NookieNotes
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I'm late to the game, because I've been off life-ing, but I've got a few things to say (surprise, surprise!). Here goes:
Since when does a person's dress make them less deserving of basic human decency?
Since when does a person's sexual life (whether chaste or promiscuous) make them less deserving of basic human decency?
This is what I'm not understanding. As far as I know, it does not.
At all.
And the funny thing is, women in this thread are getting into this conversation along with the men, debating "dressing like a slut" and so on.
Why?
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
I can't be a liar one day, and not suspected of being a liar another day.
I can't be a convicted felon one day and not be a convicted felon the next day.
I can't be a lecherous leering creepy jerk one day, and not be suspected of being the same on another occasion.
Would you leave your kids with a convicted felonious lecherous leering old man just because he "says" he's no longer that?
Once a slut, always a slut.
So? Does being a slut mean I should be treated with less respect?
I know lots of sluts, and I love them dearly. I own a slut, and I love him more than I've ever loved anyone ever. He is very deserving of respect.
Why does loving sex and having sex equate to deserving to be the butt of poor social skills, lack of good manners and just plain entitlement from men or women?
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
Take the example of the "Traditional Bavarian Slut".
She's dressed like a slut would dress.
Sure, it's traditional.
But it's still a slut.
Again, so?
And that's equating dress with identity, which is absolutely not a logical equation.
If you are "dressed like a business man," because you put on a suit for a funeral (appropriate attire), that does not make you a business man. You may be a construction worker, or a beach bum.
And even if you are a business man, does that entitle to you to more or less basic courtesy than the construction worker or beach bum?
Not in my world, it doesn't.
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
Tradition is no excuse for being a whore.
Halloween is no excuse for being a whore.
Mardi Gras is no excuse for being a whore.
Oktoberfest is no excuse for being a whore.
Getting drunk at frat parties is no excuse for being a whore.
Selling yourself or your website on Collarspace as a (Fin-anything) Domme is no excuse for being a whore.
The once-a-year office party is no excuse for being a whore.
No, you're changing the vernacular to your favorite slur.
Which is it? Slut or whore? I though men were sluts and women were whores?
[Citation: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4831369/mpage_2/key_men%252Csluts/tm.htm#, "In general, men are the sluts (they do it for the sex); women are the whores (they do it for personal gain)."]
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
The biggest mistakes women seem to make (men make mistakes too - but that's not my point here) is thinking that men don't REMEMBER the fact that she's only a "traditional whore" on one day of the year. Men happen to remember whores very well. We have really good memories for the visual whore. Really really really good memories.
Once a whore, always a whore.
So, having sex for personal gain (using your own logic, not agreeing) means that a "whore" should now be subjected to any kind of treatment any entitled man or woman feels is appropriate?
At what point is that line crossed?
Is it just dress?
Is it certain ways of speaking?
Is it actually taking money?
It is enjoying sex?
Is it all based on the number of partners (and does it matter if they are same or opposite sex)?
At what point does a man or woman give up every right to be treated with basic decency as a human being by those they encounter every day?
An are there different rules for those who have PROOF of any of those above-mentioned crossed-lines? Or not?
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
Just like once a convicted sex offender, always a convicted sex offender.
Ah. Right, Because dressing in a sexy barmaid outfit is totally the same as forcibly hurting another.
Oh wait.
Even sex offenders are not all the same are they?
I mean, after all, getting caught and prosecuted for peeing in public is TOTALLY a good reason to abolish all attempts at common decency towards that person.
Or the fact that they had sex with their girlfriend of two years, who happened to be a year younger, and not yet "legally of age."
Yeah. Why not get out the brands now?
Now that I think of it, wouldn't that be easier? Just brand people so we know who doesn't need to be treated with...
Oh.
Wait.
We did that.
And we decided as a people that that was no bueno.
<sarcasm>I'm sure glad we did away with the branding, and now use more subtle things like "perception of whorehood."</sarcasm>
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
Men are at fault for many things.
But, in this discussion, since leering was never well defined, I'm assuming there are three types:
1. Noticing
2. Looking
3. Leering
And, I'm assuming women here haven't adequately defined the difference between the three.
no·tice
ˈnōdəs/
verb
1. become aware of.
look
lo͝ok/
verb
1. direct one's gaze toward someone or something or in a specified direction.
leer
lir/
verb
look or gaze in an unpleasant, malicious, or lascivious way.
I have.
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
And, worse yet, the women here don't even REALIZE they're the CAUSE of most of the #1 and #2, and that they INVITE #1 and #2 (albeit we hear many excuses to the contrary that don't jive with facts).
Now, no woman invites #3, but, the fine line of distinction rears its ugly head up when you try to dilineate between #2 and #3.
Wait, so women are the CAUSE of notice and looks? Do men never cause this? Only women?
And only women invite notice and looks and well, right? Never men?
What if we use a similar progression:
1. Noticing
2. Looking
3. Embarrassing
em·bar·rass
ˌimˈberəs,ˌemˈberəs/
verb
cause (someone) to feel awkward, self-conscious, or ashamed.
Is this still women only?
Is this still OK, because penis? Because we invite 1 and 2, and you don't know the difference between 2 and 3?
What if we replace embarrass with shame? Does that change things? Mortify?
When is it OK?
I don't think it's ever OK.
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
Hence, it is my premise, that women make absolutely no logical sense, because what they decry, is exactly what they desire, the only difference being in "CONDITIONS" that they unilaterally impose, which they have absolutely no control over (hence, the predictable rant in the original post).
Actually, that's the point being made.
We have little control over those conditions, and we rely on others to know how to treat us in respectful ways.
Sure, I know how to teach others to treat me well, or simply ignore them. Most women also know how to de-escalate and turn aside.
The point that is being made is that the majority of the human race does this for each other, except in specific circumstances:
Because black
Because ugly
Because tits
Why would ANYONE think this is OK?
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
I can't deny that, since women can never be trusted to say what they really mean, that I have been left holding strings that I had to put together to figure out what they really wanted.
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
Being Aspergers and probably a few other things, I can never figure out women, because they, themselves, deceive themselves more than I could ever deceive them all by myself.
For men and women everywhere, I will correct you:
quote:
...since people can never be trusted to say what they really mean...
quote:
Being Aspergers and probably a few other things, I can never figure out people, because they, themselves, deceive themselves more than I could ever deceive them all by myself.
It's a human condition that MOST people fall victim to. A lack of personal awareness.
And that's part of life.
That has nothing to do with how humans should be treated.
quote:
ORIGINAL: crumpets
I mean, if I was a convicted felon, would you think I would try to convince myself that I'm not?
How would I do that?
Only women can accomplish such odious self delusion.
Oh.
You've never met the "God's gift to women" guy who is not? Or the "pants falling off my ass is hot" guy? Or the "I'm hot, I can't lose this roll" guy?
Fascinating that all the self-delusions in your life are women.
And fascinating that you think this means you should treat them with anything other than simple respect and kindness.
_____________________________
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