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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Forget the fact that he is a total knob - that just hides all the more worrying stuff.

I don't like Donald Trump because he is a xenophobic nationalist who is starting a huge moral panic about reds under the bed, who is profoundly anti-democratic in the way he treats the press and because of the frightening undertones of dictatorship.

Anyone holding contrary views to him is labelled as "establishment", "anti-American", "leftist" and the impression is constantly given that there is some kind of anti-democratic move to undermine him.

This is how dictatorships begin - with those in power convincing everyone else that there are shady forces trying to undermine the state. Enemies are found and scapegoated. There was no rational reason to ban people entering the US from those mainly Muslim states. America's security was not being undermined by those people. But it did get lots of people feeling good about defending the American way of life.

Democracy is about allowing dissenting voices, the fact that public opinion changes, the right to vote and vote and vote again on issues. Unfortunately it is becoming about sucking it up if you disagree. Does that really sound like democracy?

In the UK at the moment being anti-Brexit is becoming somehow anti-British and people are being told to shut up and put up. All of a sudden holding a contrary view to "the settled will of the British people" means you have to be silenced. It's just people who don't hold your views. Surely we are big enough to deal with that.

Trump is making those who oppose him into enemies of the state and enemies of the Trump revolution.

We've all heard that kind of language before. It is the language of the 20th century dictators all around the world - many of whom came to power on a wave of "public" sentiment.

Trump represents a minority of the American people. You would have been forgiven for believing that he came to power with 70% of the vote, not well under 50%.

Forget the pot-belly. Forget the comedy hairstyle. Forget the fact that he is sexist, racist and obnoxious (no matter how distasteful those things are).

The man is a thug. He was a thug in business. Now he is a thug as president.

God help the United States of America. I hope the Constitution protects the majority who wanted nothing to do with this dangerous man.

You really need to pay attention, it is his opponents who are are pushing the red scare. For example the same people who told us that Hillary's private server was in no danger of being hacked, now assure us that the same people who couldn't hack it for governments did so to decide the election.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If you think all this is about Hilary, you have a lot of catching up to do.

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ORIGINAL: femalebornslave

He seems like a very decent guy to me and he is far more open than any prior President.

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This is how dictatorships begin - with those in power convincing everyone else that there are shady forces trying to undermine the state. Enemies are found and scapegoated. There was no rational reason to ban people entering the US from those mainly Muslim states. America's security was not being undermined by those people. But it did get lots of people feeling good about defending the American way of life.

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Democracy is about allowing dissenting voices, the fact that public opinion changes, the right to vote and vote and vote again on issues. Unfortunately it is becoming about sucking it up if you disagree. Does that really sound like democracy?

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In the UK at the moment being anti-Brexit is becoming somehow anti-British and people are being told to shut up and put up. All of a sudden holding a contrary view to "the settled will of the British people" means you have to be silenced. It's just people who don't hold your views. Surely we are big enough to deal with that.

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Trump is making those who oppose him into enemies of the state and enemies of the Trump revolution.

We've all heard that kind of language before. It is the language of the 20th century dictators all around the world - many of whom came to power on a wave of "public" sentiment.

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Trump represents a minority of the American people. You would have been forgiven for believing that he came to power with 70% of the vote, not well under 50%.

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Forget the pot-belly. Forget the comedy hairstyle. Forget the fact that he is sexist, racist and obnoxious (no matter how distasteful those things are).

The man is a thug. He was a thug in business. Now he is a thug as president.

God help the United States of America. I hope the Constitution protects the majority who wanted nothing to do with this dangerous man.

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan
Look up how most major dictatorships have been established...
Trump is no more on his way to being a dictator then a dog is being elected into Office.

Dictatorships almost predominantly rise from the people whom hold themselves as intelligent, educated, and successful. Rights are taken away, laws introduced and enforced, people are oppressed to protect select groups of people which are valued higher above all else. In fact, most Dictatorships spawn from Socialistic Ideals. The Nazi part was originally called the Nationalist Socialist Party.

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan
Truthfully - we are more likely to see a Dictatorship spawn from the Progressive Left, as they are willing to sacrifice freedoms in order to protect those they feel are being oppressed. Forcing bakers, florist, private business owners to go against their religious beliefs because of 'equality'; Violently protesting and rioting properly sanctioned events because it can be offensive; claiming people xenophobic, racist, or anti-democratic because they hold views that differ from their own...

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Democracy is giving people the chance to vote - not the right to dissent if your vote loses...
Sucking it up if you lose is literally what Democracy has been in America for the past 200 years.

Free Speech is what allows us the chance to voice our concerns and change public opinion... not Democracy.

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And? You of all people should be afraid of the popular vote... There are more 'white entitled cis gender xenophobic racists' then there are progressive liberals. In short, the Electoral College was designed specifically to prevent any single popular movement from dominating an election through intimation and charisma.

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Neither choice was a good one.
But better a thug that strives to be popular then a criminal that strives to be powerful.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Whose sock are you? Your account seems to have materialised a few days with little or no additional information given on your profile.

You sound like Sanity on Valium, which is infinitely preferable to the standard rabid version but Sanity you prolly ain't .... knowing the sub-Continental origins of the term 'thug' is a few pay grades above Sanity's level.

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ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

WTF you actually believe this shit???

The Nazis were populists who appealed to farmers and common people, and who despised intellectuals. Their appeal was that they were NOT seen as elites or members of the corrupt and weak Weimar government. It has nothing AT ALL to due with intelligence, education or success... their elitism drew from patriotism, nationalism and racism-- EXACTLY what Trump is currently tapping into.

The difference between Trump and Hitler is that Hitler considered himself a visionary leader, while Trump is a buffoon with no real ideas of his own-- he just wants to be popular and says whatever gets the biggest reaction from his followers. Of course, Bannon is the one who is really in charge anyways.

The Nazis HATED the left... what is it with you right wingers getting hung up on the fact that they called themselves National Socialists? It's a meaningless title... they weren't left-wing in any way.

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The Berkeley violence wasn't from the left-- it was a group of anarchists-- ie: people who support an extremely small government.

And you're falling into the same contradiction where you think people should be able to say whatever they want, and yet the protestors should just shut up and do what you want them to do. Some views ARE xenophobic, racist, and anti-democratic... so we're just supposed to pretend they aren't? That doesn't make any sense.

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So why are you against the protestors?
Or are you just pretending that all of them were violent?

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

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ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

WTF you actually believe this shit???

The Nazis were populists who appealed to farmers and common people, and who despised intellectuals. Their appeal was that they were NOT seen as elites or members of the corrupt and weak Weimar government. It has nothing AT ALL to due with intelligence, education or success... their elitism drew from patriotism, nationalism and racism-- EXACTLY what Trump is currently tapping into.

The difference between Trump and Hitler is that Hitler considered himself a visionary leader, while Trump is a buffoon with no real ideas of his own-- he just wants to be popular and says whatever gets the biggest reaction from his followers. Of course, Bannon is the one who is really in charge anyways.

The Nazis HATED the left... what is it with you right wingers getting hung up on the fact that they called themselves National Socialists? It's a meaningless title... they weren't left-wing in any way.

This is actually an interesting discussion because the Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party was actually a Progressive Liberal movement that manipulated the middle class whom held themselves as intelligent progressive thinkers into surrendering all their power to a single individual, thus birthing fascism... but that tends to be too much of a leap for most people...
...

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

This is actually an interesting discussion because the Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party was actually a Progressive Liberal movement that manipulated the middle class whom held themselves as intelligent progressive thinkers into surrendering all their power to a single individual, thus birthing fascism... but that tends to be too much of a leap for most people...

so i invite you to look at... almost every other Dictator out there.
From Stalin to Qaddafi

The common trend that stands in place is that they all use Socialism and manipulate it so that they themselves become more powerful through it. Unless if you want to try and argue that Communist States lead by tyrannical dictatorships are 'Right Leaning' political movements - Dictators are born not from the same tapestry that spat out Trump.

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ORIGINAL: BoscoX

This line from his ridiculous post made me laugh - "Democracy is about allowing dissenting voices..."

So why do alt left rioters routinely mob conservative venues then, literally throw firebombs at buildings, and pepper spray women etc

The alt left just spent $25,000 in opposition research to shut up a gay man who said things they didn't like

You never see Donald Trump doing such things, only Democrats

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ORIGINAL: blnymph
Whoever told you that nonsense - you should make that person pay back whatever was charged for that "lesson."

The NSDAP was a revisionist, isolationist, anti-liberal, anti-socialist, ultra-nationalist "völkisch" party who profited from a general public mood of protest against the Versailles treaty and its consequences. They had party formations open for the "common man" as well as secluded elitist groups within for their "elite." The were never "progressive," maybe except in their approach to technology, but propagated a static ultra-conservative society model, they were certainly never liberal.

Was für einen Schmarrn bringen die euch eigentlich in den Schulen bei?[sm=ugh.gif]

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Forget the fact that he is a total knob - that just hides all the more worrying stuff.

I don't like Donald Trump because he is a xenophobic nationalist who is starting a huge moral panic about reds under the bed, who is profoundly anti-democratic in the way he treats the press and because of the frightening undertones of dictatorship.

Anyone holding contrary views to him is labelled as "establishment", "anti-American", "leftist" and the impression is constantly given that there is some kind of anti-democratic move to undermine him.

This is how dictatorships begin - with those in power convincing everyone else that there are shady forces trying to undermine the state. Enemies are found and scapegoated. There was no rational reason to ban people entering the US from those mainly Muslim states. America's security was not being undermined by those people. But it did get lots of people feeling good about defending the American way of life.

Democracy is about allowing dissenting voices, the fact that public opinion changes, the right to vote and vote and vote again on issues. Unfortunately it is becoming about sucking it up if you disagree. Does that really sound like democracy?

In the UK at the moment being anti-Brexit is becoming somehow anti-British and people are being told to shut up and put up. All of a sudden holding a contrary view to "the settled will of the British people" means you have to be silenced. It's just people who don't hold your views. Surely we are big enough to deal with that.

Trump is making those who oppose him into enemies of the state and enemies of the Trump revolution.

We've all heard that kind of language before. It is the language of the 20th century dictators all around the world - many of whom came to power on a wave of "public" sentiment.

Trump represents a minority of the American people. You would have been forgiven for believing that he came to power with 70% of the vote, not well under 50%.

Forget the pot-belly. Forget the comedy hairstyle. Forget the fact that he is sexist, racist and obnoxious (no matter how distasteful those things are).

The man is a thug. He was a thug in business. Now he is a thug as president.

God help the United States of America. I hope the Constitution protects the majority who wanted nothing to do with this dangerous man.

You really need to pay attention, it is his opponents who are are pushing the red scare. For example the same people who told us that Hillary's private server was in no danger of being hacked, now assure us that the same people who couldn't hack it for governments did so to decide the election.