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So, I have a question - 6/23/2016 2:09:38 PM   
newbiesub1977


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Even though I have always known that there must be more to relationships than what I was getting with vanilla, I never quite knew what it was. I met Sir a short while ago and (god only knows how Sir was so patient about it) we accidentally discovered that the Dom/sub dynamic works for us. Sir has had a similar relationship before, but this is completely new to me. I find a deep and absolute satisfaction in submitting to Him and find immense pleasure and arousal in following his commands, even when I am not with Him.

Earlier in the week He has me go through slave rules to indicate where i was willing to go and we plan to discuss it this weekend. up to this point i have been completely OK with everything, loving it in fact. I have never felt more complete and happy in my entire life. However, a couple of days ago He mentioned something about me walking on all fours when we are alone. This is where my question come in.

my one and only goal is to please Sir. From a Master's point of view, what happens when I do not want to do what he wants? I want to please him, but feel uncomfortable with the idea of walking around like a dog? it is a complete mindf^ck for me as i do not want to risk making him unhappy when everything has been going so well. Is that sort of thing a dehumanizing exercise or does it invoke respect from a Master? i am afraid of having the discussion because I so want to please Sir, but also want to retain respect?
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/23/2016 2:39:01 PM   
OsideGirl


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You've already asked this question. Cross posting is against the forum guidelines.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to newbiesub1977)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/23/2016 3:09:37 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: newbiesub1977
my one and only goal is to please Sir.

No, it's not. You are not a robot. You are a human with your own goals, hopes, dreams and wishes. It's best to remember that even though it may never change the end-outcome of your decisions. In this case your other goal is to retain your self-respect so you might as well acknowledge that openly. Self-respect is a good thing.

From a Master's point of view, what happens when I do not want to do what he wants?
I give Carol lots of guidance that she doesn't like. Usually I'm fine with that and I just want her to obey. The fact that she disagrees is unfortunate, but not that big of an issue. Other times I need to her actually change her viewpoint and so I work towards that end. In general I assume (since no two people ever see things identically) that she's going to dislike and/or disagree with some of what I want of her. Within reason I see it as not worthy of any concern or response so long as the feeling doesn't interfere with obedience.

With our relationship, obedience was always a given but that's hardly true of all relationships. Even so, sometimes despite her best efforts the internal challenges Carol might face for a given command were daunting and I was faced with reconsidering whether the command was a good idea or working her through whatever the internal problem was. Obviously, I preferred to get my way but I'm also a realist and sometimes reality simply intrudes. Sometimes the benefit turns out to be not worth the cost or it turns out the command wasn't going to achieve the desired result. In those cases, reality wins and I abandon the plan.

I want to please him, but feel uncomfortable with the idea of walking around like a dog?
So why does crawling seem like such a problem and is it really? Take a look inside yourself and see if you can figure out why it's a problem. Is there some particular trigger there? I crawl around all the time for perfectly normal reasons like fetching something from under the bed. If you crawl around to please your Dom is that a less worthy goal than retrieving the lost flashlight from under the bed? Does it make you less of a person in some way?

I'm just encouraging you to look closely at your own internal reactions. In the end crawling is simply a body posture. It is you who's placing the baggage on it. Sure, one way to look at it is "dehumanizing". Another way to look at it is "being a great sub". Yet another way to look at it is, "making your partner happy." Are you sure you're looking at it the right way and placing the right valuations on it?

it is a complete mindf^ck for me as i do not want to risk making him unhappy when everything has been going so well.
Either decide it is a boundary or don't. Like all decisions in life, there are pro's and con's. Only you can really sort it out. Unless your Dom has indicated that he's looking for a TPE relationship, however, discussion of limits and boundaries is pretty normal.

Ultimately, you absolutely have the right to have limits and boundaries and you absolutely have the right to enforce them. If he wants a TPE relationship and you don't then all that means is you two aren't compatible. It happens.

Is that sort of thing a dehumanizing exercise or does it invoke respect from a Master?
I never set out to dehumanize Carol although I suspect she may have interpreted some of my commands in roughly that way. Sometimes I just plain enjoyed watching Carol submit in the same way one might enjoy taking a hairpin curve a bit too fast in a responsive sports car. But in order to get that thrill, you need to go a bit too fast -- you need to stress the system a bit. For me, that translated to deliberately pushing her to submit in uncomfortable ways and quickly. How it made me feel was proud and appreciative of her efforts, confident in my leadership, and pleased with my property. Such things tighten the dynamic between us and thereby empower the relationship.

I am afraid of having the discussion because I so want to please Sir, but also want to retain respect?
Have the discussion. In pretty much every single relationship problem that has ever existed, the write prescription is "talk". Talk about your respective desires for boundaries and limits and where such things might be. Talk about your feeling of degradation at being made to crawl "like a dog". Listen to his reasons for wanting it. Be a team. Try to remember that you dumping your problems at his feet doesn't mean you won't obey and it is (at least in my opinion) his job in the same way that's it's my job to fix my car when the check engine light goes on.

Look at it this way. If he's unable or unwilling to have that conversation then it's probably best you find that out now. I wouldn't consider that a good sign for his abilities to handle authority and responsibility.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 6/23/2016 3:10:14 PM >


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to newbiesub1977)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/23/2016 11:59:36 PM   
newbiesub1977


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WOW!!!!! Thank you so much for your input. It could not have been put better. I really apperciate it

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 9:35:57 AM   
DesFIP


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However, pushing difficult things can wind up exploding in both your faces.
That's usually referred to as hitting an emotional trigger.

He tried humiliation on me and my response was to run away. Literally. He had to wrestle me down and hold me still until I calmed down.

We prefer to work on things slowly, talking them out, me having time to think about it before trying it again.
And sometimes just talking about it can trigger panic in me. If that happens, then he knows not to try it.

But if he must have pet play to be happy, then he lied by omission by not explaining this first so you would have the option to consent or refuse. Waiting until you've got someone on the hook before springing stuff is unethical. How will you handle it if he comes in with ten friends and springs a gangbang on you?

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 9:55:31 AM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

However, pushing difficult things can wind up exploding in both your faces.
That's usually referred to as hitting an emotional trigger.

He tried humiliation on me and my response was to run away. Literally. He had to wrestle me down and hold me still until I calmed down.

We prefer to work on things slowly, talking them out, me having time to think about it before trying it again.
And sometimes just talking about it can trigger panic in me. If that happens, then he knows not to try it.

But if he must have pet play to be happy, then he lied by omission by not explaining this first so you would have the option to consent or refuse. Waiting until you've got someone on the hook before springing stuff is unethical. How will you handle it if he comes in with ten friends and springs a gangbang on you?


I think these are very important points.

OP, it sounds like you're still in the discussion phase about all of this. You may or may not want to eventually "unpack" why you feel the way you do about crawling on all fours, but IMO, this really is not the time for that. Use this time to your advantage- to discuss things that you may or may not want to try, and to tell him exactly the way you feel about these things.

*If* he is disappointed about your feelings about trying particular things, I can't see that being anyone's issue but his.

Also, I agree in terms of just speeding through things that are uncomfortable. Yeah, while some might like that rush, that is hardly a hallmark of "true Dominance or submission". (BTW, OP, in case you weren't aware, there is no such thing.)


(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 9:58:05 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
But if he must have pet play to be happy, then he lied by omission by not explaining this first so you would have the option to consent or refuse. Waiting until you've got someone on the hook before springing stuff is unethical. How will you handle it if he comes in with ten friends and springs a gangbang on you?

Lot's of people engage in crawling and it's not pet play. It's frequently used as an objectification/position/headspace thing and I put money on that being his intention.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 10:31:56 AM   
LilJuly76


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before I got arthritis in one of my knees I had a few relationships where I was on all fours crawling towards the Dominant I was involved with as part of a ritual, had noting to do with pet play.

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 10:34:39 AM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
But if he must have pet play to be happy, then he lied by omission by not explaining this first so you would have the option to consent or refuse. Waiting until you've got someone on the hook before springing stuff is unethical. How will you handle it if he comes in with ten friends and springs a gangbang on you?

Lot's of people engage in crawling and it's not pet play. It's frequently used as an objectification/position/headspace thing and I put money on that being his intention.


The point still stands though, doesn't it?

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 10:46:23 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
But if he must have pet play to be happy, then he lied by omission by not explaining this first so you would have the option to consent or refuse. Waiting until you've got someone on the hook before springing stuff is unethical. How will you handle it if he comes in with ten friends and springs a gangbang on you?

Lot's of people engage in crawling and it's not pet play. It's frequently used as an objectification/position/headspace thing and I put money on that being his intention.


The point still stands though, doesn't it?

If he has lied by omission about needing pet play - yes. But, I think in this case the assumption that it's anything more than something pretty common in BDSM relationships/fantasy/porn is inaccurate. (Occum's Razor) He has told her that he wants this, so he's being up front about it. He's not automatically the bad guy.

No one covers every single thing they desire on the first day of a relationship, that doesn't make them liars. I think it's great that he wants to spend a weekend discussing things - a lot of Doms don't.



_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 11:02:41 AM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

If he has lied by omission about needing pet play - yes. But, I think in this case the assumption that it's anything more than something pretty common in BDSM relationships/fantasy/porn is inaccurate. (Occum's Razor) He has told her that he wants this, so he's being up front about it. He's not automatically the bad guy.


This is definitely one of those situations where I'd be very interested in hearing the other side.

No, he's not automatically the bad guy, but I get the impression that there's some miscommunication going on here.

He's got experience, OP does not. OP has agreed to submit to him apparently without boundaries being delineated. Whatever else is going on here is just conjecture on everyone else's part. While I don't think that DesFIP's scenario is necessarily what is going on, I also don't think that it should be dismissed off hand.




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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 2:01:36 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
He's not automatically the bad guy.

Heh, I haven't read anything in all of this that makes anyone the bad guy -- or even makes me suspect that there might be a "bad guy" in this non-drama. I see a new relationship working out some of the rough edges. He wants her to crawl for whatever reasons seem appropriate to him. She doesn't want to for reasons which seem important to her. Sounds like every-day life in a relationship.

In my mind this doesn't turn into a drama till after this weekend and somehow it turns out the conversation went stupidly... either by her refusing to be up-front with her emotions or him refusing to care about them.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/24/2016 4:17:35 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I see a new relationship working out some of the rough edges.
Especially when one partner is new. Being A Dominant or being A submissive is learned behavior. There are going to be some rough patches simply because she's learning a new relationship style

quote:

Sounds like every-day life in a relationship.
Which is exactly what I said in her other post - In the end, it's just a relationship. Don't make it harder than it is by trying to follow some nonexistant rule created by others.

I'm hopeful for them. She's thinking about what she is feeling and he set up a time to talk. So, I'd like to give it some optimism.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/27/2016 2:37:32 AM   
newbiesub1977


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Thank you all for the your feedback and comments. So we had our talk this weekend and the idea that I had in my head is completely different from what he has in mind. I suppose being new to this, it is a matter of getting on the internet and reading up as much as possible about everything. The unfortunate result me getting myself into a complete state of panic about the extreme end of the spectrum, where he has no intention of going.

I am truly greatful for your your comments

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/27/2016 3:15:16 AM   
LilJuly76


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I wouldn't suggest reading stuff online, you want to know something or what he has in mind talk to him. the lifestyle is about communication, if you can't communicate to your Dominant then there is a serious problem. Tonnes of wrong information online.

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/27/2016 9:12:40 AM   
OsideGirl


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I'm glad it went well for you. Communication is the best tool you can have. And again


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Don't make it harder than it is by trying to follow some nonexistent rule created by others.




Whatever the two of you agree to do and however the two of you decide to set up your relationship is up to you.



_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: So, I have a question - 6/27/2016 11:20:51 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76
I wouldn't suggest reading stuff online, you want to know something or what he has in mind talk to him.

That's certainly how I would like it anyway. Lord knows if Carol had gone onto the internet and "learned" stuff I'd have gone nuts in the first 3 months. Our actual relationship bears little to no relationship to an "internet BDSM relationship". I'm glad that when she didn't understand where I was going with something she just asked me.

OsideGirl also was spot on with:

quote:


ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Don't make it harder than it is by trying to follow some nonexistent rule created by others.


It's hard enough to have a successful and happy relationship. Inviting the entire internet into it seems unwise LOL. Also, in my experience, most of the people making up BDSM rules have little or no demonstrable track record forming long-term relationships and most of their rules are recipes for disaster. I especially like the folks who start out with "I've owned dozens of slaves so in my experience...." Every time I read that I read, "I couldn't hold a relationship together to save my soul so..."

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 6/27/2016 11:22:15 AM >


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LilJuly76)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: So, I have a question - 6/27/2016 12:25:13 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I especially like the folks who start out with "I've owned dozens of slaves so in my experience...." Every time I read that I read, "I couldn't hold a relationship together to save my soul so..."

That's the way I read it too.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/27/2016 1:38:59 PM   
LilJuly76


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being taught from the ground up I was always taught the submissve takes the orders from the Dominant they are involved with nobody else, so whatever joe smoe smuck head tries to give me orders online I just laugh at them. That's why I always tell newbie subs to never read online and don't listen to orders online by someone you aren't even submitting to.

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: So, I have a question - 6/27/2016 2:34:03 PM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76

That's why I always tell newbie subs to never read online


That's a shame, considering all of the information that is out there- if one can use it wisely.

(in reply to LilJuly76)
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