quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Nookie, you clearly have no concept of exchange of humor, or you are intentionally trying to be a bitch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I mean hell, the funniest thing I have seen lately were two comics doing a point/counter point humorous debate on everything from dating to the differences between male and female doctors.

And the fact it was in Polls and other random stupidity should have been a hint, at least to most.

I mean in one long dead thread "Holly and Potty show" there were ten pages debating the proper way to put toilet paper on a roll, along with a number of pages that were basically "you might be OCD if..."

Hell the biggest thing for male comics is to talk about some of the stuff that women make a big deal about but, men for the life of us, cant figure out why.

I mean what is the big deal if you go to a party and see a woman wearing the exact same dress?

Or closet space? I have seen women with closets the size of a damn bedroom and the first thing out of their mouths when they walk in is "I have nothing to wear?"

How about that finger digging in a guys back at 3 in the morning to ask a question that clearly could have waited till the sun was up?

Seriously, I have a lot of female friends that I am basically the big brother or surrogate father to, and I have no problem with it.

But when you have heard the same damn saga about poor boy friend choices at least twice a year for 10 years and then she drops the "why cant I find a guy like you." on you, give me a break.

IF she really wanted a nice guy, she would find a nice guy. Lets face reality, guys are not that hard to read. If deep down inside he is a scheming bastard looking to get laid, it will come out.

And when she has been warned by the women she hangs with, me, the guys that go to the same places, I mean DUH!

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

And quite frankly, the idea of a humorous thread about the pros and cons of the dating scene, was I thought a good idea. When you consider the fact that everyone of us has had some experience with some real winners (sarcasm if you dont know) is long over due.

Consider it an alternative to the "messages from the other side" thread, or compliment of it.

However, there is something I want to get off my chest.

Too many on this site are so fucking serious that it is not even funny. Male and female alike.

It seems that everything you (for example see posted) has to be taken seriously.

Polls and Random stupidity should give you the hint that serious was the last thing on my mind.

To put it another way, its kind of like the last scenes of Close Encounters of the Third kind.

The government built this super secret facility to meet the aliens.

The aliens are flying a ship that is a VTOL craft.

And what do the brains do, turn on runway lights!

All that was needed would have been the equivalent of a helipad.

Anyone that has watched the movie could see it was an attempt at humor, but some science types seem to have missed it.

And to be honest, the "why cant I find a guy like you" is not original, at least six comedians have done variations of that over the last 20 years, including Robin Williams, Dennis Leary, and George Carlin.

Each with their own twist on the response.

However, many guys have heard the line to the point it rates up there with the question, "Does this dress make me look fat?" or "my butt big" etc. It has become a staple of the comic routine.

Then there are the stories that go around about the guy who bought his wife, girlfriend etc a stun gun for protection and decided to try it out on himself.

There is a variation of the story about the cowboy who tries to catch a deer to raise in captivity.

Then of course, there are those humans who are incapable of seeing the humor, or even interacting with it. And to be quite honest, you folks are the funniest of the lot.

I mean, it is so easy to bait a trap on message boards, and you can pretty much know who is going to take the bait, even when you go out of your way to make anyone with a decent sense of humor the clear hint that it was meant in jest.

So, thank you nookie, for doing what you do best.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have been working on a non-fiction book (might even be considered humor/irony.)

Now, if 55 years, I have learned a few things about women, things that men need to know.

1) If you are the 'niceguy' that every woman can talk to, confide in, cry on your shoulder, you are fucked.

Seriously, if you have a female friend that always comes to you when her current boy friend turns out to be an ass, jerk, and general douche, and you have been trying to set up a change in your status with her, you are not going to get anywhere. If she comes to you to cry and moan about the flaws in the guy that she just found out has been cheating, or whatever, you are forever stuck in the friend zone.

To put it bluntly, if you ever heard the words "Why cant I find a guy like you." you will never be anything more than the big brother or shoulder to cry on.

To be quite blunt, she does not want a guy like you, because then she would not be able to bitch about the men she goes out with.

In other words, dont be so nice.

The last woman that said that to me, I calmly looked her in the eye, and said, "Bitch I have been listening to the same crap for 10 years, and I have been right here, you really did not need to search for what was in front of you."

I then turned up the ball game and proceeded to stop listening to the latest verse of the "poor me" saga.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

There is also the fact that many "nice guys" are really being nice to try to trade for better benefits. Women feel this, and it kills any possibility for sex.

This.
Ten thousand times this.

Which is as it should be because the attempted nice guy stutter step ninja style is about the sleaziest move a fucking guy can make.
A-It's dishonest and deceptive;
B-It's uber fucking manipulative;
C-Its fucking creepy sliming up next to a girl on the pretenses of caring when in reality all the guy wants is a piece o ass;
D-It denigrates her by presuming that she's too fucking dumb to see through the charade; and
E-The sexiest thing to most women is confidence(Note I said confidence, not being a pretentious fuck or an overbearing presumptive asshat). The nice guy stutter step is passive aggressiveness taken to the nth degree and its the exact fucking opposite of being confident.

Look folks, this is easy shit.
I don't know about you, but when I meet a girl, at some deep internal level, pretty much the first thought that, completely unbidden and without any effort or consideration thereof, crosses my mind is, "Would I want to fuck her."*
How I react to her afterwards is 100% predicated on the answer to that question.
But if you like a girl, tell her.
It doesn't have to be point blank, "Man, do I want to bone your hot ass!" but in general, if I am looking and the answer is yes, I make sure she knows I'm interested real fucking quick.
Like double time.
Because I don't want to get shoved in that friend box (Which is almost impossible to escape from, despite a thousand Hollywood movies to the contrary).
I let her know in no uncertain terms that I have a sexual interest.
I want her to know I'm a predator and that the sights are locked on her.

Fuck. One never knows. She may just be sitting on the same feelings re me and if I don't make that move, something that could have been spectacular could just pass us both by.
One unerring rule of life is that you miss 100% of the shots you never take.

Have some guts. Develop some cojones. Grow some Balls and tell the snatch what you really feel about her.
Yeah, she may say no. But that's better than spending a decade sniveling around like a begging dog hoping she notices what a 'great guy' you are...which, BTW, you aren't, because real Great Guys (Patent pending) don't treat women like that.
And it's far far better than being the insurance policy for her to fall back on if things don't go well, more time spent being an emotional tampon.

The truth is that she doesn't want an asshole.
She wants a guy with the guts to sack up and be honest about how he feels and what he wants.

Fuck folks, Women don't want a man that can understand them-That's impossible. They want a Man that understands himself, his wants, his needs, and his desires.

And if things don't work out and she has no interest or says no, then you can decide if you really want to be friends on an honest level.

But friends don't become friends based on false motives and deceptive behavior. Psychopaths and manipulative fucks do. But not friends, because friendship should be rooted in healthier shit than that.
Any friendship based on Good Guy Syndrome is a lie and a farce since the guy is acting out of toxic motives.

Just sayin'




*And before you wenches give me too much shit about this, studies have shown the same thing happens to women, ecept they think 'kiss' instead of 'fuk"

quote:

Fuck folks, Women don't want a man that can understand them-That's impossible. They want a Man that understands himself, his wants, his needs, and his desires.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think that's the whole conflict between a "gentleman" and a self-styled "nice guy" (who's trying to use that as a weapon to bully somebody into relationship) jlf set up in his OP, in a nutshell, isn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think that's the whole conflict between a "gentleman" and a self-styled "nice guy" (who's trying to use that as a weapon to bully somebody into relationship) jlf set up in his OP, in a nutshell, isn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Either way, the whole presumption burdens the gentleman or a NG with always with having an ulterior motive. A guy just can't be a real gentleman or a sincerely nice guy, he's always after something, either it be some ass or a favor...something in exchange.

These are entirely ridiculous prejudicial presumptions and leaves so many it appears, to come to the conclusion there really is no such person at all...as a truly nice guy or a gentleman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
There is also the fact that many "nice guys" are really being nice to try to trade for better benefits. Women feel this, and it kills any possibility for sex. GG and less NG.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think that's the whole conflict between a "gentleman" and a self-styled "nice guy" (who's trying to use that as a weapon to bully somebody into relationship) jlf set up in his OP, in a nutshell, isn't it?

I'm not sure if you mean the irony of "complaining" about women to get women to complain about men, then claiming that those who "misunderstand his motives" have no humor or are simply determined to be bitches.

But yeah. THAT is a shining example of being a Twoo Nice Guy:

1. Say something "in jest."
2. Watch for results.
3. When there is no positive response, blame the audience for taking a "joke" too seriously.

Here's another version:

"Hi! You're beautiful. I'd love to be your submissive."
"No, thank you, I don't do online."
"Fuck you, you syphilitic cunt. I was just kidding/throwing you a bone/trolling you."

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Either way, the whole presumption burdens the gentleman or a NG with always with having an ulterior motive. A guy just can't be a real gentleman or a sincerely nice guy, he's always after something, either it be some ass or a favor...something in exchange.

These are entirely ridiculous prejudicial presumptions and leaves so many it appears, to come to the conclusion there really is no such person at all...as a truly nice guy or a gentleman.

Really? Huh. I don't see that at all.

When explaining how Nice Guy Syndrome works, there HAS to be the assumption that there is a way to be nice without the attending behaviors. Explaining how to avoid them cannot happen otherwise.

To me, it's a very clear thing. Like the difference between a dominant and a top. It's almost always clear in their overall energy, and made clearer through their behavior, when they display their intentions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Except that being a nice person of either sex should be the pre...sumption and that's not most of the premise in your original post. I've always felt to let people hang themselves on their own petard...if there is one. Judgment must await any attending behaviors and quite a few that need time and a thorough understanding before one decides on any ulterior motives and even then, could still be a misinterpretation.

One's over all behavior is the key and one should never allow any presumptions of any ulterior motive, to cloud any judgments. To me, energy and other otherwise vague subjectivities are poison to knowing really what is in another's mind and yes...even their hearts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Except that being a nice person of either sex should be the pre...sumption and that's not most of the premise in your original post. I've always felt to let people hang themselves on their own petard...if there is one. Judgment must await any attending behaviors and quite a few that need time and a thorough understanding before one decides on any ulterior motives and even then, could still be a misinterpretation.

One's over all behavior is the key and one should never allow any presumptions of any ulterior motive, to cloud any judgments. To me, energy and other otherwise vague subjectivities are poison to knowing really what is in another's mind and yes...even their hearts.

You're missing the point.

We're not talking about actual nice people. We're talking about the self-proclaimed "nice guys," like the OP. Those who whine about being passed by, even though they are so awesome, so nice, and women tell them they would love a guys "just like them" all the time.

So yeah, people should be genuinely nice and caring. That was actually a part of the conversation that you missed—where the distinction was made between Nice Guys (NGs) and Genuine Guys (GGs).

As far as presumptions. Again, if you'd read what I wrote and what others, including Greta write, you will see that we are not presuming. We are sensing, and eventually being proven right. That's why nice guys have to complain. Because it's clear to the rest of us where their motives lie.

quote:

Genuine Guys (GGs)

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You're missing the point.

<--- snip --->

She turned him down flat saying he was "too nice."

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Genuine Guys (GGs)

Small point: I couldn't see where you'd explained that abbreviation earlier. I thought GG meant 'good guy'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

I’ve created a comparison chart to show the differences that I can see. NG refers to the Nice Guy subset in the bad range of behaviors, while GG will refer to the “genuine” nice guy who falls primarily into the good range of behaviors.

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ORIGINAL: Quiette

Why the heck do guys remove physical attraction from the equation every time they start complaining about stuff like this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You're missing the point.

<--- snip --->

She turned him down flat saying he was "too nice."

No. You're missing the point.

If she were attracted to you or those other "nice guys," she would date them. She is desperately looking for a guy who is both nice and sexually attractive to her.

And you bitching about HER life choices, and turning you and guys like you down is sour grapes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You're missing the point.

<--- snip --->

She turned him down flat saying he was "too nice."

No. You're missing the point.

If she were attracted to you or those other "nice guys," she would date them. She is desperately looking for a guy who is both nice and sexually attractive to her.

And you bitching about HER life choices, and turning you and guys like you down is sour grapes.

Let me see if I have this straight.

I hear the same stuff for 10 years, at least 3 times a year.

Me and every other 'nice guy' she knows is not sexually attractive to her, even though at least 3 have been on the local yearly top bachelor picks.

Me telling her that if she really wanted a nice guy, she would quit going out with complete losers that have the rep for fucking anything of legal age, female and breathing is me being critical of her life choices?


Does the fact she is doing this repeatedly figure into the equation at all?

I heard a saying once that makes a lot of sense, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

As I said, her coworkers and I have heard this saga for years. Everyone of us have tried to introduce her to decent men who fit the same physical characteristics of the guys she has been dating.

I socialize with her coworkers a lot. We belong to a local volunteer group that help abused/stalked women in the area. My experience in personal and site security allows me to help these ladies keep these bastards out. (Texas has some really fucked up stalker laws, the cops only act if the woman ends up in ICU or the morgue.)

I know that sexual attraction is more than just looks, but give me a break, if a guy is flirting with every woman in a bar, the odds are he is not the guy you want to take home to meet your mother.

And there is the gist of her complaints, she finds out she is one of many, not 'the one.'

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quiette




I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. She's one woman making bad choices. Okay, that's her right. Doesn't change the fact that she's just not into these nice guys you keep bringing up. Just cause a magazine calls a guy sexy doesn't automatically make him sexy to me. What's this really about? What the heck do you want as an answer?