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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 6:39:28 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		On one hand, it's nice to think of Saturday's shooting as isolated. This is one shooter. He reportedly claimed allegiance to ISIS. What does this massacre by this person say, really, about the state of LGBT rights and acceptance in the modern United States? Perhaps nothing.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/13/opinions/sutter-orlando-shooting-vigil/index.html

THIS made me roll my eyes! It just amazes me that people are denial that it's a specific religion is against LGBT rights, and has nothing to do with modern United States and their people.

As the United States Ambassador to the U.N., Samantha Power, said following that U.N. briefing: "This is not an issue, by any means, confined to ISIL... You have countries that have criminalize LGBT status."
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/13/world/isis-persecution-lgbt/index.html

That article spots 13 Islamic Nations that has death penalty for gay people. Shooter was from a country that has death penalty for gay people. To not form any Islamic connection, is like...., seriously!! The religion is the problem!!!!! Clinton and Obama refusing to acknowledge that this is radical Islam. That's screwed up!


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/13/2016 6:48:40 AM >

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 6:59:40 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I always mentioned that my bestfriend is a staunch lib rooting for Hillary. His first comment to me was that, IF Trump was President, more of this shit will happen, because Trump is pro-NRA and NRA is the greatest evil on earth for refusing to ban assault weapons and also influenced the Republicans from voting against banning gun sales to people on terrorist watch list. Basically his been trying to convince me why Hillary is better. Anyway, I don't believe Trump is pro gun, just like I don't believe Trump is pro-abortion. I believe his just by default has to support all the classically Republican things.

So, while I think Americans actually do need guns for self-protection. Like, someone with a gun would really come in handy in shooting back this mass shooter.

But yea, I don't understand why republicans vote against terrorists watch list folks from getting hold of guns? That would be a good law to have! Of course the reason is as usual, the people compiling terrorist watch lists are incompetent and you got innocents in there. Always back to government inefficiency of doing anything right!

And I don't think people needs access to guns that has more than 6 bullets at one go. Is that really necessary? Even for shooting exercises, surely more reloading isn't such a torture?




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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 7:43:26 AM   
AgentBlack


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Status: offline 		@ greta.
Reason why is cause our country was built using equal firepower against lthe greatest military in the world at that time.
Americans vs the tories redcoat british.
The American Revolution.
Our Constitution. Garuntees its is our right to posess the same firepower as a common soldier.
say.. 200 years from now...
Gun control happens citizens can still have guns... But only 1 bullet! and that bullet must not exceed 400 feet per second.

Meanwhile another country has been machining guns too..
their guns though.. Hold 100 bullets and shoot 3,000 feet per second...
the other country sees something in our country that they want..

In this event you want your Constitution Of The United States Of America.
We have the right to bear arms.
to me its not debatable its a Constitutional right.

Gun crimes are not a constitutional right.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 7:45:28 AM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

A few interesting quotes from a Washington Post story about the killer's father:

“I think he just wanted to boast of himself,” the elder Mateen told The Post late Sunday in an interview from his home in Port St. Lucie, Fla. “No radicalism, no. He doesn’t have a beard even. . . . I don’t think religion or Islam had anything to do with this.”

* * *


The elder Mateen said he planned to travel to Orlando and visit those who were injured or lost loved ones in the shooting at a nightclub popular with the city’s gay community.

“If they’re not ready, I still say to them, ‘I’m sorry,’ ” he said. “I’m saddened for their injury or if they lost their dear one.”

* * *


Seddique Mateen, speaking in Dari, concluded the video by expressing disbelief that his son took it upon himself to seek retribution against the LGBT community.

“God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality,” he said. “This is not for the servants” of God.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-orlando-shooters-afghan-roots/2016/06/13/d89a8cd0-30e4-11e6-ab9d-1da2b0f24f93_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_flaafghan-503am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory


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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:07:38 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		I am uncertain whether we will ever be able to disentangle the warped motives behind this outrage. On the evidence I have seen to date it doesn't seem possible.

However if I was American I would certainly be taking note of the fact that the nutcase was twice investigated by the FBI who apparently cleared him of terrorist involvement. His ex-wife has some pretty nasty things to say about him too, and the violence he brought into their relationship, which ought to set off another set of alarm bells somewhere or other .....

One thing that I do hope for (though I wish I could be more optimistic about it) is that I never want to hear anyone ever downplay or minimise the negative effects of queer phobia again.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:17:42 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is partially why I reject Peon's primitive belief that everyone has a place on the so-called left/right political spectrum.


That would my 'primitive' belief and that of nearly everyone who has a PhD or above in political science, Awareness, you berk.
A claim you cannot substantiate and which - even if it were true - would simply condemn you as a regurgitaor of doctrine taught by other regurgitators of doctrine. Your insistence that political ideologies be taken at face value is appallingly naive and demonstrates that you simply were not taught to think.


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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:22:15 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
That article spots 13 Islamic Nations that has death penalty for gay people. Shooter was from a country that has death penalty for gay people. To not form any Islamic connection, is like...., seriously!! The religion is the problem!!!!! Clinton and Obama refusing to acknowledge that this is radical Islam. That's screwed up!

The shooter was born in New York.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:24:17 AM   
thompsonx


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A claim you cannot substantiate and which - even if it were true - would simply condemn you as a regurgitaor of doctrine taught by other regurgitators of doctrine.

No matter how many times you regurgitate it a2+b2=c2...maybe pythagoreas ws right?

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:25:34 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Another sobering read:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/06/here-are-all-the-people-applauding-the-orlando-gay-club-shooter/
Twitter is a fucking cesspool. On any given day you can find more than 16 people expressing hatred for any fucking group you like. Gay men, lesbians, trans, black women, white men, cis-normative-hetero-parental-units (IE: fathers), stick-insects and vegetables. In a group of 300 million fuckwits, you're always going to find the dregs of humanity. This is not news unless your picture of humanity is appallingly underdeveloped.


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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:29:13 AM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Greta says the guy comes from a country with the death penalty for gays (he doesn't). Well, I guess he walked into a death penalty of his own but just to fuck his aspirations of glory and all those virgins, bury the bastard in a pigskin and bleed a hog out over his grave. Or better than burying him, airfreight him to Isis someplace they are holding. Let them open their Christmas present there.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:45:30 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Awareness

A claim you cannot substantiate and which - even if it were true - would simply condemn you as a regurgitaor of doctrine taught by other regurgitators of doctrine.

No matter how many times you regurgitate it a2+b2=c2...maybe pythagoreas ws right?
Let me explain the difference between mathematical consistency and behavioural modelling.

Pythagorean identity is a an idea built upon mathematical axioms. Having defined the foundations of geometry, the pythagorean theorem was discovered and tested for internal consistency by a wide variety of people.

In contrast the left/right paradigm for political allegiance is simply a model which attempts to explain human behaviour. It has no intrinsic validity - the true test of any model is its ability to predict the future. And given the number of people - like myself - who reject the two-party system and the underlying left/right paradigm it's become clear that this model is incomplete and creaky.

Part of the reason for this is the understanding that increasingly, some aspects of political allegiances are trending toward an authoritarian/libertarian axis. The rampant political correctness of the left is exactly like the censorship mentality of the hard-right. The suppression of ideas on the basis that they "make people uncomfortable" is identical to the censorship of ideas because they "are unamerican" or "go against God's law". The freedom of speech ideals from the left have vanished to make way for "safe spaces" and attempts to manipulate and control society through proclamations about "trigger warnings" and "micro-aggressions".

The left has increasingly become a haven for useless malcontents incapable of contributing to society in any meaningful way. And the right is seeing a desertion from the old guard by young people who are increasingly uninterested in propping up corporate America. Don't get me wrong, these people are still capitalists, but they're also not stupid and recognise the corporate yoke for what it is.

So what do we have here? We have a society which Bernie Sanders has ably demonstrated is far more interested in income inequality and getting big money out of politics than anyone could have predicted. However that group is not a homogenous one which supports socialism, but a coming together of various political allegiances who support the return to a democratic republic. The young people are overwhelmingly for Sanders because they respond to genuine authenticity and aren't content with the lies their parents swallowed hook, line and sinker.

The left/right dichotomy is not an accurate model, it's a tool to attempt to corral people into one of two camps controlled by parties which are largely the same. Hilary Clinton is a Republican in everything but name and she'll continue the legacy of big money in politics and Washington kowtowing to corporate America. She's a disaster for the American people and I'm in real doubt that she'll be a better President for the country than Trump.

Peon's insistence of the left/right model as an authoritarian take on the reality of politics is simply because he's a lazy thinker and because he doesn't want people to actually think for themselves. Like the right, the left has built a substantial power base on a bunch of lies and if people start thinking for themselves, that power base will be threatened.

Watching Peon insist his primitive broken model is an accurate reflection of reality is amusing. No political commentator predicted the success of Sanders precisely because their thinking is similarly constrained. And because - as I've pointed out - there's an awful lot of regurgitation going on and precious little thinking.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:51:09 AM   
thompsonx


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There were Quaker pirates, but does that mean that as a whole Quakers were no different than the Barbary pirates whose whole society ran on Piracy.


Mensa ellligible????Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:52:54 AM   
thompsonx


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And there are far more Moslems who follow this creed than there ever were Klansmen.

Let me guess???you took math at the university of dumbass didn't you? How many muslims are there and how many klansman are there?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:56:26 AM   
thompsonx


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Honest answer, the .223 isn't much beyond a varmit round.

Is that why the military uses them to kill people?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 8:58:01 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Awareness
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


A claim you cannot substantiate and which - even if it were true - would simply condemn you as a regurgitaor of doctrine taught by other regurgitators of doctrine.

No matter how many times you regurgitate it a2+b2=c2...maybe pythagoreas ws right?



Let me explain the difference between mathematical consistency and behavioural modelling.

What you have posted is rather fatuous and sophomoric. Mental masturbation seems to be your long suit.


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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 9:00:05 AM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline 		Ah, I see, you don't understand it. Never mind, then.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 9:02:37 AM   
thompsonx


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Our Constitution. Garuntees its is our right to posess the same firepower as a common soldier.
say.. 200 years from now...


I remain unconvinced the courts would agree.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 9:03:53 AM   
thompsonx


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Ah, I see, you don't understand it. Never mind, then.


I understand sophmore goblydigook well enough to read the pigeon shit you post.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 9:18:07 AM   
Awareness


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Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline 		*chuckle* Oh, I don't think so. I'll try and use fewer syllables next time.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 9:54:41 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Peon's insistence of the left/right model as an authoritarian take on the reality of politics is simply because he's a lazy thinker and because he doesn't want people to actually think for themselves. Like the right, the left has built a substantial power base on a bunch of lies and if people start thinking for themselves, that power base will be threatened.


Jesus Christ you're a windbag, Awareness. As pointed out to you, now on many, many occasions, the vast majority of political scientists use the right/left axis. The chief reasons why you don't are a) because you don't understand it and have only the most superficial acquaintanceship with it and b) because you're so monumentally egotistical that you like to think you're 'above' it. You're making a standard first year undergrad political science student's mistake.

The 'power base' that's fragile and causing a spluttering furious defence isn't that of political scientists. It's your own. You just aren't the intellectual legend in your own time that you think you are. I mean, hell ... were you a Zeppelin in a former incarnation? I've never seen such a thin skin wrapped around so much gas.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/13/2016 9:55:49 AM >

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