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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 7:32:16 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Still not able to properly distinguish the elements of the arguments I see.

so explain how you believe science can explain religion when science requires equally beleior more 'faith' than religions that believe in a supreme being?

Isnt that a bit hypocritical?

The linked article never said that science can explain religion. The point that you missed is that science can explain nature better than religion does because religion dwells on iron age images that are immutable and fail in the modern world. Religious Faith depends on accepting things without empirical evidence. Religious Faith becomes Dogma. Faith in scientific findings is always subject to change that gives way to new observations. Confirmation bias supports religion. Science seeks to avoid confirmation bias. Faith in scientific concepts is ephemeral. Hope that helps.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 7:52:14 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

people are philosophically handicapped today and have no clue that atheism is also a religion. They go to any extreme to claim an exemption because they cannot fathom the depths, and mere look at the surface to find the word religion and mindlessly proclaim religion must be the enemy.

Atheism is a religion? Tis a relatively recent canard proclaimed by religious people who think for some strange reason they are triumphant by drawing parallels between non-belief and belief. It is really nonsensical. It does not rise above the level of two playground kids calling each other "dorks"

Investigations into quantum physics go far deeper into "being" than exploring the "mystery" of the Trinity or the "magic" of transubstantiation. Admit it, those theological tidbits are not open for investigation.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 8:05:18 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm amazed you would believe your post considering the influence of religion in the recent US elections.

Butch

The linked article cited a a quantitative trend. You would have to show the numbers are false to deny the trend.

I am not sure that the influence of religion was so strong in the recent election as was Clinton's failure to address working class white males.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 8:31:07 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		The inked article had no references...why should I take those numbers as gospel? However I do believe there is a decline in organized religions... but not in spirituality. Of course this is just my opinion with no studies to back it up.

Butch

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 8:35:02 PM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
people are philosophically handicapped today and have no clue that atheism is also a religion.


What is up with the RWNJs constantly making bold statements like this, coupling them with insults and not even attempting to back them up?


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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 8:53:17 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I believe that most people have an innate spirituality born from our logical minds. It is our way of trying to explain the impossible... the reality of magic that had to occur for the universe to be created from nothing at the beginning... or if not a beginning then time without beginning. This fact can never be explained by science but it can be imagined spiritually.

As long as our species exists this spirituality will continue to manifest itself in each new generation. I'm not sure if we are blessed or cursed to be able to contemplate eternity... Life would be much simpler if we didn't look to the stars for the explanation of us.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/3/2017 9:08:11 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:02:29 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe that most people have an innate spirituality born from our logical minds. It is our way of trying to explain the impossible... the reality of magic that had to occur for the universe to be created from nothing at the beginning... or if not a beginning then time without beginning. This fact can never be explained by science but it can be imagined spiritually.

Butch


Your mind is not you but yours. The *yours* is where spirituality comes from, not from the mind.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:22:24 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe that most people have an innate spirituality born from our logical minds. It is our way of trying to explain the impossible... the reality of magic that had to occur for the universe to be created from nothing at the beginning... or if not a beginning then time without beginning. This fact can never be explained by science but it can be imagined spiritually.

As long as our species exists this spirituality will continue to manifest itself in each new generation. I'm not sure if we are blessed or cursed to be able to contemplate eternity... Life would be much simpler if we didn't look to the stars for the explanation of us.

Butch

I feel that the point of religion is not about contemplating eternity. But about contemplating the purpose of our existence. Also why we exist? How we exist? The Big Bang Theory, still doesn't explain what happens before the Big Bang? That's the problem.

Big Bang Theory is almost like magic too. Big Bang happens to a Universe of nothingness. And boom! Life happens.

Because it's such a unsatisfactory explanation to alot of unanswered questions. Religions will always be there to fill the gap.

And for someone like me. I believe we could possibly be created by another being. Possible an "Alien", some people refer to as God. But I will still question who created God, who made him, how he came to be? What is his Origin Story?

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/3/2017 9:24:33 PM >

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:34:30 PM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Because it's such a unsatisfactory explanation to alot of unanswered questions. Religions will always be there to fill the gap.


It's usually better to just admit that you don't know something than to invent answers out of ignorance.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:38:26 PM   
dcnovice


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Looking for something unrelated, I came across what seemed an apt observation.

“It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion--its message becomes meaningless.”

Abraham Joshua Heschel, God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:40:02 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Yes...as we step back with our logic it soon becomes evident that our minds will never be able to understand completely the reality we exist in and how it began. Our minds require a beginning and before that beginning there could only be nothing and that fact is beyond and will always beyond our comprehension.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:41:16 PM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Looking for something unrelated, I came across what seemed an apt observation.

“It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion--its message becomes meaningless.”

Abraham Joshua Heschel, God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism


This is pretty much it, yes.

It stopped being about anything spiritual and devolved into politics, fear and judgment.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:42:16 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Thank you for that dc... so true.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/3/2017 9:56:25 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
It's usually better to just admit that you don't know something than to invent answers out of ignorance.

Religion isn't created out of Ignorance.
Religion is created by people who knows precisely what they are doing.

It's all well thought out of, designed to fill the gaps, with the intention to wield power and control over other humans, and get rich schemes too.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/4/2017 1:00:53 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Looking for something unrelated, I came across what seemed an apt observation.

“It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion--its message becomes meaningless.”

Abraham Joshua Heschel, God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism



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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/4/2017 5:06:00 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The linked article never said that science can explain religion.

It doesn't, but some of BF Skinner's research with pigeons does seem to have some bearing on the cultivation of unsubstantiated, unprovable and often irrational beliefs.


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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/4/2017 6:08:00 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Looking for something unrelated, I came across what seemed an apt observation.

“It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion--its message becomes meaningless.”

Abraham Joshua Heschel, God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism





it is and it isn't.

I can agree with its theme in essence, but on its own, its merely a statement that indicts the church or believers in general without any evidence of how its specifically related to the decline of church involvement.

in fact, worthy as they are, the quote isnt much more than a modern day iteration of Jesus' criticisms of the Pharisees.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 1/4/2017 6:09:57 AM >

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/4/2017 6:29:51 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Nothing changes and nothing is affected, Jesus has a plan they say as the child dies of cancer. One of two things is true, heaven and earth don't care, or religion is still the feebleminded crutch of factless horseshit.

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/4/2017 7:57:55 AM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		a companion piece:

"Gallup: Conservatives Outnumber Liberals in America"

quote:

The number of Americans who identified as conservatives in 2016 exceeded those who identified as liberal, according to Gallup—although the margin between the two is narrowing.

In 2016, 36 percent of adults in the U.S. said they are conservative compared to 25 percent who said they are liberal. In comparison, however, the 11-point difference is half of what it was in 1996 at its peak.



quote:

More Americans continue to label themselves as conservative than as moderate or liberal. However, the liberal percentage has been growing, mainly at the expense of moderates. The Democratic focus of this change represents a hardening of political polarization between the two major parties. With most Republicans already identifying as conservative and more Democrats identifying as liberal, the parties are moving further apart ideologically.

The most obvious implication of this after the 2016 election is that the parties may increasingly nominate candidates who are wholly unacceptable to the opposing party. Additionally, it may be affecting the ideological bent of Americans' representatives in Congress and the pressure these leaders face from their constituents to adhere to conservative versus liberal orthodoxy.

On the other hand, if the term "liberal" is simply growing in public acceptance, the shift could be more a matter of semantics than a paradigm change. People who once opted for the word "moderate" may be more willing to call themselves "liberal" even if their views on the issues are the same. However, with major changes over the past two decades in Americans' acceptance of gay marriage, support for legalized marijuana and growing opposition to the death penalty, at least some of the shift in labeling appears to be rooted in changing perspectives.




http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2017/01/04/gallup-conservatives-outnumber-liberals-in-america-n2266776

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RE: The Long Slow Death of Religion - 1/4/2017 8:11:35 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I dont think you understand the article....


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