quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

The UK does not have Free Speech.
Intentionally speaking to cause distress or dissent is prohibited in England.

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Neither choice was a good one.
But better a thug that strives to be popular then a criminal that strives to be powerful.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Forget the fact that he is a total knob - that just hides all the more worrying stuff.

I don't like Donald Trump because he is a xenophobic nationalist who is starting a huge moral panic about reds under the bed, who is profoundly anti-democratic in the way he treats the press and because of the frightening undertones of dictatorship.

Anyone holding contrary views to him is labelled as "establishment", "anti-American", "leftist" and the impression is constantly given that there is some kind of anti-democratic move to undermine him.

This is how dictatorships begin - with those in power convincing everyone else that there are shady forces trying to undermine the state. Enemies are found and scapegoated. There was no rational reason to ban people entering the US from those mainly Muslim states. America's security was not being undermined by those people. But it did get lots of people feeling good about defending the American way of life.

Democracy is about allowing dissenting voices, the fact that public opinion changes, the right to vote and vote and vote again on issues. Unfortunately it is becoming about sucking it up if you disagree. Does that really sound like democracy?

In the UK at the moment being anti-Brexit is becoming somehow anti-British and people are being told to shut up and put up. All of a sudden holding a contrary view to "the settled will of the British people" means you have to be silenced. It's just people who don't hold your views. Surely we are big enough to deal with that.

Trump is making those who oppose him into enemies of the state and enemies of the Trump revolution.

We've all heard that kind of language before. It is the language of the 20th century dictators all around the world - many of whom came to power on a wave of "public" sentiment.

Trump represents a minority of the American people. You would have been forgiven for believing that he came to power with 70% of the vote, not well under 50%.

Forget the pot-belly. Forget the comedy hairstyle. Forget the fact that he is sexist, racist and obnoxious (no matter how distasteful those things are).

The man is a thug. He was a thug in business. Now he is a thug as president.

God help the United States of America. I hope the Constitution protects the majority who wanted nothing to do with this dangerous man.

You really need to pay attention, it is his opponents who are are pushing the red scare. For example the same people who told us that Hillary's private server was in no danger of being hacked, now assure us that the same people who couldn't hack it for governments did so to decide the election.

This is not about Clinton. That's old news. It's about Trump and his Thugocracy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Forget the fact that he is a total knob - that just hides all the more worrying stuff.

I don't like Donald Trump because he is a xenophobic nationalist who is starting a huge moral panic about reds under the bed, who is profoundly anti-democratic in the way he treats the press and because of the frightening undertones of dictatorship.

Anyone holding contrary views to him is labelled as "establishment", "anti-American", "leftist" and the impression is constantly given that there is some kind of anti-democratic move to undermine him.

This is how dictatorships begin - with those in power convincing everyone else that there are shady forces trying to undermine the state. Enemies are found and scapegoated. There was no rational reason to ban people entering the US from those mainly Muslim states. America's security was not being undermined by those people. But it did get lots of people feeling good about defending the American way of life.

Democracy is about allowing dissenting voices, the fact that public opinion changes, the right to vote and vote and vote again on issues. Unfortunately it is becoming about sucking it up if you disagree. Does that really sound like democracy?

In the UK at the moment being anti-Brexit is becoming somehow anti-British and people are being told to shut up and put up. All of a sudden holding a contrary view to "the settled will of the British people" means you have to be silenced. It's just people who don't hold your views. Surely we are big enough to deal with that.

Trump is making those who oppose him into enemies of the state and enemies of the Trump revolution.

We've all heard that kind of language before. It is the language of the 20th century dictators all around the world - many of whom came to power on a wave of "public" sentiment.

Trump represents a minority of the American people. You would have been forgiven for believing that he came to power with 70% of the vote, not well under 50%.

Forget the pot-belly. Forget the comedy hairstyle. Forget the fact that he is sexist, racist and obnoxious (no matter how distasteful those things are).

The man is a thug. He was a thug in business. Now he is a thug as president.

God help the United States of America. I hope the Constitution protects the majority who wanted nothing to do with this dangerous man.

You really need to pay attention, it is his opponents who are are pushing the red scare. For example the same people who told us that Hillary's private server was in no danger of being hacked, now assure us that the same people who couldn't hack it for governments did so to decide the election.

This is not about Clinton. That's old news. It's about Trump and his Thugocracy.

You clearly didn't get the point. It is the left, not Trump pushing the "RED Scare" they claimed the Russians were harmless when one of theirs was stupidly careless (I would say criminally) but now a unsupported criminally released possibility that they may have done something that a 12 year old could have done and they assume that this proves that Trump is a Russian agent. This is nothing more than a temper tantrum by the left because their chosen one was rejected so yes Hillary is part of this conversation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quislingslayer

For me it was his admitted, multiple sexual assaults and his bragging about being able to get away with those assaults.

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ORIGINAL: Quislingslayer

For me it was his admitted, multiple sexual assaults and his bragging about being able to get away with those assaults.


As Megan Kelly asked, "why shouldn`t we take trump at his word ?",referring to the tape trumps own recorded words.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You clearly didn't get the point. It is the left, not Trump pushing the "RED Scare" they claimed the Russians were harmless when one of theirs was stupidly careless (I would say criminally) but now a unsupported criminally released possibility that they may have done something that a 12 year old could have done and they assume that this proves that Trump is a Russian agent. This is nothing more than a temper tantrum by the left because their chosen one was rejected so yes Hillary is part of this conversation.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You clearly didn't get the point. It is the left, not Trump pushing the "RED Scare" they claimed the Russians were harmless when one of theirs was stupidly careless (I would say criminally) but now a unsupported criminally released possibility that they may have done something that a 12 year old could have done and they assume that this proves that Trump is a Russian agent. This is nothing more than a temper tantrum by the left because their chosen one was rejected so yes Hillary is part of this conversation.

No, Hilary is part of your conversation about how the left are so mistaken about the hacking question and Trump is a stand up guy, just doing his best against the lunacy of the left.

The OP is "Why do people not like Donald Trump?".

For many people that has nothing to do with hacking, whether Trump is a secret Russian agent or how good a president Hilary would have been.

Trump is a dangerous thug all on his own, whether or not he is paid by the Russians, has saved the US from Hilary or how he won the election.

I'm not having a temper tantrum because he beat Hilary in the electoral college. I don't like him because he was an unethical thug in business, and now he's an unethical political thug.

His credentials stand up all on their own, without reference to (your obsession with) Hilary.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Just a quick thought for InfoMan.

By promulgating all this left/right binary about twentieth century dictatorships, you are surely missing the point. Dictatorships have had both left wing and right wing self-justifications for their rise to power. Socialism no more causes dictatorship than conservatism or libertarianism.

The commonality that was being pointed out was the populist appeal and the creation of an exaggerated threat to the party or cabal to sweep them to power or to keep them there. This threat is described as being anti-[insert state or national group of your choosing].

The Trump creation of a threat to America and his moves to oppose and remove all Democratic checks and balances to protect his "revolution" all looks worryingly like the actions of a strong man dictator, just like his best friend Putin.

The man is a thug and a dangerous one.

Hopefully the United States political system and Constitution can prevent his worst excesses both at home and abroad.

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You clearly didn't get the point. It is the left, not Trump pushing the "RED Scare" they claimed the Russians were harmless when one of theirs was stupidly careless (I would say criminally) but now a unsupported criminally released possibility that they may have done something that a 12 year old could have done and they assume that this proves that Trump is a Russian agent. This is nothing more than a temper tantrum by the left because their chosen one was rejected so yes Hillary is part of this conversation.

No, Hilary is part of your conversation about how the left are so mistaken about the hacking question and Trump is a stand up guy, just doing his best against the lunacy of the left.

The OP is "Why do people not like Donald Trump?".

For many people that has nothing to do with hacking, whether Trump is a secret Russian agent or how good a president Hilary would have been.

Trump is a dangerous thug all on his own, whether or not he is paid by the Russians, has saved the US from Hilary or how he won the election.

I'm not having a temper tantrum because he beat Hilary in the electoral college. I don't like him because he was an unethical thug in business, and now he's an unethical political thug.

His credentials stand up all on their own, without reference to (your obsession with) Hilary.

Ethics are relative.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quislingslayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Forget the fact that he is a total knob - that just hides all the more worrying stuff.

I don't like Donald Trump because he is a xenophobic nationalist who is starting a huge moral panic about reds under the bed, who is profoundly anti-democratic in the way he treats the press and because of the frightening undertones of dictatorship.

Anyone holding contrary views to him is labelled as "establishment", "anti-American", "leftist" and the impression is constantly given that there is some kind of anti-democratic move to undermine him.

This is how dictatorships begin - with those in power convincing everyone else that there are shady forces trying to undermine the state. Enemies are found and scapegoated. There was no rational reason to ban people entering the US from those mainly Muslim states. America's security was not being undermined by those people. But it did get lots of people feeling good about defending the American way of life.

Democracy is about allowing dissenting voices, the fact that public opinion changes, the right to vote and vote and vote again on issues. Unfortunately it is becoming about sucking it up if you disagree. Does that really sound like democracy?

In the UK at the moment being anti-Brexit is becoming somehow anti-British and people are being told to shut up and put up. All of a sudden holding a contrary view to "the settled will of the British people" means you have to be silenced. It's just people who don't hold your views. Surely we are big enough to deal with that.

Trump is making those who oppose him into enemies of the state and enemies of the Trump revolution.

We've all heard that kind of language before. It is the language of the 20th century dictators all around the world - many of whom came to power on a wave of "public" sentiment.

Trump represents a minority of the American people. You would have been forgiven for believing that he came to power with 70% of the vote, not well under 50%.

Forget the pot-belly. Forget the comedy hairstyle. Forget the fact that he is sexist, racist and obnoxious (no matter how distasteful those things are).

The man is a thug. He was a thug in business. Now he is a thug as president.

God help the United States of America. I hope the Constitution protects the majority who wanted nothing to do with this dangerous man.

You really need to pay attention, it is his opponents who are are pushing the red scare. For example the same people who told us that Hillary's private server was in no danger of being hacked, now assure us that the same people who couldn't hack it for governments did so to decide the election.

This is not about Clinton. That's old news. It's about Trump and his Thugocracy.

You clearly didn't get the point. It is the left, not Trump pushing the "RED Scare" they claimed the Russians were harmless when one of theirs was stupidly careless (I would say criminally) but now a unsupported criminally released possibility that they may have done something that a 12 year old could have done and they assume that this proves that Trump is a Russian agent. This is nothing more than a temper tantrum by the left because their chosen one was rejected so yes Hillary is part of this conversation.

Sorry buddy but trumps last three fake terrorist attack lies, that we made him take back, were designed to scare your side of the spectrum. That fear/hate mongering was for your consumption, not ours. Our only roll so far has been exposing trump`s BS, with his own words.

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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

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ORIGINAL: blnymph
Whoever told you that nonsense - you should make that person pay back whatever was charged for that "lesson."

The NSDAP was a revisionist, isolationist, anti-liberal, anti-socialist, ultra-nationalist "völkisch" party who profited from a general public mood of protest against the Versailles treaty and its consequences. They had party formations open for the "common man" as well as secluded elitist groups within for their "elite." The were never "progressive," maybe except in their approach to technology, but propagated a static ultra-conservative society model, they were certainly never liberal.

Was für einen Schmarrn bringen die euch eigentlich in den Schulen bei?[sm=ugh.gif]

Actually it wasn't... that is what we've come to define it today with modern language and as we have seen it from conclusion to start.

When observed from their creation they actually don't have any political leanings, as they where in the Middle, having both liberal and conservative ideals on the plate. The NSDAP was originally focused on the middle class and the Middle ground. It was seen as welcomed alternative to the Far Left Communist which scared the middle class as all their hard work and efforts would become property of the state, while at the same time opposed to the failing far-right Weimar Republic which was believed to be corrupt and interested in only keeping the autocrats and wealthy in power.

It originally pushed for social reform, Profit sharing of large companies, State funded education, All all political positions to filled through Popular election, Major businesses and trusts nationalized, and for set prices for goods and services to be enforced by the state, while at the same time calling for all immigrants to leave, speaking of nationalism, and the removal of the treaty of Versailles


If you look at the political party at this point in time and view it as only that.
It would be entitled a Progressive movement... forward thinkers and independent people.

Like i said - it is an interesting discussion.

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

I am saying that ethics are relative and the results are what matter.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

I am saying that ethics are relative and the results are what matter.

ethics has nothing to do with results, morals do.