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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 4:11:17 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I just gotta ask, other than rapists, who out there is running around forcing women to get pregnant?


there's also this implied crazy notion of that since some, if not most people might be amenable to abortion in certain rare circumstances, we have to throw the floodgates open and let anyone who wants, have them for whatever reason.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 5/19/2016 4:14:00 AM >

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 4:16:08 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I just gotta ask, other than rapists, who out there is running around forcing women to get pregnant?

Looks like BigJobs wants to, doesn't it?

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 4:39:59 AM   
Staleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

it looks pretty "plain and simple" to me that it involves the purposeful taking of an innocent human life and in the overwhelming majority of cases, right thinking people would classify that as murder.

that that doesn't occur across the board is evidence of the polluted liberal thinking in general, and of the pro-abortion position in particular.




If you think an embryo is a human life that shows we need to bolster education, not kowtow to stupidity.

It has the potential to develop into a human life, but then so does most of the sperm you throw in the toilet when you give yourself a handjob.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:04:12 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

It has the potential to develop into a human life, but then so does most of the sperm you throw in the toilet when you give yourself a handjob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:08:32 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

personal choice.

Stupid fucking choice if you ask me. Which you didn't, but what the hell, I'll tell you anyway, because I'm nice like that.

well it was a stupid fucking question, but hey,it takes all sorts

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:25:15 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:


quote:

It has the potential to develop into a human life, but then so does most of the sperm you throw in the toilet when you give yourself a handjob.


dcnovice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk


You beat me to it. I was going to post that vid too - it seems so appropriate for this thread.
Nothing you say or how you say it changes how appropriate really is! Appropriate plain and simple and every time you try to say it's not I will remind you of the truth!



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/19/2016 7:29:53 AM >


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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:37:38 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

It has the potential to develop into a human life, but then so does most of the sperm you throw in the toilet when you give yourself a handjob.



That's ironic. That's almost exactly how I feel about most lefties and ALL abortionists.



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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:40:41 AM   
Lucylastic


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yes yes, you have told us before.


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 5/19/2016 7:41:08 AM >


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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:47:12 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

it looks pretty "plain and simple" to me that it involves the purposeful taking of an innocent human life and in the overwhelming majority of cases, right thinking people would classify that as murder.

that that doesn't occur across the board is evidence of the polluted liberal thinking in general, and of the pro-abortion position in particular.


If you think an embryo is a human life that shows we need to bolster education, not kowtow to stupidity.

It has the potential to develop into a human life, but then so does most of the sperm you throw in the toilet when you give yourself a handjob.


sorry there pro baby killer. its nothing other than a human life from the moment of conception. the only thing "potential" after conception is its development.

ive posted this before, here it is again, for your education

quote:



“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

“The zygote is human life….there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception.”

“The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.”

“….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” [ironically this one comes from the dept of health and human services]

“A zygote (a single fertilized egg cell) represents the onset of pregnancy and the genesis of new life.”

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/01/08/41-quotes-from-medical-textbooks-prove-human-life-begins-at-conception/


please note the sources (geneticists, molecular biologists, embryologists, etc. predominantly from embryology texts)---as if they were needed independent from plain common sense---if you want, i'll hunt up their contact information and you can write to tell them they need to be "educated" also.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 5/19/2016 7:53:09 AM >

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:54:02 AM   
mnottertail


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Standing in a garage does not make you a car. A zygote is not a human.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 8:11:15 AM   
Staleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

it looks pretty "plain and simple" to me that it involves the purposeful taking of an innocent human life and in the overwhelming majority of cases, right thinking people would classify that as murder.

that that doesn't occur across the board is evidence of the polluted liberal thinking in general, and of the pro-abortion position in particular.




If you think an embryo is a human life that shows we need to bolster education, not kowtow to stupidity.

It has the potential to develop into a human life, but then so does most of the sperm you throw in the toilet when you give yourself a handjob.


sorry there pro baby killer. its nothing other than a human life from the moment of conception. its just not fully developed to the point where it can live on its own.

ive posted this before, here it is again, for your education

quote:

quote:

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

“The zygote is human life….there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception.”

“The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.”

“….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” [ironically this one comes from the dept of health and human services]

“A zygote (a single fertilized egg cell) represents the onset of pregnancy and the genesis of new life.”

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/01/08/41-quotes-from-medical-textbooks-prove-human-life-begins-at-conception/


please note the sources (geneticists, molecular biologists, embryologists, etc. predominantly from embryology texts)---as if they were needed independent from plain common sense---if you want, i'll hunt up their contact information and you can write to tell them they need to be "educated" also.




You''re either so utterly thick you can't see the shiny object dangled by those stupid websites to distract you, or you're so dishonest you're even lying to yourself.

NOTE: I am not going to actually prove this but just say it. Medicine is my field of expertise (specifically epidemiology). I'm not a doctor, not at all. But I am someone very well versed in biology and life-sciences. And as such a someone well versed, I am actually offended by the total and complete horseshit you just posted. Most of the times I read shit here and the only emotion provoked is a sort of weary "oh no, really?" But that crap from the "independent" site of "lifenews"? I don't really care whether you believe me or not, I am not saying this to try to add weight to my argument, but I am merely explaining why your argument pisses me off so much.

Ok, let me first agree with you that everything there is absolutely technically correct. In fact it is so technically correct it is using that technical correctness to hoodwink the hard-of-thinking.

Yes, life begins at conception. Totally true. Without conception you don't have a self-replicating molecule which is striving for independent existence (one of the defining characteristics of a living entity). So sperm, egg, independent of conception are nothing at all like a fertilized embryo. Technically.

You problem is that the exact same thing can be said of the yersinia pestis bacteria. Ohh and clostridium botulinum. It can't really be said for H1N1 or Ebola. But we can say that each mycobacterium leprae is very much a life.

And guess what, plasmodium falciparum actually has a tiny little tail it wags to get away from things trying to kill it, and to propel itself towards food to feed itself. Fear? A desire to live? Survival instincts at the genetic level. For all intents and purposes it has a more advanced nervous system (by some scientific standards) than a 4 week old human embryo.

Are you out there objecting strongly to a malaria vaccine?

USE YOUR BRAIN!

There is a difference between protecting ALL life, protecting HUMAN life, and dishonest/uneducated brain-addled swamp things taking quotes out of context from books they can not possibly understand and using them to re-affirm the prejudices of the idiocracy.

For the record I don't like abortion either. In fact I detest it, albeit probably for very different reasons you do (I find the idea of aborting, for example, disabled fetuses is back-door eugenics). But I can't honestly argue against it being an option for people as a human fetus up until around 12 weeks or so is little more than a parasitic growth in terms of what it qualifies as when we talk about life.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 8:12:50 AM   
bounty44


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"We encourage pro-life groups and individuals to use these images, keeping in mind the words that pollster Harrison Hickman spoke to the 1989 conference of the National Abortion Rights Action League"


quote:

"Nothing has been as damaging to our cause as the advances in technology which have allowed pictures of the developing fetus, because people now talk about that fetus in much different terms than they did fifteen years ago. They talk about it as a human being, which is not something that I have an easy answer how to cure."



Day 1 - conception takes place.

"Many internationally-known geneticists and biologists have testified that human life begins at conception. In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question: When does human life begin? Following are testimonies from two of the doctors who testified:"

quote:


1. Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman of the Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, said: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

2. Dr. McCarthy de Mere, a medical doctor and law professor at the University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."

"The Father of Modern Genetics" Testifies
Dr. Jerome Lejeune, known as "The Father of Modern Genetics," also testified that human life begins at conception before the Louisiana Legislature's House Committee on the Administration of Criminal Justice on June 7, 1990.


7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.

Dr. Lejeune explained that within three to seven days after fertilization we can determine if the new human being is a boy or a girl. "At no time," Dr. Lejeune said, "is the human being a blob of protoplasm. As far as your nature is concerned, I see no difference between the early person that you were at conception and the late person which you are now. You were, and are, a human being."

10 days - mother’s menses stop.

18 days - heart begins to beat.

21 days - pumps own blood through separate closed circulatory system with own blood type.

28 days - eye, ear and respiratory system begin to form.

42 days - brain waves recorded, skeleton complete, reflexes present.

7 weeks - photo of thumbsucking.




8 weeks - all body systems present.

"Doctor handed live baby at 8 weeks gestation...Consider Dr. Rockwell's testimony:
"Statement by Paul E. Rockwell, M.D.:"


quote:

"Eleven years ago while giving an anesthetic for a ruptured ectopic pregnancy (at 8 weeks gestation), I was handed what I believe was the smallest living human ever seen. The embryonic sac was intact and transparent. Within the sac was a tiny human male swimming extremely vigorously in the amniotic fluid, while attached to the wall by the umbilical cord. This tiny human was perfectly developed, with long, tapering fingers, feet and toes. It was almost transparent, as regards the skin, and the delicate arteries and veins were prominent to the ends of the fingers."

Dr. Rockwell continues, "The baby was extremely alive and swam about the sac approximately one time per second, with a natural swimmer's stroke. This tiny human did not look at all like the photos and drawings and models of 'embryos' which I had seen, nor did it look like a few embryos I have been able to observe since then, obviously because this one was alive! When the sac was opened, the tiny human immediately lost his life...


9 weeks - squints, swallows, moves tongue, makes fist.

11 weeks - spontaneous breathing movements, has fingernails, all body systems working.




12 weeks - weighs one ounce.

16 weeks - genital organs clearly differentiated, grasps with hands, swims, kicks, turns, somersaults, (still not felt by the mother.)




18 weeks - vocal cords work – can cry.

20 weeks - has hair on head, weighs one pound, 12 inches long.




23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*

24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*




25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*

http://www.prolife.com/FETALDEV.html

http://priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/fetaldevelopment.htm


quote:

It’s especially critical to show people the images of babies aborted in the first trimester. It is in regard to such children, who constitute 90% of abortion victims, that the myth persists that they are not really children at all.


At 7 weeks:





And later:



looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck---its a human life.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 5/19/2016 8:22:07 AM >

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 8:23:44 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

it looks pretty "plain and simple" to me that it involves the purposeful taking of an innocent human life and in the overwhelming majority of cases, right thinking people would classify that as murder.

that that doesn't occur across the board is evidence of the polluted liberal thinking in general, and of the pro-abortion position in particular.


If you think an embryo is a human life that shows we need to bolster education, not kowtow to stupidity.

It has the potential to develop into a human life, but then so does most of the sperm you throw in the toilet when you give yourself a handjob.


sorry there pro baby killer. its nothing other than a human life from the moment of conception. the only thing "potential" after conception is its development.

ive posted this before, here it is again, for your education

quote:



“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

“The zygote is human life….there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception.”

“The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.”

“….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” [ironically this one comes from the dept of health and human services]

“A zygote (a single fertilized egg cell) represents the onset of pregnancy and the genesis of new life.”

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/01/08/41-quotes-from-medical-textbooks-prove-human-life-begins-at-conception/


please note the sources (geneticists, molecular biologists, embryologists, etc. predominantly from embryology texts)---as if they were needed independent from plain common sense---if you want, i'll hunt up their contact information and you can write to tell them they need to be "educated" also.

Unless the zygote implants in the uterine wall, it statistically 99.99* will die.
And unless removed surgically or diagnosed early enough(wether or not it is re implanted surgically) it will hurt the woman carrying it too.
Oh and its the leading cause of maternal death in the first trimester.


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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 8:33:53 AM   
Staleek


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Ohh look, pictures.



SAVE THE TORTOISES!

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 8:34:09 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

"We encourage pro-life groups and individuals to use these images, keeping in mind the words that pollster Harrison Hickman spoke to the 1989 conference of the National Abortion Rights Action League"


quote:

"Nothing has been as damaging to our cause as the advances in technology which have allowed pictures of the developing fetus, because people now talk about that fetus in much different terms than they did fifteen years ago. They talk about it as a human being, which is not something that I have an easy answer how to cure."
[huge wodge of pictures cut]
It’s especially critical to show people the images of babies aborted in the first trimester. It is in regard to such children, who constitute 90% of abortion victims, that the myth persists that they are not really children at all.
looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck---its a human life.

So what are you anti abortion moralists doing to make having an unwanted child more attractive to a woman who wouldn't be able to feed the kid?
(Gathering in crowds outside family planning clinics to shout insults and abuse doesn't count, btw.)
There isn't, as several have pointed out already, a single word in the Bible about abortion (though, despite the oh noes, sperm is not a baby, there is a warning against wasting ejaculate), but Christ had quite a bit to say against allowing people to go hungry or homeless.
So, again: assuming that you can succeed in enforcing an abortion ban, how will you feed and house and house all these unwanted kids?

< Message edited by WhoreMods -- 5/19/2016 8:35:09 AM >


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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 9:28:40 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

Ohh look, pictures.



SAVE THE TORTOISES!



Oooo! Haeckel's faked drawings!

Staleek, can you please tell me the story of the Piltdown man next?

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 9:42:34 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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LOL
This is just too fucking funny

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 9:44:15 AM   
tweakabelle


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The history of abortion is quite revealing. While abortion had been prohibited from the second century, it appears that this was widely ignored and:

"Pope Sixtus V (1585–90) was the first Pope to declare that abortion is homicide regardless of the stage of pregnancy;[150] the Catholic Church had previously been divided on whether it believed that abortion was murder, and did not begin vigorously opposing abortion until the 19th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#History_and_religion

"With the papal bull Apostolicae Sedis moderationi of 1869, Pope Pius IX, without making any distinction about the stage of pregnancy, listed as subject to an excommunication from which only a bishop could grant absolution those who effectively procured an abortion.[17] The authors of one book have interpreted this as "Pius IX declared all direct abortions homicide",[18] but the document merely declared that those who procured an effective abortion incurred excommunication incurred excommunication reserved to bishops or ordinaries.[19] In 1895, the Church specifically condemned therapeutic abortions.[20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion

It seems that the Church's teaching was mainly directed at those who "procured" abortions and not the women who underwent abortions. Women who had abortions seem to have escaped the Church's wrath until 1895, when it first prohibited medically indicated abortions.

The Catholic Church's opposition to abortion relies on its claim that abortion contravenes the "Natural Law". It seems to me quite odd that it took almost two millennia for this 'natural' law to be discovered and enforced. Without doubting the sincerity of many anti-choice people, it does seem remarkable that the vehemence with which the Church opposes abortion is recently acquired.


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/19/2016 9:48:08 AM >


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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 10:30:30 AM   
Staleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The history of abortion is quite revealing. While abortion had been prohibited from the second century, it appears that this was widely ignored and:

"Pope Sixtus V (1585–90) was the first Pope to declare that abortion is homicide regardless of the stage of pregnancy;[150] the Catholic Church had previously been divided on whether it believed that abortion was murder, and did not begin vigorously opposing abortion until the 19th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#History_and_religion

"With the papal bull Apostolicae Sedis moderationi of 1869, Pope Pius IX, without making any distinction about the stage of pregnancy, listed as subject to an excommunication from which only a bishop could grant absolution those who effectively procured an abortion.[17] The authors of one book have interpreted this as "Pius IX declared all direct abortions homicide",[18] but the document merely declared that those who procured an effective abortion incurred excommunication incurred excommunication reserved to bishops or ordinaries.[19] In 1895, the Church specifically condemned therapeutic abortions.[20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion

It seems that the Church's teaching was mainly directed at those who "procured" abortions and not the women who underwent abortions. Women who had abortions seem to have escaped the Church's wrath until 1895, when it first prohibited medically indicated abortions.

The Catholic Church's opposition to abortion relies on its claim that abortion contravenes the "Natural Law". It seems to me quite odd that it took almost two millennia for this 'natural' law to be discovered and enforced. Without doubting the sincerity of many anti-choice people, it does seem remarkable that the vehemence with which the Church opposes abortion is recently acquired.



It's actually way way more complicated than that.

During the middle ages the silk road was running at a fair old rate, bringing all kinds of cool shit from the far east. They didn't just bring cool this though, they brought the plague. Although it effected the Chinese populations their immune systems had acclimatized to it quite nicely but westerners had not seen this thing since the plague of Justinian 6 centuries earlier. Huge numbers of people died. In some cities and towns well over half the population. It effected everyone whether rich or poor, old or young.

If you read up on life then it's fascinating. When the plague first hit there are death certificates given, named victims in the historical records, and records of the possessions they had being passed on to their relatives. In just a few years it turns to numbers of bodies and laws against building plague pits "near persons of notabilitie"

Basically they had an apocalypse, and after the plague there was genuine fear in Europe that humanity might die out. The church, which had taken on a very big role in peoples lives then (death all around people would naturally turn to religion) felt its own mortality at stake as well. They took steps...

Not only was any form of abortion considered a deadly sin but also contraceptives were considered crimes against god. The midwives of the day who took care of those sorts of things were denounced as witches and burned alive or otherwise executed.

Like most things in history there is a logical pattern, however illogical the consequences.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 10:39:20 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

"With the papal bull Apostolicae Sedis moderationi of 1869, Pope Pius IX, without making any distinction about the stage of pregnancy, listed as subject to an excommunication from which only a bishop could grant absolution those who effectively procured an abortion.


Well, somebody's got to say it: What a lot of papal bull.

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