RE: Is it rape (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Is it rape


Yes
  58% (7)
No
  25% (3)
both women are guilty of rape
  16% (2)


Total Votes : 12
(last vote on : 11/1/2016 12:02:33 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Is it rape (10/29/2016 4:10:36 PM)

quote:

Under feminist doctrine, women are incapable of rape unless they penetrate you. Since you were not penetrated, a woman cannot be held responsible for raping you.

Oh dear, you really are rather misinformed, aren't you?




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Is it rape (10/29/2016 4:12:27 PM)

quote:

as you failed to mention which women

maybe because there is only one woman in your scenario?

Edit: Ignore this, I misread you're OP




Awareness -> RE: Is it rape (10/29/2016 4:14:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Under feminist doctrine, women are incapable of rape unless they penetrate you. Since you were not penetrated, a woman cannot be held responsible for raping you.

Oh dear, you really are rather misinformed, aren't you?
No. By your response, clearly you are.




Awareness -> RE: Is it rape (10/29/2016 4:15:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

as you failed to mention which women

maybe because there is only one woman in your scenario?
There are two. I'm afraid you did your usual thing and didn't understand what you read.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Is it rape (10/29/2016 4:16:16 PM)

LOL
Yes dearie, what ever you say
*pat pat*
here's a cookie, now run along and play with your little friends.




WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Is it rape (10/29/2016 6:54:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Under feminist doctrine, women are incapable of rape unless they penetrate you. Since you were not penetrated, a woman cannot be held responsible for raping you.

Women are innocent, dontcha know. Rape is a male thing, y'see. So is domestic violence. Women are poor, sweet, innocent waifs who wander through life being paid less than men, beaten and raped on a regular basis.

Hnmmmm. The feminist view of the world sounds fucking crazy. Perhaps they're not as rational as I presumed.


Can we not? Can we, just once, not turn the discussion of an individual case into some ridiculous feminist vrs MRA kind of horse hockey?


I would love to, but feminists will not shut the fuck up about rape except when it happens to a man. WD has just posed the same question TWICE but has simply reversed the genders. On the "woman as victim" thread, he got a bunch of responses saying it was rape. On this fucking thread, he has some mockery and one person saying it's maybe rape depending on how he feels about it.

Now this is surprising, given the number of times feminists here keep making claims about how much they care about men. I'd say he's done a fine job of ably demonstrating feminist hypocrisy, wouldn't you?



I made a point of using non gender pronouns, in my post. I used words like "individual" because I do recognize that there is a gender bias in regards to men who are violated non-consensually. So, when speaking of sexual assault in a non-specific situation (such as a hypothetical,) I try to make a point of keeping my responses nonspecific to gender.

I did hesitate to use the word "feels", and believe it was a poor choice of wording. I chose to use it anyway, because a violation of trust is a visceral emotion and any person who was faced with such a violation would "feel" it. Not just think it was,, but feel it. Viscerally, emotionally. Male or female. Still, I should have taken the time to elaborate in my previous post, but the way WD went about presenting his original scenario came across, at first, as his standard M.O. of random WTF Shakespeare'esque hard to decipher post chardonnay post.




LadyPact -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 12:20:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
I would love to, but feminists will not shut the fuck up about rape except when it happens to a man. WD has just posed the same question TWICE but has simply reversed the genders. On the "woman as victim" thread, he got a bunch of responses saying it was rape. On this fucking thread, he has some mockery and one person saying it's maybe rape depending on how he feels about it.

Now this is surprising, given the number of times feminists here keep making claims about how much they care about men. I'd say he's done a fine job of ably demonstrating feminist hypocrisy, wouldn't you?


Stop using "feminist" like it's some kind of dirty word. There are how many years worth of posts here? Show me one comment from any self-identified feminist on this board who has ever said rape was a 'good' thing if it happened to a man. In fact, there used to be a self-proclaimed feminist here that used to urge us to speak up on threads about considering the alarming rate of male on male rape during incarcerations into the figures.

Being the nice person that I am, <grin> I'm going to help you out. I have ALWAYS stated, unequivocally, that a woman absolutely can rape a man. I've even gone so far as to say **I** have the ability to do it. I could sit here half the night and explain the (at least) twelve dozen ways in which I, a 5'2" woman who looks like most people's grandmothers, could do it.

Before you go swinging that club about "women don't care when a man is assaulted," you might want to take a look at the swinging Richard back yard. It's ain't pretty, the way some men treat other men. Something to think about.





PeonForHer -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 2:41:43 AM)

quote:

On this fucking thread, he has some mockery and one person saying it's maybe rape depending on how he feels about it.


You know that I'm a feminist and in post No 18 above I said 'Yes, it's rape'. You've simply got this wrong, Awareness.





heavyblinker -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 4:12:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I would love to, but feminists will not shut the fuck up about rape except when it happens to a man. WD has just posed the same question TWICE but has simply reversed the genders. On the "woman as victim" thread, he got a bunch of responses saying it was rape. On this fucking thread, he has some mockery and one person saying it's maybe rape depending on how he feels about it.

Now this is surprising, given the number of times feminists here keep making claims about how much they care about men. I'd say he's done a fine job of ably demonstrating feminist hypocrisy, wouldn't you?


The other thread didn't mention WD's cats, his 'thick wonton cock of magnificence' or his 'spunk of splendour', and the event wasn't depicted as yet another ode to his obviously imaginary sexual prowess.

In fact, the florid language that usually prevents everyone from taking WD seriously was missing in the second post, replaced by an easy-to-follow bullet-pointed list of the hypothetical events in question.
It was also started after everyone had time to realize he wasn't simply being barely literate porno James Joyce and was in fact attempting to make a point.




thompsonx -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 4:58:10 AM)


ORIGINAL: Awareness

Well according to feminists she may need to think about it for a few years, then get back to you.

Which feminist are you speaking of? The "feminist" sixth grade girl who beat your ass for trying to feel her up or the imaginary one of your dreams?





thompsonx -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 5:00:11 AM)


ORIGINAL: Awareness

Under feminist doctrine, women are incapable of rape unless they penetrate you. Since you were not penetrated, a woman cannot be held responsible for raping you.


Cite please





thompsonx -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 5:01:54 AM)


ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

In this hypothetical situation, of which too many pussies are involved....I would avoid a jury with too many crazy cat ladies if you want a conviction.


My guess is that he is seeking a repeat performance and not a conviction.




thompsonx -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 5:03:55 AM)


ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Can we not? Can we, just once, not turn the discussion of an individual case into some ridiculous feminist vrs MRA kind of horse hockey?


Dreamer.




PeonForHer -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 5:17:24 AM)

quote:

Stop using "feminist" like it's some kind of dirty word.


I think that for Awareness and Respectmen 'feminist' is a dirty word by definition, LP. 'Nice and reasonable person' and 'feminist' are mutually exclusive concepts. To get Awareness to stop using 'feminist' as though it were a dirty word I think you might literally have to boil his head.




thompsonx -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 6:20:55 AM)


ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
To get Awareness to stop using 'feminist' as though it were a dirty word I think you might literally have to boil his head.


More likely a brain transplant would be necessary




ResidentSadist -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 6:52:47 AM)

No it's not rape, unless you were in Israel or in California impersonating their spouse (not girlfriend) for consent. What the hell, deception is one of typical tools people use to get laid in the first place. They often lie and exaggerate about themselves and their intentions. You weren't forced, you were deceived.

I would imagine being given the treat of fucking her friend would have been a lot more fun if you knew it in advance. I would think you knew your girlfriend's scent, recognize the way she feels and sounds and detected the swap?

~~~~~~~~~~~

In the United States... In 2008, a Massachusetts woman, Marissa Lee-Fuentes, unknowingly had sex with her boyfriend's brother in the dark. He could not be prosecuted because Massachusetts law required that rape include the use of force.

In Israel... A legal precedent was set by the Supreme Court in a 2008 conviction of a man who posed as a government official and persuaded women to have sex with him by promising them state benefits. Another man, Eran Ben-Avraham, was convicted of fraud after having told a woman he was a neurosurgeon before she had sex with him.

In 2010, a conviction of rape by deception drew international attention when a man deceived a woman into consensual sex within ten minutes of their first meeting by lying about being Jewish, unmarried, and interested in a long-term relationship.

In Massachusetts they tired but failed... State House Representative Peter Koutoujian crafted rape-by-fraud legislation in response to the 2008 Marissa Lee-Fuentes case, but it didn't pass.

In California... On Feb 2009, Julio Morales snuck into a sleeping 18-year-old woman's dark bedroom after he saw her boyfriend leave. The woman awoke to the sensation of someone having sex and assumed it was her boyfriend. Julio Morales was convicted of rape under two concepts. He was guilty of rape because the woman while she was still asleep and, therefore, unable to consent. He was also guilty of rape-by-fraud because he had impersonated the woman's boyfriend to gain her consent.

He filed an appeal and won because the lower court had misread the 1872 law criminalizing rape-by-fraud. The law states a man is guilty of rape-by-fraud if he impersonates a woman's husband to get consent. The woman in this case was not married, and Morales had impersonated her boyfriend, not her husband. Because of this one technicality, the appellate court overturned Julio Morales's rape-by-trickery conviction in People vs. Morales in 2013.

In 2011 Assemblyman Katcho Achadjian tried to introduce a similar bill in 2011 to close the loophole – introduced Assembly Bill 65 and Senator Noreen Evans introduced Senate Bill 59. The two bills quickly passed both houses without one dissenting vote, and were signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown on September 9, 2013.

Morales was later re-tried on the basis that the woman was asleep and re-convicted to three years in a state prison, which he had already served.

The Yale Law Journal... states Rape-by-Deception is not a crime but suggests that it should be in the following article Published Jan 1st 2013.

-The Riddle of Rape-by-Deception and the Myth of Sexual Autonomy-
“Rape-by-deception” is almost universally rejected in American criminal law. But if rape is sex without the victim’s consent—as many courts, state statutes, and scholars say it is—then sex-by-deception ought to be rape, because as courts have held for a hundred years in virtually every area of the law outside of rape, a consent procured through deception is no consent at all. Moreover, rejecting rape-by-deception fails to vindicate sexual autonomy, which is widely viewed today as rape law’s central principle and, indeed, as a constitutional right. This Article argues against the idea of sexual autonomy and against the understanding of rape as unconsented-to sex. A better understanding, it is argued, can be arrived at by comparing rape to slavery and torture, which are violations of a person’s fundamental right to self-possession. This view of rape can explain the rejection of rape-by-deception, which current thinking cannot, but it will also suggest that rape law’s much-maligned force requirement may not be so malign after all.

Full 72 page article: http://www.yalelawjournal.org/article/the-riddle-of-rape-by-deception-and-the-myth-of-sexual-autonomy

~~~~~~~~~~~

Deception Note... I used to live in Michigan and I worked in the adult entertainment industry so I studied their sex laws. They have an interesting deception intent law but it's not rape, it's pandering. It is a against the law to marry a women with the intent to have sex with her. Punishable as a 20 year pandering felony if I recall correctly. What a bizarre concept.




bounty44 -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 9:16:37 AM)

there is an overlapping and fuzzy area between "force" and "lack of consent" in this scenario isn't there.




Awareness -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 9:30:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
I would love to, but feminists will not shut the fuck up about rape except when it happens to a man. WD has just posed the same question TWICE but has simply reversed the genders. On the "woman as victim" thread, he got a bunch of responses saying it was rape. On this fucking thread, he has some mockery and one person saying it's maybe rape depending on how he feels about it.

Now this is surprising, given the number of times feminists here keep making claims about how much they care about men. I'd say he's done a fine job of ably demonstrating feminist hypocrisy, wouldn't you?


Stop using "feminist" like it's some kind of dirty word.
Well, it kinda IS a dirty word. The vast majority of women don't want to be associated with feminism and when you ask them what they think it means, the phrase "man-hating" comes up very quickly.

quote:

There are how many years worth of posts here? Show me one comment from any self-identified feminist on this board who has ever said rape was a 'good' thing if it happened to a man.
I'm pretty sure Janah said that at least once, but it's irrelevant. It's not about whether feminists think men being raped is "a good thing", it's about the feminist narrative that rape is a male thing. It is - quite simply - gender-based hate speech. It's an attempt to redefine men as "the other". By doing so, they can then subsequently justify the rest of their hateful anti-male creed.

quote:

In fact, there used to be a self-proclaimed feminist here that used to urge us to speak up on threads about considering the alarming rate of male on male rape during incarcerations into the figures.
Again, that merely supports the narrative that rape is a male pathology which men commit against both other men and women. And it is an abominable lie.

Do you know why men sexually assault each other in prison? We know exactly why because we've done the experiment with rats. You take a bunch of rats and you put them in a cage. As you make the cage smaller and smaller, they start biting and sexually assaulting each other. It's a psychological response. And despite knowing this, we STILL put men in small cages, KNOWING FULL WELL they will sexually assault each other as a consequence of their confinement. We do this, because our society is barbarous. There's an old saying that you can understand much about a society by how it treats its sick, its prisoners, its elderly and its dead. Well we treat our prisoners like animals AND - and this is Clinton's fault - we let corporations make a gigantic profit out of it.

quote:


Being the nice person that I am, <grin> I'm going to help you out. I have ALWAYS stated, unequivocally, that a woman absolutely can rape a man. I've even gone so far as to say **I** have the ability to do it. I could sit here half the night and explain the (at least) twelve dozen ways in which I, a 5'2" woman who looks like most people's grandmothers, could do it.
Exactly, and if you expand the definition of rape to include "made to penetrate", then men report rape at similar numbers to women. And the male perpetrators are a small percentage. Women rape at rates similar to men. They just don't get arrested and convicted for it.

quote:


Before you go swinging that club about "women don't care when a man is assaulted," you might want to take a look at the swinging Richard back yard. It's ain't pretty, the way some men treat other men. Something to think about.
I didn't say women, I said feminists. As I said earlier, only a small percentage of women are happy to be identified as feminists - and it's not so much about individuals as feminists continually promoting the narrative that rape and domestic violence are things which men do to women. They're not. They're things which human beings do to each other. Including women. It's just that women aren't held accountable for it.






Awareness -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 9:36:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
I made a point of using non gender pronouns, in my post. I used words like "individual" because I do recognize that there is a gender bias in regards to men who are violated non-consensually. So, when speaking of sexual assault in a non-specific situation (such as a hypothetical,) I try to make a point of keeping my responses nonspecific to gender.
I know. I did note that.

quote:

I did hesitate to use the word "feels", and believe it was a poor choice of wording. I chose to use it anyway, because a violation of trust is a visceral emotion and any person who was faced with such a violation would "feel" it. Not just think it was,, but feel it. Viscerally, emotionally. Male or female. Still, I should have taken the time to elaborate in my previous post, but the way WD went about presenting his original scenario came across, at first, as his standard M.O. of random WTF Shakespeare'esque hard to decipher post chardonnay post.
Well, the thing is, you're not wrong. The feminist party line is that a sexual encounter is rape if a woman "feels violated". And this feeling is allowed to be retroactive, so if you regret an encounter you had years ago, then feminist doctrine insists that you're perfectly within your rights to call it rape.

This sums up the quintessential problem with rape. It's possible for the only difference between consensual sex and rape to be how the participants feel about it. Trying to construct a framework for prevention of crime based around people's feelings is fraught with peril.




BitaTruble -> RE: Is it rape (10/30/2016 10:18:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Wicked meets woman it may happen but my cat numbers doth swell
Woman blindfolds me.
Woman rides my huge thick wanton cock of magnificence and it was splendid.
Woman take of my blindfold, and lying in a heap and panting, and full of my spunk of splendour, rosy of cheek, is her friend.

You did not consent to 2nd woman..you were raped..by the second one. I do not know what happened to the first one but could be dead in a pool of blood at the foot of the bed because the friend wanted to ride that bad boy and stabbed # one with an ice pick. Maybe #1 left the room to go order pizza delivery and was not aware.

I am unsure of the legal term for abetting a rape but I think there is one..maybe pandering but I really do not remember and don't have the time to spare to look it up. Bottom line..if you did not consent to another party then at the very least..that's a violation of consent. Lots of questions to be answered about first perp before I would slap guilty of rape though..little things like..trials and such as well.

It would be up to you on bringing any sort of charges but just because it was splendid ...it is still rape and I would encourage you to file a police report so the rapist can be held accountable to defend the charge and/or charges. Rape is rape..both men and women can have body reactions to stimulation..it is however moot as that is simply the human body reacting. Certain smells make me gag..I can't help it..it is just the reaction.










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