the need for one. Open, clear, concise communication works for us. dawn

hisforever -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 6:39:39 AM)
Thank you all for your opinions. He and i have decided that just talking at length and being sure of what my hard limits are, and what He wishes and expects of me, as well as looking at contracts online, will be good. We have been together for 9 years, so this is anything but casual, and there is a very deep love between us, as well as two children and one on the way. However being in this type of relationship 24/7 is fairly new to us, and these boards have been very helpful for me, knowing I am not alone in this, and all the advice you have all provided for me. Thank you again!

Taylore -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 9:24:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hisforever My Dom and I are fairly new at this relationship and have talked about a contract, though he doesnt care either way if we do one or not. I am not sure either, now many of you have contracts, how formal or informal are they, and do you find them necessary? Thanks for any advice in advance! Master and I do have a contract, but it is a very informal one. More along the lines of ' this is what I promise, etc' . To tell the truth, when I first met Master, it was he who insisted that we do this, as a means of making me feel more secure and safe. He was and is my first, so it helped alot in the beginning. Now though, I never even think about the words that we both wrote down; they are pretty much just fond rememberances.

SexyRed -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 1:32:51 PM)
I don't believe in it. To me, actions speak louder than any spoken words or words written down on a piece of paper.

Mercnbeth -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 1:59:47 PM)
Very necessary. In the beginning; to clearly and pragmatically define expectations and responsibilities amid the passion of a new relationship. Ongoing; to assist in maintaining focus beyond day to day distractions and to remind you of your relationship goals and your individual responsibilities pointed to those goals. Ultimately; to look back on fondly when rules become routine, and ritual becomes life.

Littlepita -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 4:24:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Very necessary. In the beginning; to clearly and pragmatically define expectations and responsibilities amid the passion of a new relationship. Ongoing; to assist in maintaining focus beyond day to day distractions and to remind you of your relationship goals and your individual responsibilities pointed to those goals. Ultimately; to look back on fondly when rules become routine, and ritual becomes life. Brilliantly said!!

stanton -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 5:31:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer It is the offers, counter offers, and design of the contrat that tell you what kind of person is behind the document. In Leather Archer A topic that has been a concern. Thanks Archer. Would you please expand on your thoughts? In respect

Archer -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 6:03:19 PM)
You asked for some expanssion on the idea so here's a starton it. Just take a moment or two to think about what a document can tell you about a person who writes it. 1. How organized is the document, how detailed are the expectations, very detailed expectations might indicate a propensity for micro management, lack of details might indicate a propensity for laze faire control levels. 2. How is the document organized? Are the obligations in ballance for both parties, who's expectations come first in the document. 3. How difficult was it to establish your requirements did you have to fight hard for a few concessions, how willing were they to meet you part way? 4. Were the things you had expressed concerns about during negotiations specificly addressed with thought and care taken as to how those things would be handled. 5. Were the negotiations filled with well thought out ballance of needs, were they a one sided my way or the highway, were they handled in a way that allowed you to express your concerns. These are just a few things to take a look at, there are many things you might glean from a document, if you examine it for details that tell you where the person's priorities are. Take another look at how the agreement was reached and you have a pretty good idea of what kind of person you are dealing with. It's not the only way to do it but it is an organized way of doing it. In Leather Archer

LadyHugs -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/18/2006 6:49:10 PM)
Dear hisforever, Ladies and Gentlemen; Contracts often bring forth an immediate assumption and or reaction, as being a legally binding document and text placing legal points to which negotiations are agreed upon and clauses that addresses 'what if' and how to escape the bonds of a contract. But, the most basic of contracts is your word. Your word, is your bond. Something many people seem to forget, so a promise broken is a contract broken. Contracts can be a check list sheet of things that are negotiated limits and such contracts from verbal agreement to parchment, can always be ammended at that very moment verbally. Marriage is a contract as well. A relationship should not be held in such a rigid contract, as to stunt your growth, discovery, expanding your knowledge, information and or networking abilities, nor should it bind you into setting aside your freedoms to be an independent individual, unless you have exhausted all the research, and having the power of that knowledge, to enter a bond such as modern Master/slave contracts to which is something to acknowledge the relationship, the duties and responsibilities within it, the understanding of the commitments to that relationship and more. But, again--it doesn't need to be text parchment but, just an agreement between two individuals who consent to each other's understanding of the bond between you both. Although a text contract is the pen to paper expressions of you both, it can provide a time chamber for that time, that place and moment you two stepped forward as a couple and not two independent souls. It is good to consider what is right for your particular situation. If you wish a three month contract, by all means create one. Other contracts other than written, oral is also video with sound. It would be wise to research your State law and municiple laws as far as contracts go. Perhaps it may be a risk of liability that neither of you can afford, should oral/verbal contracts be made and or any other forms of contracts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Sirandlittle1 -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/19/2006 1:55:20 AM)
I have a contract. It is a spoken agreement, with sincerity as its core. Ive read about contracts. And i loved the romance of the idea. He however, does not gel with them, for whatever reason. So we dont have a contract. He wishes to marry me. That would be his contract. Its not something id consider doing for a 3rd time in my life. Twice, was sufficient to teach me the merit of written contract that i enter into, is worth jack shit really.

LeatherBentOne -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/19/2006 2:49:28 AM)
I prefer contracts that are framed and posted on the wall so that parties are reminded to read them from time to time, thus effective for reminding each of them what their expectations and responsibilities are toward each other. They are timely and reviewed every 90 days to insure the conract meets the needs of an ever-changing relationsip, a guideline for what is working and what is not. Both parties can track their individual growth along with the growth of their relationship by comparing each contractual update to the previous draft/s. Granted these contracts are invalid in a court of law, however I think they have a substantial influence on the emotional committment required for any long-term relationship, be it a BDSM one or vanilla. Besides that, I think contracts promote consistency which is especially important to a submissive so that s/he doesn't become confused with what is acceptable and what isn't, and clarifies any misinterpretations that inconsistency tends to foster. LeatherBentOne

kyraofMists -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/19/2006 4:59:02 AM)
Our house does not find them necessary at all and neither alandra nor I have a contract with our Lord. I just don't think that two (or more) healthy adults in a relationship need a contract to define it or the expectations. I don't think words on paper are going to make a person live up to the expectations that are set if they are not already internally motivated to meet those expectations without the piece of paper. Some people want contracts to be part of their relationship, and that works for them but I do not believe that they are a need. Knight's kyra

Roisseynpromise -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/19/2006 5:34:46 AM)
I had used one in the early days assuming that such an agreement gave My domliness more formality. and when that relationship ended , I found them of questionable relevence. I've never used one since. while it may help some to conceptualize their agreement by putting it in writing, having no legal grounds they are more fluff. just as surely as a Dom/Master can at any time release His sub/slave...the sub/slave always can and should "fire "her Master if He no longer meets her needs with some reasonable degree of mutuality. this is still where that little word "consensual" comes into play!

rose442 -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/19/2006 6:18:32 AM)
I have not read and replies to this post, and I want to comment before I do. For some people I thing a contract is a good thing, especially for a new one of the lifestyle. As long as it is written and used. Not just lying around and ignored (by either the slave or the Dom). Both have to abide by it. A new one of the lifestyle can benefit from it because it will be the boundary and guideline of the relationship. rose442

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (7/19/2006 8:23:32 AM)
I'm gonna answer this with my unedited opinion, and then go back and read what others have said. On a very practical level, any sort of "contract" between those in a relationship is worth only as much as they invest in it emotionally. Such contracts have no legal standing in most places, and can't even reliably be used to show intent/consent in the case of judicial action against one of them. Inevitably in any written agreement, you're going to leave something out as considering it not necessary to be stated - and that's going to create loopholes. Or, simply being human, you're going to forget various things because they don't happen to cross your mind while you're doing the writing. That in and of itself creates another sort of loophole - one that it's Almost impossible to avoid. You also have to consider another factor. If someone is honorable enough to follow a written contract, they likely don't NEED one, because they'll follow a verbal agreement just as well. If they aren't going to abide by their word, it's not going to matter two hoots and a holler whether it's verbal or writen - they're still going to ignore it. On a much more personal level, I consider BDSM contracts the same way I consider pre-nup agreements in a marriage. As an excuse, or "out," from personal responcibility if something goes wrong and the person decides to bail rather than working on it. That piece of paper does little in the long run other than give them something to point at and say "You didn't play by the rules, so I'm picking up my marbles and leaving" without feeling any sort of guilt.

SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: contracts, necessary or not? (6/13/2007 3:00:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Very necessary. In the beginning; to clearly and pragmatically define expectations and responsibilities amid the passion of a new relationship. Ongoing; to assist in maintaining focus beyond day to day distractions and to remind you of your relationship goals and your individual responsibilities pointed to those goals. Ultimately; to look back on fondly when rules become routine, and ritual becomes life. ....yes very well said.

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