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RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 10:57:29 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Were any of your crimes murder, or other felonies?


Pretty much depends on your point of view.


Brilliant, from the laws point of view.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 11:03:37 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

You people pick on the NRA and think they are all nuts, but I have yet to see one report of any of their members going postal, or even committing a murder and in fact any crime at all.

So troubleshoot the problem logically and get back to me. I am tired of the bullshit.

T^T

...and drugs cartels don't take drugs.

Just like the NRA and their supporters, they provide the means for people to get the killing machines with ease and let others do the killing; they don't do it themselves to keep their noses clean and reap the profits.
The more people that get hurt or killed, the more they can beat the "more guns for defense" drum - and get even more profits.

What's comonality here?
It's not race or religion or even politics - it's the gun, and the ease of availability.
The NRA block anything that might prevent nutjobs buying guns.

Logic? There is none - unless you remove the guns from Average Joe Schmoe.

Now you'll have the gun-nuts talking about automobile deaths.
They'll argue we should remove cars with the same logic.
Bad analogy.
You don't often see jihadists or burglars or assailants or mental cases using a car to mow down crowds of people.
If you're on drink or drugs, you'll get due process (as you should) when you're caught.
And you can't exactly tuck a car under your arm or shove it in your pocket.
You also can't kill people from a distance either - unlike a gun.

Yes, a gun is an inanimate object and can't do anything on it's own.
But just think... if they allowed heroin or crack cocaine to be sold in supermarkets at knock-down prices in bulk or at the local corner shop.
Do you think that allowing even more drugs will help the situation??
No, it won't.
And if you think otherwise, you'de better find a good shrink or a good lawyer.
The same is with guns.
Guns should be treated like any other narcotic - because the dependency on them is killing innocent people and making big profits for the few at the top of the pile.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 11:08:52 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

You people pick on the NRA and think they are all nuts, but I have yet to see one report of any of their members going postal, or even committing a murder and in fact any crime at all.

So troubleshoot the problem logically and get back to me. I am tired of the bullshit.

T^T

...and drugs cartels don't take drugs.

Just like the NRA and their supporters, they provide the means for people to get the killing machines with ease and let others do the killing; they don't do it themselves to keep their noses clean and reap the profits.
The more people that get hurt or killed, the more they can beat the "more guns for defense" drum - and get even more profits.

What's comonality here?
It's not race or religion or even politics - it's the gun, and the ease of availability.
The NRA block anything that might prevent nutjobs buying guns.

Logic? There is none - unless you remove the guns from Average Joe Schmoe.

Now you'll have the gun-nuts talking about automobile deaths.
They'll argue we should remove cars with the same logic.
Bad analogy.
You don't often see jihadists or burglars or assailants or mental cases using a car to mow down crowds of people.
If you're on drink or drugs, you'll get due process (as you should) when you're caught.
And you can't exactly tuck a car under your arm or shove it in your pocket.
You also can't kill people from a distance either - unlike a gun.

Yes, a gun is an inanimate object and can't do anything on it's own.
But just think... if they allowed heroin or crack cocaine to be sold in supermarkets at knock-down prices in bulk or at the local corner shop.
Do you think that allowing even more drugs will help the situation??
No, it won't.
And if you think otherwise, you'de better find a good shrink or a good lawyer.
The same is with guns.
Guns should be treated like any other narcotic - because the dependency on them is killing innocent people and making big profits for the few at the top of the pile.


As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 11:10:28 AM   
mnottertail


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As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.


There is absolutely no proof of that, by credible citation.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 11:12:42 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Beat me to it Ron.

He spouts this crap every time and never comes up with ANY creditable citation for it.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 11:37:13 AM   
mnottertail


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I have mentioned that very same thing to him several times, don't think anyone notices it though..........LOLOLOLOL

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 11:53:43 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.


There is absolutely no proof of that, by credible citation.

Other than the FBI, CDC, Bloomberg, and several other studies. But of course those are only credible sources if they agree with you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 11:59:42 AM   
Staleek


Posts: 361
Joined: 6/1/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.


There is absolutely no proof of that, by credible citation.

Other than the FBI, CDC, Bloomberg, and several other studies. But of course those are only credible sources if they agree with you.


The CDC?

Didn't the Nutcase with Rifles Association lobby for a ban on them studying gun violence?

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

Why I think they did!

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 12:03:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.


There is absolutely no proof of that, by credible citation.

Other than the FBI, CDC, Bloomberg, and several other studies. But of course those are only credible sources if they agree with you.


The CDC?

Didn't the Nutcase with Rifles Association lobby for a ban on them studying gun violence?

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

Why I think they did!

The CDC verified the validity of the FBI's estimate of 1 million plus defensive firearms uses per year, and no I don't know whythey thought it was their business either. They did not do the study, but they verified the FBI figures.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Staleek)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 12:07:16 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
The Myth of Defensive Gun Use

**Note – This article appeared in Politico on 1/14/2015

In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.

In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.

The claim has since become gospel for gun advocates and is frequently touted by the National Rifle Association, pro-gun scholars such as John Lott and conservative politicians. The argument typically goes something like this: Guns are used defensively “over 2 million times every year—five times more frequently than the 430,000 times guns were used to commit crimes.” Or, as Gun Owners of America states, “firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.” Former Republican Sen. Rick Santorum has frequently opined on the benefits of defensive gun use, explaining: “In fact, there are millions of lives that are saved in America every year, or millions of instances like that where gun owners have prevented crimes and stopped things from happening because of having guns at the scene.”

It may sound reassuring, but is utterly false. In fact, gun owners are far more likely to end up like Theodore Wafer or Eusebio Christian, accidentally shooting an innocent person or seeing their weapons harm a family member, than be heroes warding off criminals.
edited to add links
Original story
http://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/
The first paragraph was from
http://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 6/22/2016 12:46:56 PM >


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(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 12:25:30 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.


There is absolutely no proof of that, by credible citation.

Other than the FBI, CDC, Bloomberg, and several other studies. But of course those are only credible sources if they agree with you.


The CDC?

Didn't the Nutcase with Rifles Association lobby for a ban on them studying gun violence?

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

Why I think they did!

The CDC verified the validity of the FBI's estimate of 1 million plus defensive firearms uses per year, and no I don't know whythey thought it was their business either. They did not do the study, but they verified the FBI figures.



Should be pretty easy to come up with a citation on the https://www.fbi.gov/ citation of its 'estimate' which is simply pud pounding, nevertheless....
and the matching http://www.cdc.gov/ verification.

Lets see your sources of credible citations, because nutsuckers would make that news from day one, and we wouldnt be hearing about no fucking droll election.

That would play 24/7/365 from day one for our lifetimes.




_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 12:29:22 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Depending on whose numbers you believe, there are anywhere between 3 and 6 million members of the NRA. If you honestly think that none of them have committed any crimes, including murder, you're seriously deluded. "

Yeah. you mean maybe they shoplifted as a kid, got a DUI or maybe sold a bag of weed ? Real criminals are rapists, murderers and thieves, that is what I meant.

No. I don't mean that, or I would have said that. One example; I used to belong to a gun club whose insurance carrier required all club members to be NRA members. In the 7 years I was a member there, I know of six instances where members were arrested and convicted for firearm theft on the club's property. Those are just the ones I know about but seeing some of the idjits that rotated in and out of the club on a regular basis, I seriously doubt those are the only crimes.

quote:

And statistically, mathematically, it is quite possible the none of them committed and REAL crimes. IT is VERY probable that none of them have committed murder.

Being mathematically possible is an astronomical leap from "VERY probable".

quote:

Now next in the line of logic toots is, do you think thieves and rapists would join the NRA ? Seriously ? That would be the last thing on their mind. They would certainly never want to be on a list which is why they buy their guns off the books.

Interesting use of "logic" there. I suppose that would make some kind of sense if such crimes were only perpetrated by career criminals or people who were afraid of their names being on some list because they joined an organization like the NRA. They're not, and only an incredibly naive person would believe otherwise.

quote:

Members of MY FAMILY, and families of my and our friends were members. They were all reasonable, law abiding people. You are just assuming that people who would join such an organization might be criminals. But you have not logically figured this out. Think objectively.

Really? The tales you have told about life in Termyland and of "the olman" paint quite a different picture.

quote:

You are just assuming that people who would join such an organization might be criminals. But you have not logically figured this out. Think objectively.

Irony. Quaint.

quote:

There was a shooting at a restaurant not log ago. Some people decided to rob it and come in with guns. Well there was a patron there that stood up and shot one of the thugs. His cousin (also Black BTW) got all over the place calling for more gun control, because her fucking thug, punk, criminal cousin might still be alive.

I'll bet those pesky black thug punks weren't NRA members, right? There! Your point is proven!




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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 12:41:39 PM   
WhoreMods


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Joined: 5/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
And statistically, mathematically, it is quite possible the none of them committed and REAL crimes. IT is VERY probable that none of them have committed murder.

Being mathematically possible is an astronomical leap from "VERY probable".

I cited a couple of examples of senior NRA members who were charged with murder after shooting people under fishy circumstances a page back.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 12:52:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.


There is absolutely no proof of that, by credible citation.

Other than the FBI, CDC, Bloomberg, and several other studies. But of course those are only credible sources if they agree with you.


The CDC?

Didn't the Nutcase with Rifles Association lobby for a ban on them studying gun violence?

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

Why I think they did!

The CDC verified the validity of the FBI's estimate of 1 million plus defensive firearms uses per year, and no I don't know whythey thought it was their business either. They did not do the study, but they verified the FBI figures.



Should be pretty easy to come up with a citation on the https://www.fbi.gov/ citation of its 'estimate' which is simply pud pounding, nevertheless....
and the matching http://www.cdc.gov/ verification.

Lets see your sources of credible citations, because nutsuckers would make that news from day one, and we wouldnt be hearing about no fucking droll election.

That would play 24/7/365 from day one for our lifetimes.




I have given cites repeatedly but you refuse to accept anything you disagree with as "credible".

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 1:05:56 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I have given cites repeatedly but you refuse to accept anything you disagree with as "credible".

Nothing to do with whether we agree with them or not.
What you cite is just not a creditable source of info.
Lucy has already debunked your 'Defensive Gun Use' myth that you trot out at every opportunity.

It's akin to citing Faux Snooze as a creditable source of 'unbiased facts' - it's laughable.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 1:14:07 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

As oppossed to what you sat, and no doubt believe, firearms are used to prevent far more crimes than they are used to commit.


There is absolutely no proof of that, by credible citation.

Other than the FBI, CDC, Bloomberg, and several other studies. But of course those are only credible sources if they agree with you.


The CDC?

Didn't the Nutcase with Rifles Association lobby for a ban on them studying gun violence?

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

Why I think they did!

The CDC verified the validity of the FBI's estimate of 1 million plus defensive firearms uses per year, and no I don't know whythey thought it was their business either. They did not do the study, but they verified the FBI figures.



Should be pretty easy to come up with a citation on the https://www.fbi.gov/ citation of its 'estimate' which is simply pud pounding, nevertheless....
and the matching http://www.cdc.gov/ verification.

Lets see your sources of credible citations, because nutsuckers would make that news from day one, and we wouldnt be hearing about no fucking droll election.

That would play 24/7/365 from day one for our lifetimes.




I have given cites repeatedly but you refuse to accept anything you disagree with as "credible".

You are a fucking liar, nothing from the fbi and cdc on this, not ever, if you have ever given a site its a nutsucker slobber blog refelching a nutsuckerslobberblog. If you have done it repeatedly (something you do with factless asswipe all the time) it should be pretty easy to get a hold of that.

You dont give a fuck if I believe you or not.

You are going to say your stupid shit regardless.

But you have no such citations, and have never given them.

Because no such credible citations are available.

http://www.collarchat.com/searchpro.asp?phrase=fbi+cdc&author=BamaD&forumid=ALL&topicreply=both&message=body&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND&minRank=0&sortMethod=d&submitbutton=+OK+

There is what you got with fbi or cdc in it, show us.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 1:25:45 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
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I pick on people who own boomsticks.
If you wish me to pick on the NRA and idiots, I will do so; But they are but part of the herd, sheople, woebegone – like cake in my hovel of wretch. Your piece is actually sophistry no wonder I get irked (sometimes).

Didn’t one of your militia lot try and make a stand..the nuances of his stand escape me. But that was a stand to far.
Guns kill end of story…& perhaps olde age and sex with 374 nymphomaniacs

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 1:35:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I have given cites repeatedly but you refuse to accept anything you disagree with as "credible".

Nothing to do with whether we agree with them or not.
What you cite is just not a creditable source of info.
Lucy has already debunked your 'Defensive Gun Use' myth that you trot out at every opportunity.

It's akin to citing Faux Snooze as a creditable source of 'unbiased facts' - it's laughable.


Bloomberg stated half a million defensive uses of firearms a year, but when they realized that they had told the truth for once they removed it from thier site. The FBI extimated the number at over a million. CDC verified the FBI's numbers, metohds, and results. I have posted this cite repeatedly but you don't want it to be true so you proclaim it to be an invalid cite. There are studies that indicate the number may exceed 2 million but I didn't cite them because they aren't government figures or clear anti gun credintials.
Of course only anti gun sources are the only ones that are "credible".
Your definition of credible is based, whether you admit it to yourself or not, based on what you have chosen to believe. If you were a flat earther nothing proving the earth was round is credible. In my personal experience
(freinds, relatives, and me) 2 crime actually committed, neither involving armed resistance, at least 8 stopped every time with armed resistance, number of stopped crimes reported 0.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 1:37:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
http://nraontherecord.org/larry-craig/

This must be your credible citation, because you have no others not bloomberg, not the fbi, not the cdc.

You got nothing, but Larry Craig, as I have explained to nutsuckers before.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/22/2016 1:44:24 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
he has NEVER been able to show bloomberg, its his last resort , he has never shown a cite from the cdc or the fbi

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Profile   Post #: 40
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