joether
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I am not a socialist and I know this is not directed at me but let's just say economy should serve the American society at large much more than it is now. Now I mean as a matter of course, which unfortunately requires govt. but not in the liberal sense that passes programs on a patchwork, feel-good basis to make up for an economy...that serves the investor class much more than society at large.
It is amusing how people take the words 'liberal' and 'conservative'; passing them around without ever stopping and learning their definitions.
Thanks to those "...liberal sense that passes programs on a patchwork...." the last recession was not as hard on the poor and middle class as previous recessions. It staved off the possibility of an economic depression (shored up with the ARR of 2009). Crime usually rises in recessions; yet in this last one it went down. Why is that? You wish to slam liberal viewpoints and programs; yet, how well would the nation have survived under a conservative stance? To programs, political will, and freedoms of every-day-citizens? We would still be in a economic depression (at worst) or a recession (at best). Yes, thanks to President Obama and the Democrats, our nation survived the events of 2006-2008; coming out of the recession before Mr. Obama's first term was up. All the leading and trailing indicators of a healthy economy are currently showing up in today's Wall Street Journal.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
The main reason liberal programs are such as they are, is that they only try to make up govt's. failure in truly managing the economy in a truly conservative ideology. I.e., rather then enjoy a bipartisan approach and set the larger big picture as in what most of our founding fathers believed in how govt. should treat economy and also, most of the early free market philosophers.
The main reason liberal programs are such as they are; is because liberals tend to be good people. They happen to give a shit about other people. Jesus, was a liberal and a socialist. Those programs came into being after people studied the problems encountered and asked 'how do we keep people from falling through the cracks'. How does one enjoy liberty if they are a slave to oppression? Be it political, economic, religious, or all three?
This nation has not really see 'bipartisan' support since the early days of the Clinton Administration. Back when the Republican and Democrat parties held a rather 'equal' sum of liberals and conservatives. As that first term processed, liberals started joining the Democrats, and conservatives the Republican party. When the economy was shit, Republicans were in control. When the economy was rising or healthy, Democrats were in control. Democrats want the nation to push forward. Using better technology, economic ideas, and helping our fellow Americans out of problems. The Republican party wants the exact opposite. Don't believe me; look at both party's stance on handling student loan defaults. Democrats would like to simply forgive; since many of those in default are not likely to pay soon, later, or within their life time. Republicans are completely draconian; those borrowers should pay up.....or else!
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
They (the economic left) too are willingly corrupt (along with far too much of the right) in selling out to a more soft handed approach that results in our heavy industries, many of our middle and low skilled jobs being shipped off. a 70,000 page tax code full of riddles, tax credits, plus govt. restrictions on imports on many consumer products or none at all on many others and a flat out immoral differentiation of income based most cynically on the investing class needing even greater incentives while the working class. does not. (you've got to explain that one to me)
This one has to be broken up:
A ) Corruption
To say that only liberals are corrupted is to be completely ignorant of conservatives. Yeah, there is some corruption from the liberal side. But that is like comparing my writing skills to that of Shakespeare. The conservatives have piles, depths, and massive degrees of corruption. They tried to engineer the nation's economy to fail to make Mr. Obama a one term president. They tried to bring anything and everything against Mr. Obama in an attempt to stain him. Should I bring up Benghazi here? Or the 65+ failed attempts to remove funding from the ACA? How about staking the US Supreme Court with conservative judges whom vote the party line.....NOT....the Constitutional line (i.e. Heller vs. DC)?
Here is the sad part about conservative corruption: conservatives can not hold the people they vote into power to any level of real accountability nor responsibility. Need an example? Let's look at how many useful things the Republican controlled Congress has accomplished in the last two years? Not a single big bill. Compared to when the Democrats had control of the Congress for two years: The Affordable Care Act was past. We are currently around day 1760+ since the moment Republicans stated they would deliver a job's bill to Congress.
Where is the outrage by conservatives? So silent one could drop a pin in that room and be blown over by the shock wave!
B ) tax code full of riddles, tax creedits, plus govt restrictions
The typical conservative can not understand the tax code. Then again, the typical conservative could not read the Iran Treaty or understand the 2nd amendment correctly. The typical conservative is the most brainwash individual whom listens to propaganda rather than facts. What do they say is their defense to this? "Everyone else is corrupted". Yet the problem with this line of thinking (other than being childish) is that their political party has become the opposite of free. They are the 'Ministry of Truth' and the "Ministry of Peace'; for anyone that gets those references....bonus points!
The tax code is fairly easy to navigate if one remains patient, asks questions to individuals that study tax code, and have a good meal before and afterward. No, they become angry and frustrated. What happens when people become angry and frustrated? They stop thinking rationally and clearly. Violence soon follows. Again, the code is easy, if one simply reads through it. The more money you make, the more likely you can hire an H&R Block rep to help navigate the process. If you are REALLY rolling in the dough; you hire a CPA.
C ) immoral differences
Immoral differences? And WHOM determines what is immoral? The pseudo christians that are supporting Mr. Trump (whom tries for high scores on the game: Seven Deadly Sins)? They 'fiscal conservatives' whom overlooked the nation debt that rose sharply under GWB's administration and then bullshit the Obama administration placed more debt? Yeah, conservatives really are not known for their honesty and integrity when it comes to money. Then they mix in religion to justify immoral actions and viewpoints.
Tell me, what is more immoral: Helping 100,000 refugees fleeing a warzone. Sheltering, feeding, clothing, giving medicine, helping them to get back on their feet in a free nation? Or pushing them away?
It was amusing to watch pseudo christians that are conservative push to keep Syrian refugees from our nation's borders. Saying we had no room, not enough resources, and one of two could be terrorists. If we have no room, why the fuck is Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, or Texas in our nation? If we do not have the resources; maybe we should just tax the rich and mega corporations that do not pay taxes more? Are we as Americans afraid of terrorists? For conservatives? Fuck Yeah! For liberals: Not really.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
What we see is not the traditional conservative regime that the US started out with and even 100 years later...saw grow even worse with the robber barons and monopoly. To want real reform that would take us back to what I call the real conservatism and away from a sort of oligarchic corporatism we have now...is not socialism.
The United States of America started out with a very liberal view on both government and politics. Most conservatives of today would have been Tories of the day. Conservatives have tried many times (and failing each time) to wrap the American flag around themselves to justify evil, criminal, immoral, and unconstitutional actions. This nation saw tyranny many times; often while conservatives were ignorant of the reality. Need proof?
Define 'Liberal Nanny State'? Give examples of actual 'liberal nanny states'.
Define 'Conservative Nanny State'? Give examples of actual 'conservative nanny states'.
To many conservatives, they can rattle off the liberal nanny state definition, but are very short on examples.
The grand majority of conservatives (and some liberals) could not rattle off what a 'conservative nanny state' would look like, nor give examples. Even though there are hundreds of examples. I could utter a one word hint that would help people define the conservative nanny state....
...but where would the fun be in that?
To have real reform, MrRodgers, would be electing Mr. Sander's as President, placing Democrats in control of Congress for eight years, and placing two liberals on the US Supreme Court bench. The removal of several conservative supreme court rulings, better election reform rules, being adults when it comes to the national budget and debt; and acknowledging we are in 2016 and not 1950's America would go a long way to improvements to this nation. We have tried the whole 'conservative Republican improvements and reform' and frankly.....it sucks!
Your political party is about pushing fear onto the masses. Its about keeping the poor and middle class controlled and obedient. Its about scores of lies that do not hold up to economic or scientific examination. Your party is corrupt to the core! An you can not hold them to any level of real accountability nor responsibility with power. Nor hold them to twice those standards you say Democrats and liberals should live up to. If you did, you would NEVER want Trump, Cruz, or any of the clown care candidates to be a US President. You would remove McConnell and his band of hateful asshats. An agree to Mr. Obama's US Supreme Court nomination. But you cant. Your afraid. The GOP owns you like cattle.....STILL....
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