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RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/25/2016 3:29:57 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Why is this shit still being debated?


It's a USA-dominated forum.

Ok, I'll tell you.

Could the globe be getting warmer ? If so why and what does human activity have to do with it ?

Yes, the globe is getting warmer. It could be a natural cycle the various timing of which is still not enough of an absolute scientific given that mankind shouldn't act regardless of why but not overreact.

Is man's contribution of CO2 making a difference ? Yes, and is a gradual compounding effect in addition to the possible effects of above. Are there great worldwide effects that are coming up ? Yes, ask the people who will soon be leaving say...the Marshall Islands.

Should man decrease our use of fossil fuels and thus [its] contribution to the very likely possibility of adding to the CO2 greenhouse effect ? Yes, but given the economics and society also wanting to afford a living in the men time...doesn't inspire overwhelming change just yet.

Should there be a carbon tax ? Yes but reasonable...see above.

Should we created carbon credits ? NO !! That will just be more paper turned into money upon which the speculators will use to...speculate and will accomplish only trade-offs the values of which will offer possible profits only because of the spreads created by the distortions in a market inherent in speculation.

To what degree should we make ameliorative efforts such as taxes and subsidize alternatives ?

That's the debate.

Oh and if we screw it all up and continue to partially vaporize all of are carbon fuels and we turn Earth into Venus, will our children and grandchildren more likely...be spitting on our graves ? Yes !!

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/25/2016 3:33:44 PM >


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(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/25/2016 4:59:16 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Why is this shit still being debated?


It's a USA-dominated forum.

That, and they need distraction away from the cluster fuck in the gop presidential nominees.


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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/25/2016 5:53:18 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

It's a USA-dominated forum.

Sigh. True, sad but true.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/25/2016 6:36:15 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

It's a USA-dominated forum.

Sigh. True, sad but true.


No, whats sad is the number of canadians that like to trash Americans. Don't like an american product? Or Americans? Go away. I assure you- we won't miss you.

Go do something interesting with your life rather trashing americans, american customs, or american forums.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/25/2016 7:16:42 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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not gonna happen, suffer lil whinger

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/26/2016 7:49:25 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

It's a USA-dominated forum.

Sigh. True, sad but true.


No, whats sad is the number of canadians that like to trash Americans. Don't like an american product? Or Americans? Go away. I assure you- we won't miss you.

Go do something interesting with your life rather trashing americans, american customs, or american forums.


Lol, newsflash Fido, we're your closest neighbours and what you do politically and socially has impacts on us. we have as much of a right to an opinion as you do, and considering you're country is the supposed "land of the free" it's quite unpatriotic and unamerican of you to be trying to stifle opinions you don't like. pathetic.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/26/2016 7:50:14 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:


By which you are acknowledging you were wrong


You are absolutely choking on your cock there, nothing wrong in what I said.

quote:


And? The question of drywall/ mm of aluminum was to address your representation that tritium was a dangerous radioactive material. When in fact, it is not. It is commonly used and well understood.

more toiletlicking, I never said anything of the sort.

quote:


And still are. A couple of hundred is a possibility, if cited appropriately. Thousands is ridiculous conjecture. What the hell do you think is going to kill people? A one time explosion might kill plant workers but Tritium escapes to the atmosphere and is lighter than air - and rapidly decays.


Uh, who gives a fuck about the tritium? Thousands is reasonable at commercial levels of high energy loose neutrons banging around. You can try and not look stupid, but the more you lie about what you said, and the more you lie about what I said, the deeper in the nutsucker felching you go.

quote:

post 69.
Fusion has no radioactive issues as fission does. It shouldn't fall into your category of "nuke stuff'.

And you sort of went right for the felch gob right there.

I know you dont have any science background or understanding, not even grade school level.

ra·di·o·ac·tive
ˌrādēōˈaktiv/Submit
adjective
emitting or relating to the emission of ionizing radiation or particles.

The uh....rather simple definition of radioactive rather puts you licking toilets from the start.

All particles (with the exception it seems of dark matter, yet to be proven beyond doubt) are known to be electromagnetic, and therefore known to be on the light spectrum by definition, even if they are not in the humanly visible light spectrum.

I have talked about nothing besides neutrons, Jimmy Neutron, and it is clear that you havent any knowledge in any of the areas you have been masturbating your buncombe on yourself with. Nobody here besides other ignorant nutsuckers (and there are only perhaps two as ignorant as you) believe this horseshit you are spewing.


So, as a moron you have said a lot of things, and I am winning the game, pointing out you as the moron who said it, right? that was your intent, wasn't it?

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 2/26/2016 7:58:31 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/26/2016 7:50:15 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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From you? Hardly twat face.

I merely point out they hypocrisy of such as you - using, supposedly enjoying, a forum such as this - born out of an american's inspiration, made possible by a critical mass of american kinksters, and then decrying that there are so many americans. Since the poster was critical - go impress us with your accomplishments. Do something.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/26/2016 10:19:01 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Why is this shit still being debated?


It's a USA-dominated forum.

Ok, I'll tell you.

Could the globe be getting warmer ? If so why and what does human activity have to do with it ?

Yes, the globe is getting warmer. It could be a natural cycle the various timing of which is still not enough of an absolute scientific given that mankind shouldn't act regardless of why but not overreact.

Is man's contribution of CO2 making a difference ? Yes, and is a gradual compounding effect in addition to the possible effects of above. Are there great worldwide effects that are coming up ? Yes, ask the people who will soon be leaving say...the Marshall Islands.

Should man decrease our use of fossil fuels and thus [its] contribution to the very likely possibility of adding to the CO2 greenhouse effect ? Yes, but given the economics and society also wanting to afford a living in the men time...doesn't inspire overwhelming change just yet.

Should there be a carbon tax ? Yes but reasonable...see above.

Should we created carbon credits ? NO !! That will just be more paper turned into money upon which the speculators will use to...speculate and will accomplish only trade-offs the values of which will offer possible profits only because of the spreads created by the distortions in a market inherent in speculation.

To what degree should we make ameliorative efforts such as taxes and subsidize alternatives ?

That's the debate.

Oh and if we screw it all up and continue to partially vaporize all of are carbon fuels and we turn Earth into Venus, will our children and grandchildren more likely...be spitting on our graves ? Yes !!



This is actually a pretty reasonable post.

Is the globe getting warmer? 96% of the globe is not getting warmer statistically. The arctic is.

Should we take steps to ensure the environment is protected. Absolutely.

What steps should be taken to do that? The answer to that question is unknown. The evidence that the warming is CO2 derived is essentially fraudulent; there is no scientific paper I am aware of that says with a reasonable statistical certainty that CO2 is causing warming.

Edit: This is a complex topic - there is no question that CO2/methane, water vapor contribute to the temperature profile of our planet. However, due to the lag/lead debate, the logarythmic nature of temperature contribution - there is no reason to believe the AGW projections of global warming of 2 degrees per decade. Or even 1.2 degrees per decade.

The evidence is better for ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. Which I doubt much can be done about.

In the absence of evidentiary based science, it is probably better, as per the Yale report, to remediate climate change (ie., save the polar bears, create habitats for california sucker fish, create marshlands, fight the asian carp infestation - than it is to impede the global economy by reducing fossil fuels - UNTIL such time as science determines a workable cause/solution.

The worst course of action is not doing nothing - its throwing 1-2 trillion dollars a year down a rabbit hole to no effect. Far better to spend the money on basic research and remediation.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 2/26/2016 10:25:53 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/26/2016 11:31:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Uh, it may be outside your area of expertise, science, or any other thing you comment on, but consider an ice cube melting, now perhaps you are unaware, in fact I know you are of brownian motion, btus, entropy and the like, but thats whats happening there.

Now it may be that there is no direct causal relation to cO2 but then there are direct linkages to such as methane, nitrous oxide, and the flouronated gases, but when we look at venus, we can see that cO2 in any abundance is not a good thing to have in our atmosphere. So, we think, gee---if that is what is making Venus (a planet hot, and we are somewhat very much like venus) and the suns heat is being trapped in the atmosphere by the cO2, and gee, we have a sun and an atmosphere and cO2.........well, we should look into minimizing that......





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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/26/2016 2:08:21 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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I seriously thought that the OP was straight from FOX.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/26/2016 3:13:56 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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Surprise!

In other news today, Michael Mann acknowledges a pause in global warming in an published article.

The article's a good one - it shows in start raving color the difference between the koolaid drinker's projection of global warming and the actual (lack of) warming...
Of course the science will be denied...

http://reason.com/blog/2016/02/24/global-warming-hiatus-is-real


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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/27/2016 7:18:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
So the models for global warming (not equivalent to climate change) are not entirely accurate.

Surprise.


It doesn't mean the science is bad, and it doesn't mean that climate change deniers are right in any respect.

When ice melts in the glass the overall temperature of the liquid lowers until the external forces overcome that and raise the entire liquid (or lower it) temp.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/27/2016 7:31:02 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
Responding ....to fidos idiocy

I merely point out they hypocrisy of such as you - using, supposedly enjoying, a forum such as this - born out of an american's inspiration,
What is hypocritical about me, enjoying a forum made by an american? DO I demand you kiss the taint of english inventors? Fuck off.
made possible by a critical mass (exaggerate much?) of american kinksters I bet I have posted on more BDSM specific threads on this board than you have...EVER,
and then decrying that there are so many americans. And who is decrying too many americans, AND where?

Since the poster was critical - go impress us with your accomplishments. Do something.
Which Poster was critical? go impress us with your accomplishments? what the fuck does that to do with anything?






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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/27/2016 7:56:40 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Surprise!

In other news today, Michael Mann acknowledges a pause in global warming in an published article.

The article's a good one - it shows in start raving color the difference between the koolaid drinker's projection of global warming and the actual (lack of) warming...
Of course the science will be denied...

http://reason.com/blog/2016/02/24/global-warming-hiatus-is-real



You realize, of course, that for something to pause, it must necessarily exist.

Did you just admit the existence of Global Warming?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/27/2016 8:19:02 AM   
mnottertail


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http://www.meteo.psu.edu/holocene/public_html/Mann/research/research.php

The nutsucker slobber blog appears to reference this Michael Mann, and I am somewhat confused that such an article doesn't appear on his own page.

Is there some pause in the internet?

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/27/2016 8:36:17 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So the models for global warming (not equivalent to climate change) are not entirely accurate.

Surprise.


It doesn't mean the science is bad, and it doesn't mean that climate change deniers are right in any respect.

When ice melts in the glass the overall temperature of the liquid lowers until the external forces overcome that and raise the entire liquid (or lower it) temp.





No, the models for global warming - are not REMOTELY ACCURATE, and hence DISPROVE the hypothesis.

Warming is roughly 1/4 predicted, while carbon dioxide concentrations continue to climb.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/27/2016 8:42:06 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Surprise!

In other news today, Michael Mann acknowledges a pause in global warming in an published article.

The article's a good one - it shows in start raving color the difference between the koolaid drinker's projection of global warming and the actual (lack of) warming...
Of course the science will be denied...

http://reason.com/blog/2016/02/24/global-warming-hiatus-is-real



You realize, of course, that for something to pause, it must necessarily exist.

Did you just admit the existence of Global Warming?


I have never denied that temperatures change. What I have consistently denied is that AGW as advanced by the IPCC is a valid explanation of the observed temperature record.

To answer your more pointed question: I have consistently said global warming as a result of CO2 concentration is false.

The news here, is that for the first time in a published paper, Michael Mann (prophet of AGW) is saying it too. Which, I might add, is going to raise all kinds of hell with his two ongoing suits - where he said climate deniers libelled him.

Funny thing: truth is always a defense for a libel suit. Michael Mann has already lost one - two more to go.



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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: So.. what moron said... - 2/27/2016 8:54:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So the models for global warming (not equivalent to climate change) are not entirely accurate.

Surprise.


It doesn't mean the science is bad, and it doesn't mean that climate change deniers are right in any respect.

When ice melts in the glass the overall temperature of the liquid lowers until the external forces overcome that and raise the entire liquid (or lower it) temp.





No, the models for global warming - are not REMOTELY ACCURATE, and hence DISPROVE the hypothesis.

Warming is roughly 1/4 predicted, while carbon dioxide concentrations continue to climb.



The models for global warming of 50 years ago are not accurate, the models of 25 years ago are not accurate, but as the data continues in, they are more accurate, and its far from remote.

Carbon Dioxide predictions are accurate. warming may be roughly 1/4 predicted for 15 years out of how many? cite your data you lying nutsucker, there is more than 60 years of global temperature tracking.

To focus on this small point (and with really nutsuckerish non data and strawmen premises is not proving any point whatsoever, and certainly not credible or credibly cited) because I have read Mr. Manns monographs, and the nutsucker article you toiletlicked is not quite what is real. In fact it is way less than roughly 1/4 accurate, but 0/0 cannot be determined.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: So.. what moron said... - 3/8/2016 9:41:47 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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From IBD:


Whiile driving the mostly empty and flat 1,000 miles from Houston to Colorado Springs recently, I noticed something I hadn’t seen much just a few years ago — lots of wind farms dotting the landscape, but none anywhere near even small population centers.

Another funny thing, though: Invariably, many of the turbines weren’t moving, and one of the largest appeared to have about 100 turbines, yet I counted just three in action.

How can this be? Having paid for the land, the turbines and those long transmission lines, don’t providers want a maximum of the machines going? Nope. Because, you see, wind farms – and solar farms for the same reasons – don’t make their money by generating electricity. They do it by generating government subsidies.

Having just finished writing an article in the biomedical journal Inference, in which I surprised even myself by finding that wind and solar have no purpose other than lining the pockets of fat cats, this was no shocker. No purpose, really? Really.

Perhaps America’s greatest investor in these technologies is Berkshire Hathaway guru Warren Buffett, who has already sunk at least $15 billion into them with “another $15 billion ready to go.”

At a meeting a couple of years ago he admitted that “on wind energy, we get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That’s the only reason to build them. They don’t make sense without the tax credit.” (Studies consistently show solar farms make even less sense.)

If President Obama gets his way with his “Green Power Plan,” tailored by the rent-seeking lobbyists who quickly joined his administration and infiltrated the EPA and Department of Energy (DOE), we can expect those subsidies to soar.

Ah, but haven’t solar and wind generation prices plummeted to where they’re finally competitive? That infiltrated DOE says so. And truly prices have dropped, but not because of any scientific advances as we’ve been led to believe.

For solar generation, the decline essentially came from switching from panels sold at cost in the U.S. and Europe to buying heavily subsidized ones from China and Taiwan. Under the threat of trade sanctions, these countries have now stopped their “dumping,” and solar prices are heading back up.

As to wind, increased efficiencies were realized by building larger turbines. But metallic stress factors put a physical limit on those.

In fact, physics ultimately dooms both wind and solar. Sure, the “fuel” for both is “free.” But that’s also true of sailing ships. How many merchant and warships are sail-powered? Problem is it takes a lot of “canvas” to catch that “free energy” because both wind and solar energy are (1) variable and (2) intermittent.

In other words, a fossil fuel or nuclear plant can steadily pump out energy day or night, independent of climate or weather. And “capacity factor” for nuclear plants has steadily increased so now they’re operating at close to peak efficiency all the time.

But turbines turn only when the wind blows, and if it blows too hard they have to be governed or shut down to prevent damage. Solar panels are useless at night and in places useless all winter.

How much “canvass” is needed? The Westinghouse AP1000 WPR small modular reactor — the only type currently being installed in the U.S. — requires five acres of land. The company calculates that to generate the same amount of energy “average solar” would require 2,400 acres while “average wind” would need 60,000.

That’s 500 and 12,000 times the land mass respectively, which makes them cost-prohibitive for built-up areas – where customers are. Imagine the cost of 12,000 acres near New York City, which also happens to have relatively low amounts of wind and sun and therefore needs far more than that average

This leads to yet another problem with wind and solar that virtually nobody discusses, even opponents: The cost of transmission from where land is cheap and sun or wind is plentiful to where customers are.

Yet by the time you figure in land costs, transmission line costs, right-of-way expenses and the inevitable “bleeding” of power that increases with every mile of cable – this can double the expense of delivered energy. But when I said everyone ignores this, it includes the primary source for cost comparisons – Obama’s DOE.

Ah, but it gets even worse. Naturally, prime areas are getting snatched up first. This is what economists call “the low-hanging fruit.” As U.S. wind and solar providers move beyond the paltry 7% of electricity they now deliver, they’ll have to reach farther and farther to get fruit. We can expect delivered prices to increase.

That’s just fine for providers. Because as Buffett admitted, the money is in the subsidies. For that 7% of electricity, wind and solar grab a stunning 64% of federal subsidies, meaning over $10 billion or about $80 per U.S. federal taxpayer annually.

Beyond federal support, personal tax credits related to solar products are available in 20 states, 18 states have corporate tax credits or deduction programs, and 14 states offer taxpayer-funded grants to support solar electricity. Now toss in local subsidies.

Solar’s take per amount of energy supplied is much larger than wind’s. Why? Because solar is that much more inefficient!

If solar and wind were indeed catching up to other forms of electricity generation, they wouldn’t need current subsidies, much less ever-growing ones. Such are the incredible costs of producing energy with “free fuel.”

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 100
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