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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/6/2016 6:24:04 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		You are contradicting yourself because you say dominance cannot come without a degree of leadership and then say, if you don’t have any leadership skills then your dominance is best reserved for the bondage club. Dominants who only play with willing participants in bondage clubs are still, by all intent dominant so therefore, dominance can come without leadership.

I would say that dominance is in your face whereas leadership is far subtler.
The biggest majority of the human race are followers and the minority natural leaders (Evolution would look very different if we had one leader for every follower!) therefore, many dominants only play at being leaders, though dominance may come naturally to them.



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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/6/2016 10:31:19 AM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		And some people shine as leaders in small groups but fail in large. Introvert/extrovert comes into play here.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/6/2016 2:40:02 PM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

And some people shine as leaders in small groups but fail in large. Introvert/extrovert comes into play here.


Good point.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/6/2016 7:57:54 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And some people shine as leaders in small groups but fail in large. Introvert/extrovert comes into play here.

It does... but not in any obvious way. I worked at a major transnational and they did "personality tests" in some of the HR training. One of the things which was shared was when you looked at the history of CEO's and senior executives, their personalities were all across the map... including the introvert/extrovert trait.

Personally, I've come to conclude that there is no specific personality type that makes a great leader. It's more like some hugely complex witch's brew which somehow all comes together. That's why I say that there are exactly two traits required to be a leader:

- You have to be going somewhere. Obviously, if you're standing still, nobody can follow you.
- You have to be able to convince people to follow you.

If you have those two down, you're golden. Now... if you want to be a good leader there's other stuff that goes into the mix but even then, nothing hard and fast. For instance, you could either be a visionary or else you can find other visionaries and get them to follow you. You can have great interpersonal skills (charisma) or you can simply be bluntly honest enough to be trustworthy.


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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/6/2016 11:11:20 PM   
shiftyw


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Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I'm finding this complicated to answer.

I'm a leader at work. I'm a leader because I treat my employees like friends/family- not pawns. I'm a leader because I know how this industry works, my family has run the same business for over 75 years, you don't have that kind of longevity in the restaurant industry without knowing what to do naturally. I lead with everyone's best interest in mind. I know where people belong in the restaurant. I like to keep my employees happy, by keeping them in jobs they like. I'm a hard worker, and I'm in the trenches with these folks every day. I work in the sweltering kitchen. I wait tables when a waitstaff member is ill. I hostess, I count the drawer. I make nearly the same as everyone my age. I'd never dream of paying myself more than my employees. I'm a good listener. I can see things from several sides.

I'm not dominant because I would never call what I do a dictatorship. I wouldn't liken myself to a captain. I'm quiet. I'm reserved. I often take into consideration, and usually follow, the advice or opinions of others. I never really think my way or the highway. I never really feel like I make a decision on my own, I usually use a team, or my partner to come to the best decision.

When I hear dominant- I think dictatorship. Dictators are obviously leaders, of a certain talent, but does that make them "good"?

Was Hitler a good leader? I don't think it worked out great for those who followed him? I think he was dominant, charismatic, and talented at getting followers, but if you devastate your followers by straight trashing their economy...idk.

I think a dictatorship CAN work in a relationship- but the dictator has to be a GOOD leader- and how you define "good" is what matters here- and is based on the individuals involved. My man who I only submit to in the bedroom- makes good and sexy decisions in the bedroom. But we have separate bank accounts, and my name is the only one on the mortgage because- he isn't good at spending. However, I'd say he's a natural dominant, very alpha. I'd just question some of his leadership skills.

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/7/2016 10:41:25 AM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I've known CEOs who were extroverts and ones who were introverts. But mainly they aren't addressing groups of thousands. They meet with two or three EVPs at a time.

I was actually thinking more in the lines of motivational speakers, hired to inspire a thousand strangers and answer questions for two hours afterward. That requires some extroversion to actually be comfortable in such an environment and make the people asking questions comfortable as well.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/7/2016 11:04:30 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		I am..depending on your source material
1. A mad olde loon with a cat problem
2. INTJ
3. Most dominate and yet I value equals - quite the paradox

All that aside I think you will find lemons will depart the cliff, and many will follow.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/7/2016 12:15:38 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		And one sheep can lead the entire flock. Why do the flock follow that one sheep...because she's has one thing they don't have and that's courage - she isn't afraid to step outside her comfort zone.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/21/2016 4:00:01 PM   
SunDominant


Posts: 136
Joined: 7/12/2016
Status: offline 		I very much liked what JeffBC had to say, and will add a bit from my perspective.

I have been a military leader, and currently lead in my business, community, church and home. When I was much younger, I believed that leadership was all about authority that granted power over others. I was blessed to learn from some very wise and older men what I consider the nature of true leadership, service to others. Authority is only exercised by a leader when there is no other option left. This may sound like an anathema to some people, and a contradiction to others. However, it has worked (and continues to work) well for me. If someone's flavor of dominance is dictatorial, he or she will most likely not make a very effective leader, regardless of how good a dominant they are to their subs.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/21/2016 11:20:06 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


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Status: offline 		You just asked if we feel good dominants are good leaders? This is all rather subjective and varies.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 7/23/2016 3:01:35 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDominant
Authority is only exercised by a leader when there is no other option left. This may sound like an anathema to some people, and a contradiction to others. However, it has worked (and continues to work) well for me.

It works well for me also. Actually enforcing your will on someone else is what I do when I've already mishandled the situation AND there is substantial time pressure which precludes less costly means. In general I prefer my teams to operate smoothly and avoid such conflict. My experience is that people like to follow leaders who make reasonably solid plans and actively care about their followers. They call them "great leaders" and there's no need to exercise authority. People obey because it'd be stupid not to and/or because they owe the leader. For all the best followers, those are pretty much the only two reasons they obey because for them, "fuck you I quit" is always an option ready at hand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mariab
And one sheep can lead the entire flock. Why do the flock follow that one sheep...because she's has one thing they don't have and that's courage - she isn't afraid to step outside her comfort zone.

Heh, one of the things I say is that the most common attribute of leaders is that they have a specific type of courage.... they are willing to fail while standing in the spotlight. For those with enough insight to see it and enough empathy to care about it, another type of courage is the knowledge that other people are going to pay the price of those failures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
You just asked if we feel good dominants are good leaders? This is all rather subjective and varies.

Sure, but just like the sub/slave thing, that doesn't preclude interesting conversation. It just precludes any single right answer. Heck, lots of VSP have been writing books about leadership for quite some time.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Leadership and Dominance - 8/1/2016 11:53:37 PM   
noaxis


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/26/2016
Status: offline 		I'll take a stab at this. I'm going to use "he" for Master and "she" for slave. Sorry in advance.

If you ask for definitions of D/s, M/s, and surrounding concepts even at a small dinner party, you're bound to get multiple conflicting opinions. So to answer this question at all, I have to answer from my personal viewpoint which I already know is frequently not shared by other Masters or Doms. If I ever feel the need to question my legitimacy as a Master, I only have to go ask the nearest Dom what he thinks ;)

Dominance refers to having power or influence over others. To me, influence is the more important form of dominance since we do live in a consensual society. That sounds like a leader to me. A slave won't be a slave very long if the Master ceases to provide protection and opportunities for growth. That is, a Master will lose his influence over that slave. To me, that is the essential element of the "exchange" concept: the slave exchanges control for protection and growth. Any Master can prove this truth for himself by dropping his guard and allowing his slave to stagnate, and then measuring how quickly the tables turn :)

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 8/2/2016 10:57:02 AM   
OsideGirl


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Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: noaxis
opportunities for growth.



I thought you had a really good post, but this is always one sticking point with me. I see a lot of guys that have sent me blurbs telling me that they'd make me into the best person I could be. I've often wondered how would a D type do that and how are they qualified to that? (Especially since a lot of the guys who sent me that blurb didn't seem to have their own shit together)


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Profile   Post #: 53
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