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RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 9:03:30 AM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
There is a difference between explaining and excusing. You are excusing.
Explain: Some men have been raised to believe that they have a right to a woman's body when she displays it in public.
Excusing: Women show off their bodies, and men can't help reacting.

This constant new idiotic captcha Collarspace/CollarChat implemented (instead of adding real security) is making it almost impossible to respond, so, I apologize in advance if I don't respond to each of your salient points.
I will likely spend more time on FL instead, which isn't as painful to use as CollarSpace/Chat has recently become.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Most of this doesn't actually bother me. I am bothered by VERY few creepers, and I don't mind being catcalled. It tells me exactly where such people stand on the social skills ladder. I find it amusing, and know that they are not a good match for me. Win-Win.

Let's be clear about one thing, since your next sentence is about "me".
I don't think I have *ever* catcalled a woman in my entire life.
I've *practiced" the classic catcall whistle, which we've seen in countless movies, as likely almost all boys have, just as I've practiced the whistles of many birds, but I've actually never used my roueet rouuuua whistle, ever!

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
I am speaking TO YOU.

OK. I'm listening.
I may not respond much, moving forward, because this ill-advised new captcha idiocy is killing me.
(Why the Collarspce/chat owners just don't protect YOUR privacy is beyond my comprehension.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
To your communication about this issue and your excuses on behalf of men everywhere. To show the flaws in your logic in HOW youa re going about it.
Nothing more.

Heh heh heh ... you must admit that I approach things from a different angle than you do.
Most of you women *assume* I'm catcalling, and that I'm leering, and perhaps even worse, that I'm pinching, groping, raping, whatever.

The fact that I (think I) *understand* why this stuff occurs, doesn't mean I'm doing it.
I mean, I (think I) understand why ISIS wants to form a caliphate, but that doesn't mean "I'm" forming a caliphate.

The fact that the US set up a lousy government in Iraq is partly why ISIS is easily taking over the Sunni portions of Iraq, so, both the US and the Shiite-driven government bear some responsibility for the fiasco that is northwestern Iraq today (as does Britain, by the way).

Your attempt to absolve women of any responsibility for how men think about them is similar to you absolving the US for why ISIS so easily took over Mosul, for example, against hugely disproportionate numbers of well equipped Iraq soldiers (1,500 against 30,000, where the 30,000 simply fled, um, er, as they stated - they "organized a tactical redeployment").

Do you see the parallel?

The words of the US/Iraq coalition were merely an excuse for how they really behaved (they fled, pure and simple).
It's not politically correct for me to say that they fled, of course - nor that the US put in place a government that couldn't stand because it was dominated by the minority party.

Until you accept and understand what is really going on, you'll NEVER be able to come to a solution.
It's just complaining, otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
In this case, you are looking at the BODY LANGUAGE of the human, while not changing the clothing AT ALL.
Because the clothing is not what matters.


Ah, but you hit the nail upon the head!

Women are cryptic to most men ... well ... they have ALWAYS been cryptic to me.

Just as I read every ingredient on every box of medicine I buy in the drug store, and just as I understand exactly why every single ingredient is there, and in what amount (taking into account obscure details such as the LD50 when comparing analgesics, for example), I have been trying to UNDERSTAND women.

But women don't come with an ingredient label.
They basically make no sense whatsoever.

The younger the women are, the less sense they make, so, we're all at an age where you actually start to SAY what you WANT and you (for the most part) start to DO what you want.

But, trust me, men are constantly barraged with idiotically obfuscated messages from women all the time such as the "no... please ... don't.... stop" classic which means "please take me - but keep trying because I want to appear to be unwilling when I'm really willing".

Short fuck-me skirts are one such obfuscated message from women.

Like it or not, what you wear sends a message to men, and, it's no longer up to you how that message is interpreted.
How that message is interpreted, as I said in the prior post, is the sum total of that man's experience with ALL the women who wore similar clothing.

He doesn't expect you to TELL him directly what you think (in fact, you're more likely to tell him the opposite of what you actually think, the younger you are).
Women think that's being coy.
Men just think they make no sense and men come to their own conclusions.

That men are almost assuredly wrong a LOT of the time in their assumptions about why women dress the way they do is merely a probability function of the system.
I didn't make the system. I am simply trying to understand it.


< Message edited by crumpets -- 12/14/2015 9:23:22 AM >

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 9:10:48 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
Women, as a whole, have *already* established what they appear to us to be (e.g., they're all after our resources, when you get down to the nitty gritty).
Women, as a specific person, is who she appears to be to us.


Let me repost that for you as I read it from your post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
Women, as a whole, have *already* established what they appear to us to be (e.g., they're all after our resources, when you get down to the nitty gritty).
Women, as a specific person, is who she appears to be to me/crumpets.


And, you are saying that when a woman dresses a certain way, YOU make judgement calls based on her sexuality.

Simple.

I do not. Many people I know do not.

Perhaps because I grew up in and around alternative lifestyles, where you could NOT assume that the outside appearance of ANYONE is who they are.

Perhaps it's because I live my life as part of the actual offline community, and realize that the quite guy in jeans and a tee over there owns the venue I'm at, while the girl slutting it up with three guys is an astute business woman, and the young lady dressed in nearly nothing over there flirting crazily with five young men at a time is not only not a slut, she is a virgin and a male, to boot.

And no, I don't treat anyone with MORE respect because of their clothing, except when I intersect with them in the course of doing their jobs (ie, police officer, priest). Not in social situations. They get the same high level of respect that you would get.

quote:

These are universal ways we *all* deal with people.
You might not like it.
You might think it's not PC.

But it is what is, and what always will be.


You're wrong. Which is the point I'm making. These are ways YOU deal with people and therefore claim others deal with people, when it is NOT universal at all.

That it is not universal, that many people do not treat others that way seems the part that is beyond you to comprehend, and therefore, you can only keep going back to your original argument like a broken record.

And, since you missed it the first time, and asked for it to be reposted, here is that discussion of your personal situation again:


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Here's an analogy maybe crumpets can understand.

You openly admit you have aspergers.

What if every time you went out in public, SEVERAL people called you a "retard."

What if every time you went out in public, even if they did not verbally insult you, they treated you in a manner that was rude and inappropriate, but they justified it, because they feel that they are entitled, because of the way you behave. What if friends whispered to friends and cackled and pointed and giggled. Your fault, you opened your mouth and behaved in a manner to draw attention to yourself. Hey, if you don't want to be made uncomfortable, just don't talk and don't do anything in front of anyone that might set them off -- it is THEIR RIGHT to ostracize you. You ARE, after all, an oddity. And you CHOOSE to open your mouth and share it with the world. You should just stay home alone where you can feel safe and not be insulted or mocked, or, in extreme cases, beat up (in examples of school yards)

And what if their reasoning for being inappropriate to you is that - well, it's human biology to ostracize the weaker members of the herd. It's natural and has been going on for centuries and in animal kingdoms it's totally normal.

People don't treat you like a freak because it's not appropriate. You are taught as a CHILD what is rude and not acceptable.

My husband told me it's futile to argue appropriateness with an aspie men's-right person with limited social skills and I am beginning to think he is right.

Akasha



_____________________________

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(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 362
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 9:40:21 AM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
And, you are saying that when a woman dresses a certain way, YOU make judgement calls based on her sexuality.
Simple.
I do not. Many people I know do not.


This may be my last post ever, because this constant new barrage of idiotic captcha (instead of implementing real security that protects YOU) is killing me.
Not only that, but EVERY time I reply, it fails, even though the captcha goes through!
So they never even TESTED the idiotic system.
Luckily, I know computers rather well, so I am forced to implement a multi-step approach to get this post to slip past that idiotic Collarspace/chat bug; but it's just too many steps to simply RESPOND to you that I'm going to have to give up on CollarChat, I think. I apologize.


I understand what you say, and I take the statement that you don't incorporate how men act and dress, as a whole, into your concept of what men are with a bit of salt.

Again, I didn't make the system.
I am simply an insignificant cog in the system.
I'm simply trying to understand the system.

For you to intimate that there is no inherent existing system, is just dead wrong.
If how people dressed had nothing to do with how others interpret them, why do you think there are so many books on how to dress for an interview?

(in reply to NookieNotes)
Profile   Post #: 363
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 9:47:11 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Is it me, or is the fact that he doesnt understand why people get upset with stuff, is almost buried by his irritation with a capture code?

_____________________________

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\(•_•)
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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 364
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 9:51:42 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		I don't see any Captcha code at my end.

_____________________________

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George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 365
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 10:23:41 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
And, you are saying that when a woman dresses a certain way, YOU make judgement calls based on her sexuality.
Simple.
I do not. Many people I know do not.


This may be my last post ever, because this constant new barrage of idiotic captcha (instead of implementing real security that protects YOU) is killing me.
Not only that, but EVERY time I reply, it fails, even though the captcha goes through!
So they never even TESTED the idiotic system.

Must be your end coz I don't see it here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
I understand what you say, and I take the statement that you don't incorporate how men act and dress, as a whole, into your concept of what men are with a bit of salt.

Again, I didn't make the system.
I am simply an insignificant cog in the system.
I'm simply trying to understand the system.

Don't you get it?? There is no "system" to understand or "get".

Whatever you see, male or female, you are applying your 'understanding' (or lack of) only to women.
YOU are making a decision on the females and making your own interpretation based on what you see.
That is where you are going wrong.... dreadfully wrong.
STOP thinking of them as 'women' and start thing of them as PEOPLE first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
For you to intimate that there is no inherent existing system, is just dead wrong.
And there is the root of your problem right there.

There really is NO 'system' to 'get' - it's all manufactured and imagined in your head.
Nobody but a very few inept males (and you, obviously) think this way.
The fact that you DO think like this is why we are all telling you it is wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
If how people dressed had nothing to do with how others interpret them, why do you think there are so many books on how to dress for an interview?

Because, numbnuts, in certain situations such as interviews, there are certain expectations held by the interviewer depending on the job and the location.
It makes no sense whatsoever to extrapolate that specific scenario into other areas of behaviour.

But in the real world, away from those special environments, the only interpretations made by anyone are the viewers of the people.
They make the determinations as to how they are going to interpret what is the proper and correct way to behave.
It is the viewer, not the subject, that does this.
And to reduce a specific gender to a subject matter for scrutiny is just inappropriate and wrong.

If you can't grasp the basic concept of societal etiquette and expected behaviours, you are a lost cause.
There is no 'system' to try and understand or get to grips with.
Women, no matter how they dress, are just people.
This is where you are fundamentally going wrong.
It's not women you need to understand but societal norms and expected behaviours.
And those societal cues that most people learn before starting school are relevant to both genders; not just women.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 366
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 10:37:08 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
If how people dressed had nothing to do with how others interpret them, why do you think there are so many books on how to dress for an interview?


I did not say that clothing has nothing to do with how people INTERPRET them.

I really thought that you were smarter than that. You are arguing against something I am not saying.

I'm saying that it's very simple: How you interpret someone need have nothing to do with how you treat them. Guessing someone is a slut or a business person or homeless is no excuse to treating them as less than. Period.

--

And as far as those captchas you are complaining about, I have no earthly idea what you mean.

_____________________________

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https://datingkinky.com

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(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 367
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 12:22:25 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
There is a difference between explaining and excusing. You are excusing.
Explain: Some men have been raised to believe that they have a right to a woman's body when she displays it in public.
Excusing: Women show off their bodies, and men can't help reacting.

This constant new idiotic captcha Collarspace/CollarChat implemented (instead of adding real security) is making it almost impossible to respond, so, I apologize in advance if I don't respond to each of your salient points.
I will likely spend more time on FL instead, which isn't as painful to use as CollarSpace/Chat has recently become.




yeah, I will be gone too.. I HATE, HATE, HATE CAPTCHA, especially the version with one or both words totally illegible.. I dont mind the image ones or Versions 2 where you just click that you arent a robot.. but this is STUPID.. even some of my replies dont get thru due to the f'n CAPTCHA!

eta- I have to use TOR to access collarchat due to blocking of this site, CAPTCHA may not show up if the site isnt blocked, but where i am i cant test it cuz collarchat is blocked...

< Message edited by tj444 -- 12/14/2015 12:26:39 PM >

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(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 368
RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 12:31:30 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
yeah, I will be gone too.. I HATE, HATE, HATE CAPTCHA, especially the version with one or both words totally illegible.. I dont mind the image ones or Versions 2 where you just click that you arent a robot.. but this is STUPID.. even some of my replies dont get thru due to the f'n CAPTCHA!


Ah, you're seeing EXACTLY what I'm seeing since you mentioned that the REPLIES on CollarChat don't even make it through, even when the Captcha is done correctly!

Are you, perchance, using Tor to protect your privacy?
I am, and that's almost certainly why "I" see the Captcha challenge.

It wouldn't be so bad if the Collarspace/Collarchat team had implemented it correctly, but they didn't even TEST it, since the bugs show up IMMEDIATELY!

Here is what I had to wade through, just to post this message!

1. First, I simply point my browser to the Collarspace URL but I immediately get hit with an indecipherable Captcha:


2. Then, I try to log in, and I get hit with another indecipherable Captcha!


3. Then, I click on the "Message Board" button, and I get hit with yet another indecipherable Captcha:


4. Then, I try to REPLY to a collarchat post, and I get hit with yet ANOTHER indecipherable Captcha!


Even then, the reply fails!
  • There is no warning
  • There is no error
  • But, time and time again, the reply fails.

    The only way I know of to make the reply stick is to do a trick, which I won't mention, because they might shut it down, which involves a few steps, and then, and only then, does the reply stick!

    Jeeesus.
  • They don't care one whit about YOUR privacy (as witnessed by the fact they don't implement SSL encryption https).
  • Yet, they newly made just logging in and posting absolutely miserable for those few who know ANYTHING about privacy!

    < Message edited by crumpets -- 12/14/2015 12:44:09 PM >

    (in reply to tj444)
    • Profile   Post #: 369
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 12:50:34 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline     		It's your TOR browser doing it - not the CS site itself.

    I just tried with IE8, FF42.0 and Chrome in WinXP.
    Tried again with IE11, FF39.2 and Chrome on Win7 Ultimate.
    They all connect and run perfectly fine.

    I fired up TOR on XP and it immediately went to Captcha to restore a previous window.
    I've just done the update for it to the latest version (5.04?) and immediately got the following message -
    XML Parsing Error: undefined entity
    Location: chrome://browser/content/browser.xul
    Line Number 1401, Column 11:
    even though it said the update was successful.
    I clicked Ok and now it always comes up with the error and doesn't continue.
    ETA: going to try the experimental version 5.5a4 and see what that does.

    But your problem is not the site - it's your TOR browser.


    < Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 12/14/2015 12:57:26 PM >

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 370
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 1:01:41 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    It's your TOR browser doing it - not the CS site itself.

    It's not the browser, since the browser is Firefox.
    They're hindering Tor access.
    Why are they hindering tor access?

    I don't know - someone should ask them.
    All I know is that I wouldn't be caught dead logging into this web site WITHOUT using encryption.
    That would be plain stupid.

    Do you know *why* I'm using tor?
    HINT: I know something about privacy (specifically, I have neighbors who know something about freely available packet sniffers such as kismet, wireshark, netstumbler, netcrumbler, ethereal, etc.)

    Do you want me to tell you all my neighbors' login and passwords to unencrypted web sites such as this one?
    You know how I know this?
    HINT: Because I know how to use packet sniffers such as those listed above!

    The point is that the CS/CC IT staff:
  • (a) should spend their time instead on implementing basic SSL encryption, and
  • (b), they implemented the Captcha challenge all wrong.

    Clearly they never once even TESTED their new Captcha implementation, because, as someone else noted, THIS REPLY will fail.

    The only reason you will see this reply is that I implemented a multi-step trick to make the reply stick (which, is easy, but not everyone is gonna be able to figure it out on their own).l
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    I just tried with IE8, FF42.0 and Chrome in WinXP.
    Tried again with IE11, FF39.2 and Chrome on Win7 Ultimate.
    They all connect and run perfectly fine.

    It's not the BROWSER per se (the Tor Browser Bundle is simply using Firefox); it's the IP address.

    Specifically, it's easy to determine a Tor exit node (which is the IP address that collarspace/collarchat sees).
    All the Tor exit nodes are registered.

    So, the IT guys simply implement a captcha challenge to hinder Tor exit nodes that connect.
    The problem is they NEVER TESTED (not even once!) their implementation.

    How do I know that?
    Because it breaks instantly. And repeatedly.
    And all I'm doing is logging in via Tor, so, I'm not doing anything special.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    I fired up TOR on XP and it immediately went to Captcha to restore a previous window.
    I've just done the update for it to the latest version (5.04?) and immediately got the following message -
    XML Parsing Error: undefined entity
    Location: chrome://browser/content/browser.xul
    Line Number 1401, Column 11:
    even though it said the update was successful.
    I clicked Ok and now it always comes up with the error and doesn't continue.

    I'm specifically using the Tor Browser Bundle, version 5.0.4, but I doubt that matters for what "I'm" seeing, although it may matter for you because you're seeing an actual error message.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    But your problem is not the site - it's your TOR browser.

    The problem is that they recently implemented a Captcha challenge for Tor Exit Nodes (or whatever IP addresses they feel are problematic).
    Presumably they've been spammed by these exit nodes (probably not though - as what would a spam do to Collarchat that a human sock can't still do?)

    IMHO:
  • 1. They should spend their time coding in the s in https instead of wasting their time on bad implementations of Captcha challenges (and, even then, it fails to send messages and to post replies!).
  • 2. They couldn't possibly have TESTED this new implementation (because it forces scores of challenges just to do the most basic things such as reading & responding to your collarspace mail and reading and responding to the collarchat posts).

    The only options realistically available are:
  • A. Abandon any privacy whatsoever, and use Collarspace/Collarchat with a normal browser setup (which means your neighbors already have your password & Collarspace mails), or,
  • B. Abandon CollarSpace/CollarChat for a similar site that implements basic SSL encryption (all the rest of the sites do that already!)

    < Message edited by crumpets -- 12/14/2015 1:26:08 PM >

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    • Profile   Post #: 371
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 1:22:03 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline     		As usual, you are missing the label completely.

    If all other browsers perform as expected but one particular browser fucks up - it's the way the browser is working that's wrong, not the site.

    And again, like everyone else in the fucking universe, I don't give a flying fuck WHAT they've done in the background to cause the problem - it is still THEIR problem, not the site.

    BTW: v5.5a4 (based on FF38.0.4) behaves the same way with regard to the Captcha.

    I tried a few sites that I visit frequently: Captcha every time no matter where I go, not just CS.
    Some sites must work, just not the ones that I tried (all forums, different software/versions but all forums).
    It did work for Yahoo web page tho, but I don't usually go there.


    You said: You have no idea what you're talking about.
    It's not the BROWSER silly; it's the IP address.

    So.... I connect via a VPN to get a different IP addy.
    Instead of UK, it thinks I am somewhere in Asia.
    Everything works fine except TOR... same Captcha problem.

    So I'll repeat what I just said.....
    Like everyone else in the fucking universe, I don't give a flying fuck WHAT they've done in the background to cause the problem - it is still THEIR problem, not the site.

    This is one of the primary reasons I DON'T use TOR very much - it frequently fucks up for me in all sorts of places.
    If I want a bit of extra security, I'll stick to using VPN's; TOR can go take a dump until they fix the problems everywhere.

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 372
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 1:42:53 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    but one particular browser fucks up - it's the way the browser is working that's wrong, not the site.


    The good news is that you're thinking.

    However, it's not the browser.
    It's the Tor Exit Node.

    Tor Exit Nodes are all registered.
    They're easy to figure out.

    Every single Tor Exit Node on the Internet is known to the world (we're not talking about the darknet).
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    And again, like everyone else in the fucking universe, I don't give a flying fuck WHAT they've done in the background to cause the problem - it is still THEIR problem, not the site.

    I smile at what you just said.

  • [1] I happen to know how packet sniffers work (do you?)
  • [2] Therefore, I happen to know how unencrypted web sites work (do you?).
  • [3] In fact, I can tell you my neighbors' login and passwords to similar unencrypted web sites such as Collarspace/Collarchat.
  • [4] I can't help but know this information because packet sniffers sniff packets and you end up with everything they typed in cleartext.
  • [5] It's so easy, it's scary.
  • [6] I only hope, for your sake, that either you use TOR or VPN, or that none of your neighbors know how to use these freeware packet sniffers.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    BTW: v5.5a4 (based on FF38.0.4) behaves the same way with regard to the Captcha.

    Again, this shows that you are thinking.
    That's good.

    Did you post that reply using a Tor exit node that required Captcha?
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    I tried a few sites that I visit frequently: Captcha every time no matter where I go, not just CS.

    Again, this comment shows that you are thinking.
    That's good.

    I use the Tor Browser Bundle all day, every day.
    Some sites ask for an initial Captcha, most don't.

    Absolutely NONE that I use ask you for Captcha over and over and over and over again, and then fail to send the mail or post the response.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    Some sites must work, just not the ones that I tried (all forums, different software/versions but all forums).
    It did work for Yahoo web page tho, but I don't usually go there.

    Try Craigslist. It won't work at all with the Tor Exit Nodes.
    Try Gmail. It will only work if you edit your torrc file to severely limit the Tor Exit Nodes to a consistent set in the USA (or wherever you created the account).

    Both of those work fine with VPN, but, for Gmail, you still need to limit your variability in IP address geolocation; otherwise Gmail thinks that your account has been hijacked (and I never give Gmail a phone number or an alternative email address, so, there is no way to recover if you make this geolocation mistake too often).

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    So.... I connect via a VPN to get a different IP addy.

    The fact you tried VPN is showing that you actually UNDERSTAND something of what I'm saying.
    Good for you.
    (I would think a lot of people here don't understand how much their basic privacy is at stake here!)

    Besides encryption (which is a good thing), what else do you think you accomplished by coming in from VPN?
    What you accomplished is you changed YOUR incoming IP address.

    For Gmail, that actually makes a difference (they remember this stuff).
    But, for Collarspace/Collarchat, they don't remember this stuff.

    So, for them, changing your IP address has no effect.
    What has an effect, but only recently, is coming in from a TOR EXIT NODE.
    Remember, these exit nodes are ALL KNOWN.
    They're registered.

    So, it's EASY to implement checks for Tor Exit Nodes.
    The problem isn't that the CS/CC IT staff implemented a check for the Tor Exit Nodes.

    The problem is that the code was never once tested.
    It's broken like you can't believe.

    < Message edited by crumpets -- 12/14/2015 1:56:44 PM >

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    • Profile   Post #: 373
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 1:56:14 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    If I want a bit of extra security, I'll stick to using VPN's; TOR can go take a dump until they fix the problems everywhere.


    This comment again shows that you are thinking (although your solution is wrong because you don't yet realize that the Collarspace/Collarchat IT staff simply implemented Captcha for the known Tor Exit Nodes).

    EDIT: The IT staff may be innocent volunteers, like the moderator staff, in which case, it's not really their fault.
    The fault lies in the fact that we NEED to use encryption ourselves, since the site management hasn't implemented encryption on their own!

    But, I give you credit for thinking about the problem.
    That's good.

    Both Tor and VPN attempt to solve the problem of unencrypted web sites in different ways.

    In fact, anyone who doesn't use Tor or VPN to log into Collarspace is basically telling all their neighbors what their login/password is to every web site that does not implement SSL encryption (which is the "s" in https).

    I can certainly log into Collarspace using VPN, and I can choose whatever country I want to log into Collarspace using VPN, and I'm sure it will work. Tor is BETTER than VPN from the standpoint of privacy (more hops, for example).

    But, the fact you are using VPN shows that you actually understand the huge threat to your privacy that unencrypted web sites cause.
    Kudos to you.

    If anyone here wants to know how to use VPN easily and freely on any OS platform, just send me an email (better to send it to my Gmail or to my FL account, because the Collarspace mail is almost impossible to use with this newly implemented software bug).

    I can explain to you in a couple of steps, how to use VPN so that, at least, your neighbors won't be reading your CollarSpace email.

    < Message edited by crumpets -- 12/14/2015 2:01:14 PM >

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    Profile   Post #: 374
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 2:03:48 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    If I want a bit of extra security, I'll stick to using VPN's; TOR can go take a dump until they fix the problems everywhere.


    This comment again shows that you are thinking.

    Anyone who doesn't use Tor or VPN to log into Collarspace is basically telling all their neighbors what their login/password is to every web site that does not implement SSL encryption (which is the "s" in https).

    I can certainly log into Collarspace using VPN, and I can choose whatever country I want to log into Collarspace using VPN, and I'm sure it will work. Tor is BETTER than VPN from the standpoint of privacy (more hops, for example).

    But, the fact you are using VPN shows that you actually understand the huge threat to your privacy that unencrypted web sites cause.
    Kudos to you.

    I can explain to you in a couple of steps, how to use VPN so that, at least, your neighbors won't be reading your CollarSpace email.

    I daresay it's very easy to do this on a WiFi/wireless connection.
    Not quite so easy when it's all hard-wired.

    I tell you what... here's a nice challenge for you seeing as you think it's sooo easy.
    I have recently been exchanging a lot of emails with someone on CS.
    Perhaps you can tell me and others on here who that was and what the subject of the conversation was.
    There's nothing personal in there for me to worry about.
    So go break a leg.... I'm daring you.


    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 375
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 2:09:00 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    This comment again shows that you are thinking (although your solution is wrong because you don't yet realize that the Collarspace/Collarchat IT staff simply implemented Captcha for the known Tor Exit Nodes).

    And again... TOR Exit Nodes.
    Only TOR. Not IE. Not FireFox. Not Chrome. Not Opera. Only for Tor.

    So it's for TOR to fix how they handle things, not the site.
    VPN's work fine; but Tor doesn't.
    So it's a problem in how Tor is doing something.
    So it's up to the Tor team to fix it, not the site.


    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 376
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 9:28:24 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    And again... TOR Exit Nodes.
    Only TOR. Not IE. Not FireFox. Not Chrome. Not Opera. Only for Tor.

    The Tor Browser Bundle (that I use) "is" Firefox.
    But, as I said, the browser isn't the issue - never was the issue - and nobody (but you) implied otherwise.

    The issue is that the site admins have recently chosen to enforce numerous superfluous Captcha challenges on anyone coming in from certain IP addresses, most likely the well known registered list of Tor Exit Nodes.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    So it's for TOR to fix how they handle things, not the site.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with Tor itself, nor with the Tor Browser Bundle, which is Firefox anyway.
    There is absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with Tor Exit Nodes.
    I'm surprised that, up until now, in this thread anyway, you made reasonable technical decisions; but this isn't one of them.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    VPN's work fine; but Tor doesn't.

    VPNs only work fine because the IP address you're coming in from isn't automatically listed with Collarspace as problematic.
    If they wanted to block certain IP addresses, it would be easy for them to do so, and then the VPNs would work the same as the Tor Exit Nodes do.
    It's a conscious decision by the Collarspace/Collarchat administrative staff which IP addresses they wish to hinder.
    It's actually difficult for them to locate all the VPN IP addresses; so I fully realize that's impractical for them.
    It's much easier for them to hinder Tor Exit Nodes, which is a dumb implementation on their part; but it's so easy that a high school student could implement it (which is apparently whom they hired).
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    So it's a problem in how Tor is doing something.
    So it's up to the Tor team to fix it, not the site.

    As I said, up until this post, you actually sounded like you knew what you were talking about.
    You fundamentally don't understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Tor.
    Tor lists their exit nodes (on the Internet - not on the darknet).
    That these exit nodes are listed isn't a bug.
    So, there is nothing to fix on the Tor side.

    It's collarStuff that uses that list of exit nodes to hinder login, access, posting, mailing, and anything having to do with the site.
    Why?
    I don't know why.

    I can see only one reason for hindering Tor Exit Nodes and that's to prevent Robots from using Tor.
    Of course, that doesn't prevent Robots from using VPN so, it's useless as an approach.

    It certainly wouldn't prevent humans from using either one - although - as we noted - it makes the life of a human so miserable that they'll likely just drop the site altogether as not worth the appreciable effort.

    For the rest of you who are NOT on Tor or VPN, go ahead. Give all your neighbors your passwords and collarspace mails.

    Just know that, if you don't use encryption, anyone physically close enough to you to sniff your packets, or anyone in the chain from your home to your ISP to yopur ISP's ISP to the Internet hosts that your packets travel through has all your password/login information already.

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    Profile   Post #: 377
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/14/2015 10:03:18 PM   
    Greta75


    Posts: 9968
    Joined: 2/6/2011
    Status: offline     		I'm using Firefox.

    Zero problems at all.

    Anyway, they are doing this to tackle the trolls problem, so if you are using Tor or any special way of accessing, expect difficulties maybe because of mask IPs or encryptions or whatever.

    How about you suggest a better solution to the mods on how to tackle trolls who keep making multiple accounts and how to block them out?

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 378
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/15/2015 12:51:09 AM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    I'm using Firefox.
    Zero problems at all.

    Thanks for that information.
    We previously ascertained, pretty clearly, that the incessant indecipherable Captcha challenges were apparently only for those who are using registered Tor Exit Nodes (which themselves are used because Collarspace/Collarchat implements absolutely no encryption security whatsoever).


    So, we're both using Firefox (I'm using it right now and I still had to suffer multiple Captcha challenges just to post this).

    However, when I tried it with a VPN, there were no Captcha challenges (again, using Firefox).

    So, it's pretty clear what's going on.
    It's merely a very bad, untested, and highly unprofessional implementation series of new bugs that effects those using Tor Exit Nodes.

    Interestingly, the Captcha seems to be associated with a (new?) implementation with Cloudflare CDNs.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    Anyway, they are doing this to tackle the trolls problem, so if you are using Tor or any special way of accessing, expect difficulties maybe because of mask IPs or encryptions or whatever.

    Nope.
    Sounds good.
    But your assumption fails basic logic tests.

    It's super simple for any of us to come in as any IP address we feel like (using VPN, for example); so, they could NEVER combat trolls that way (they'd be batting down IP addresses daily like you and I bat down flies with an electric bug zapper).

    Besides, Captcha challenges have absolutely nothing to do with trolls.
    They're all about robots.

    More specifically, they're trying to identify HUMANS.
    Says so right in the captcha challenge itself by the way (e.g., look at the posts in the OP and see the part that asks "Why do I have to do this anyway?").

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    How about you suggest a better solution to the mods on how to tackle trolls who keep making multiple accounts and how to block them out?

    First off, you'll notice in the above screenshot that Collarspace has (recently?) included a Cloudflare CDN as part of their distributed network solution.
    So, it could merely just be a really bad implementation of Cloudflare CDNs that is screwing up the web site (e.g., cdn.collarchat.com).

    Secondly, the whole point of Captcha challenges, as I said (and as the message clearly says), is to identify HUMANS.

    Thirdly, humans and robots can still easily come in through VPNs, so, the entire Captcha concept is flawed from the start anyway, and easily circumvented (although with less privacy, since VPNs inherently provide much less privacy than does Tor).

    Fourthly, the most effective way to combat trolls is you limit their account creation, and then to limit their actions, both of which are relatively easy to do, but each of which is fraught with additional implementation hurdles.

    Trolls are age-old issues, which transcend technology; but clearly Captcha has nothing whatsoever to do with trolls, since Captcha is merely a test of human'ness.

    (in reply to Greta75)
    Profile   Post #: 379
    RE: Don't be a creeper - 12/15/2015 2:24:05 AM   
    Lucylastic


    Posts: 40310
    Status: offline     		So the powers that be, do something to cut down the number of bots, socks, getting thru on tor.
    I think they should be applauded.
    But then i was very fed up with having to report sockafter sock after sock.alllt trying to disrupt posters on the board.
    Also stops idiots from kicking up 40 odd sock memberships in a weekend for one person
    Im not surprised.
    Im happy.

    _____________________________

    (•_•)
    <) )╯SUCH
    / \

    \(•_•)
    ( (> A NASTY
    / \

    (•_•)
    <) )> WOMAN
    / \

    Duchess Of Dissent
    Dont Hate Love

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 380
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