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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/13/2016 11:46:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Actually, I was thinking real dominant men, who are actually attracted and want to try something a bit more sincerely. Guys I know in real life, versus online.

I've just discovered that even many Doms would try bottoming/submitting with the right woman/en.

Yeah well, that's the million-dollar question, how each of us defines real dominance.
Conversely, are they seeking a "real dominant" woman, or do they just want a woman to Top them?

I think it's more someone they can trust to handle the situation. But I could be flattering myself. *smiles*

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/13/2016 12:00:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
even many Doms would try bottoming/submitting with the right woman/en.

For the right woman, wouldn't men do almost anything?

No, no matter what I am not eating shit. Sorry

I've sometimes wondered: is there any femdom, anywhere, who's into that? I've certainly never seen one here. (Well, none who's admitted to it, anyway.)

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/13/2016 12:50:55 PM

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When money is involved, strange things can happen

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/13/2016 1:18:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange

When money is involved, strange things can happen

Indeedies. But I do suspect that there are *lot* of things that certain femdoms would like to do, but won't talk about. Things that are immoral, or not very ladylike, shall we say. These femdoms, they're all hyper-conscious of how they appear to other women, you know. Still, things in that immoral/unladylike category, I further suspect, are mainly violent things rather than icky things.

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/13/2016 1:24:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
even many Doms would try bottoming/submitting with the right woman/en.

For the right woman, wouldn't men do almost anything?

No, no matter what I am not eating shit. Sorry

I've sometimes wondered: is there any femdom, anywhere, who's into that? I've certainly never seen one here. (Well, none who's admitted to it, anyway.)

According to porn (and we know how accurate that is) there are many FemDoms into that.

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/13/2016 4:16:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange

When money is involved, strange things can happen

Indeedies. But I do suspect that there are *lot* of things that certain femdoms would like to do, but won't talk about. Things that are immoral, or not very ladylike, shall we say. These femdoms, they're all hyper-conscious of how they appear to other women, you know. Still, things in that immoral/unladylike category, I further suspect, are mainly violent things rather than icky things.

I'm not violent. I prefer the icky. Not scat, though... Not my thing. *grins*

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 8:48:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange

When money is involved, strange things can happen

Indeedies. But I do suspect that there are *lot* of things that certain femdoms would like to do, but won't talk about. Things that are immoral, or not very ladylike, shall we say. These femdoms, they're all hyper-conscious of how they appear to other women, you know. Still, things in that immoral/unladylike category, I further suspect, are mainly violent things rather than icky things.

I'm not violent. I prefer the icky. Not scnoat, though... Not my thing. *grins*

Doing icky things can be really hot.

Having no choice about doing things you positively dislike can be full of such a sweet, sexy and conflicting mixture of fear, anxiety and turn-on. On that basis, I get the theoretical attraction of scat.

Rather than being a hard limit as such, I just however always see scat as something I can't do. I am absolutely convinced that no training of my gag reflex could overcome my instincts to allow me to eat poo, much less getting all smeary with the stuff.

Not my thing on the grounds of not being within my capabilities.

(in reply to NookieNotes)

RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 12:06:51 PM

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So, as a secondary question: In my observations, I've seen many men that approach submission from the direction that they're "worthless" or that it's a natural order. Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

Why do you think that is?

(I have my own opinion, but I want to see what others think)

_____________________________

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 2:28:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

I only accept men and/or women who feel this way.

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 2:55:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
So, as a secondary question: In my observations, I've seen many men that approach submission from the direction that they're "worthless" or that it's a natural order. Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

Why do you think that is?

(I have my own opinion, but I want to see what others think)

Imbalance in numbers. Especially on sites like this, the ratio of submissive males compared to Dominant women is such a bad ratio that darn near anybody breathing will do.

Really bad porn. Like it or not, the "worthless worm" genre sells and always has. Unfortunately, this is how many males get their early kink education, so they have the preconceived notion that is what works in female led interactions.

A lot of men/people do not understand the difference between submission and bottoming.

The worthless worm theory is easily confused with the enjoyment of certain fetishes. As an example, what is the physical position that is envisioned when engaging in foot worship? It's on the ground, which can be seen as groveling or "less than".

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 3:22:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Unfortunately, this is how many males get their early kink education, so they have the preconceived notion that is what works in female led interactions.

A lot of men/people do not understand the difference between submission and bottoming.

That is part of my opinion, too. But, I also wonder if part of it is an inability to interact, so they've caricaturized the relationship.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 3:55:14 PM

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

So, as a secondary question: In my observations, I've seen many men that approach submission from the direction that they're "worthless" or that it's a natural order. Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

On the face of it, I've found it to be entirely the opposite. Femsubs will call on hundreds of years of social history to confirm that it's 'natural' for females to be submissive to males. More than that, they'll cite the examples of other primates, where the males are bigger, stronger and more aggressive than the females, to show how 'natural' it is for males to dominate females.

In fact, from these forums, and over quite a few years, now, I've come to the realisation that for many femsubs this notion of males as dominant, females as submissive, is so 'obvious' that it barely needs to be stated. In all the time that I've been here on CM I think that more femsubs have initiated contact with me than femdoms. I've developed the *very* strong feeling that a few of them, at least, believe that they can bring out the 'natural dominance' in me, if only they were to do the 'right things'.

It's been a really odd experience being here at CM, seriously. I've thought, so often, 'I like you a lot. But, look, I'm a submale. Don't think you can change that. You can't.'

_____________________________

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 4:13:05 PM

Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

So, as a secondary question: In my observations, I've seen many men that approach submission from the direction that they're "worthless" or that it's a natural order. Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

Why do you think that is?

(I have my own opinion, but I want to see what others think)

Really bad porn. Like it or not, the "worthless worm" genre sells and always has. Unfortunately, this is how many males get their early kink education, so they have the preconceived notion that is what works in female led interactions.

A lot of men/people do not understand the difference between submission and bottoming.

The worthless worm theory is easily confused with the enjoyment of certain fetishes. As an example, what is the physical position that is envisioned when engaging in foot worship? It's on the ground, which can be seen as groveling or "less than".

... and worthless worms get stepped on, i.e. trampled.

Not only do a lot of men/people not understand the difference between submission (D/s) and bottoming (BDSM receiving), they do not distinguish between being a fetishist either.
In other words, having a fetish does not make you submissive. Or Dominant. It just makes you a fetishist in search of a fetish delivery system.

They also confuse BDSM with outright abuse.
The really bad porn, and practically all of FemDom porn is really bad IMO

, never shows the acts portrayed as being consensually entered into, which then becomes the crux of many of their sexual fantasies, the fantasy of powerlessness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

That is part of my opinion, too. But, I also wonder if part of it is an inability to interact, so they've caricaturized the relationship.

Social ineptness and low self-esteem issues may very well be the reason why some men identify as being submissive, of having nothing of acceptable intrinsic value to offer that a "normal" vanilla woman would want.

-- Lisa & Cub

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 4:59:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears

Social ineptness and low self-esteem issues may very well be the reason why some men identify as being submissive, of having nothing of acceptable intrinsic value to offer that a "normal" vanilla woman would want.

-- Lisa & Cub

To be completely fair, I think there are a large number of females that identify on the "s' because of insecurity.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to HoneyBears)

RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 5:04:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

On the face of it, I've found it to be entirely the opposite. Femsubs will call on hundreds of years of social history to confirm that it's 'natural' for females to be submissive to males. More than that, they'll cite the examples of other primates, where the males are bigger, stronger and more aggressive than the females, to show how 'natural' it is for males to dominate females.

In fact, from these forums, and over quite a few years, now, I've come to the realisation that for many femsubs this notion of males as dominant, females as submissive, is so 'obvious' that it barely needs to be stated. In all the time that I've been here on CM I think that more femsubs have initiated contact with me than femdoms. I've developed the *very* strong feeling that a few of them, at least, believe that they can bring out the 'natural dominance' in me, if only they were to do the 'right things'.

That's possible. My thoughts on this are primarily based on real world experiences and may be biased by my own group of friend/ I don't very often look at female submissive profiles.

quote:

It's been a really odd experience being here at CM, seriously. I've thought, so often, 'I like you a lot. But, look, I'm a submale. Don't think you can change that. You can't.'

I agree with this too. I think your personality is what it is, regardless of gender.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 5:06:08 PM

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Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

So, as a secondary question: In my observations, I've seen many men that approach submission from the direction that they're "worthless" or that it's a natural order. Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

On the face of it, I've found it to be entirely the opposite. Femsubs will call on hundreds of years of social history to confirm that it's 'natural' for females to be submissive to males. More than that, they'll cite the examples of other primates, where the males are bigger, stronger and more aggressive than the females, to show how 'natural' it is for males to dominate females.

In fact, from these forums, and over quite a few years, now, I've come to the realisation that for many femsubs this notion of males as dominant, females as submissive, is so 'obvious' that it barely needs to be stated. In all the time that I've been here on CM I think that more femsubs have initiated contact with me than femdoms. I've developed the *very* strong feeling that a few of them, at least, believe that they can bring out the 'natural dominance' in me, if only they were to do the 'right things'.

It's been a really odd experience being here at CM, seriously. I've thought, so often, 'I like you a lot. But, look, I'm a submale. Don't think you can change that. You can't.'

You met Kia and the boy dogs, guess who is still top dog? She's not stronger but she outwits them all and they WANT to be on her good side... Girls got something boys want...

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Those who do and those who don't!

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 5:08:45 PM

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

So, as a secondary question: In my observations, I've seen many men that approach submission from the direction that they're "worthless" or that it's a natural order. Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

Why do you think that is?

(I have my own opinion, but I want to see what others think)

Really bad porn. Like it or not, the "worthless worm" genre sells and always has. Unfortunately, this is how many males get their early kink education, so they have the preconceived notion that is what works in female led interactions.

A lot of men/people do not understand the difference between submission and bottoming.

The worthless worm theory is easily confused with the enjoyment of certain fetishes. As an example, what is the physical position that is envisioned when engaging in foot worship? It's on the ground, which can be seen as groveling or "less than".

... and worthless worms get stepped on, i.e. trampled.

Not only do a lot of men/people not understand the difference between submission (D/s) and bottoming (BDSM receiving), they do not distinguish between being a fetishist either.
In other words, having a fetish does not make you submissive. Or Dominant. It just makes you a fetishist in search of a fetish delivery system.

They also confuse BDSM with outright abuse.
The really bad porn, and practically all of FemDom porn is really bad IMO , never shows the acts portrayed as being consensually entered into, which then becomes the crux of many of their sexual fantasies, the fantasy of powerlessness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

That is part of my opinion, too. But, I also wonder if part of it is an inability to interact, so they've caricaturized the relationship.

Social ineptness and low self-esteem issues may very well be the reason why some men identify as being submissive, of having nothing of acceptable intrinsic value to offer that a "normal" vanilla woman would want.

-- Lisa & Cub

It's a lot simpler for me, and I suspect a lot of male subs, at the root of it. Me, as a kid, I noticed that females had a lot of power to do all sorts of things to me, my mind and my body, that I couldn't control. I began to associate 'turned on' with 'females having power over me'. That's all it really was. Sure, as I got older, I realised that I could, as a male, have similar power over women, if I wanted. But that was irrelevant by then. I knew what turned me on and that was that.

I think the 'male as a worm' thing gives a lot of sub-males a buzz and there's little more to it than that. It *is* weird, though, that certain malesubs can be so strident about it. They'd be astonished, no doubt, to be told 'Look, stop being so pushy about being a "worm" - this is supposed to be F/m relationship, which means you don't get to be so demanding'. Me, I'm quite demanding about how I want to see my female partner (as my boss, etc, etc) . However, I know that most women are quite feeble in all sorts of ways, so I'm gentle and encouraging about it rather than pushy, I like to think.

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RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 5:14:30 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2016
From: Worcester, UK
Status: offline

I don't get it myself.

I don't ever see myself as a worthless nothing - why should someone be interested, if you have nothing to offer?

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 5:19:06 PM

Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

To be completely fair, I think there are a large number of females that identify on the "s' because of insecurity.

True, but there has been significantly less contact with female submissives, so better that you pointed this out.

Often the dead giveaway is when newbie submissives instantly go by the "slave" label when they have never been owned before, or have wildly unrealistic fantasies about being held in 24/7 TPE captivity.

On the flipside, there are a good number of insecure "dominants" as well who present as caricatures of their own distorted version of what a twue Master or Mistress should embody.

Like with so many other areas of everyday life, peeps are faking it till they make it.

-- Lisa & Cub

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Male subs: Self deprecation is annoying - 1/15/2016 6:00:43 PM

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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I don't like worms. They're slimy, and when you cut them in half, both ends go wriggling off, and a lot of them are parasites. Other kinds of pet play would be way more fun. ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

So, as a secondary question: In my observations, I've seen many men that approach submission from the direction that they're "worthless" or that it's a natural order. Women tend to approach it from the direction that they will only submit to someone that makes them feel submissive.

Hmm, as a switchy sort, I've noticed that from guys on both sides of the kneel - a lot of men seem to think of a woman as being inherently submissive or dominant and just applying that to whoever they choose to. A lot of people of both genders also conflate topping/bottoming with D/s. Obedience and respectfulness aren't the same thing as submission either, for that matter. I've always emphasised that I can't know whether or not I can be someone's Domme or submissive unless I get to know them, play with them, interact with them, and discover our chemistry and the way we react to/feel about each other.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

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