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RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:09:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I did check the case.
I am not convinced that she is innocent.
However he disobeyed directions and tried to get something out of his vehical.
We don't know what he was after, but we do know he was on PCP so he was more dangerous than a man with a gun.
This may well have created a legitimate reasonable doubt.

Oh yeah, there are huge questions here... like why she didn't wait for some one to tazer the guy?

but ultimately there is enough there to imply that she and the other officers where in imminent danger, which does make the shooting justified. They had no idea what was in the car... he could of had a gun, he could of had a bomb, He could of leaped into the car and rolled the car back onto the lot of those officers which stupidly clumped up at the rear of the vehicle.

The only fact is that the person needed to be stopped before he did something which would of hurt people...
Why that thing wasn't a tazer is a different argument.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:15:53 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I did check the case.
I am not convinced that she is innocent.
However he disobeyed directions and tried to get something out of his vehical.
We don't know what he was after, but we do know he was on PCP so he was more dangerous than a man with a gun.
This may well have created a legitimate reasonable doubt.

Oh yeah, there are huge questions here... like why she didn't wait for some one to tazer the guy?

but ultimately there is enough there to imply that she and the other officers where in imminent danger, which does make the shooting justified. They had no idea what was in the car... he could of had a gun, he could of had a bomb, He could of leaped into the car and rolled the car back onto the lot of those officers which stupidly clumped up at the rear of the vehicle.

The only fact is that the person needed to be stopped before he did something which would of hurt people...
Why that thing wasn't a tazer is a different argument.

Does the Dept budget allow for tazers, and if not why not?
Could it be that the real problem could be underfunding of law enforcement?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:19:33 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

In the one case that is specifically identifiable he got off because when you have a case of involuntary manslaughter you can't convict for 1st degree murder. The prosecutor, in an effort to make people like you happy, grossly overcharged. The same happened in Baltimore.

good to see you agree that the outcome of the law is manipulated.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:20:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Does the Dept budget allow for tazers, and if not why not?
Could it be that the real problem could be underfunding of law enforcement?

how about could it be fucking rambos getting away with it.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:21:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yarashii1

This is my first post on any forum ever, so please bear with me if I do something strange. First, kudos to the OP for at least trying to see the problem that people in BLM are trying to address.

There have been quite a few comments listed above that I think should be responded to however sometimes I don't know when some of you are being serious or just being trolls. The police violence in the country has been out of control forever. This is nothing new at all. The only new element is that video proof of actions is easier to see. Obviously, still not enough to convict if the perpetrator is a police officer. In this specific incident, we do not have the audio to know what the exchange was so let us not assume anything. Just like the officer should not have assumed that he was going for a weapon until she had visual confirmation of a weapon or at least what would appear to be a hostile movement. We all know (or should know) the justice system is biased in the favor of law enforcement. To me, the jury of the officer's peers was simply the 3 other officers on the scene and the officers in the helicopter.

None of the other 3 officers thought it necessary to pull the trigger even after the sound of shots fired by the first officer. Additionally, the officers in the helicopter had just assumed that he was going to be tasered. Since he had never (a) made an aggressive motion, (b) moved towards the officer, or (c) brandished a weapon it seems odd that after backup arrived (move vehicles, more officers, and a helicopter) she then though she was still in so much danger she had to pull the trigger.

And that tactical retreat....I have a feeling that they were trying to get away from Officer Shelby and considering how they were going to explain this shit without them getting taken down for her anxiousness.

Just FYI....since some people are unaware of the prosecution's evidence I will give a little background. It was proved (blood spatter and video) that at no time was he reaching inside the vehicle. The door was closed and the window was closed both with blood streaks clearly on the outside. the jerking movement by the deceased was due to taser being used (police witness statement).

gubmint sanctioned murder by cop + coverup + leego dissonance.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Yarashii1)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:25:46 PM

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Joined: 2/20/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
By your numbers to be racially equal there would need to be over 2000 whites killed by cops. there being 8 times as many whites as there are blacks.

Law enforcement as a rule is being allowed to shoot first (even kill) and ask questions later.

Why are you trying to reduce this in being 'racially equal' when the distribution of crimes committed per race is not racially equal in any way?

despite having only 1/8th the standing population of the United States, blacks account for (on average) 1/4th of the crimes committed, and 50% of the homicides committed...

Honestly - the ratio of crimes committed per race tends to coincide rather closely with that % of them shot lethally by police. It's almost as if the police are shooting Bad Guys. But rather then judging these people by the content of their character - instead you are reducing them purely to the color of their skin... taking another big step away from the dream MLK spoke of on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

there ya go make a false quota! that is meaningless trash

Video shows US police shoot and kill unarmed black man
Footage released by Oklahoma police shows Terence Crutcher shot and killed by white officer while his hands are up.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/video-shows-police-shoot-kill-unarmed-black-man-160920042318546.html

we can do this all day, case after case of innocent black kids getting blasted by fucking rambo cops.

great PR for the land of the 'FREE' and all that bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kopdb1c2b1M

'Hands Up' is an entirely meaningless gesture if you don't actually surrender while holding your hands up... as the full video shows - he spent a good 20+ seconds ignoring the commands of police walking away from them directly to the driver side door of his vehicle.

There are terrorist bombers that tried to do the same thing to US check points in Afghanistan.
Hands in the air... explosives on their chest... ignoring all commands to stop.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:26:32 PM

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What was he pulled over for?

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:31:28 PM

Posts: 471
Joined: 2/20/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I did check the case.
I am not convinced that she is innocent.
However he disobeyed directions and tried to get something out of his vehical.
We don't know what he was after, but we do know he was on PCP so he was more dangerous than a man with a gun.
This may well have created a legitimate reasonable doubt.

Oh yeah, there are huge questions here... like why she didn't wait for some one to tazer the guy?

but ultimately there is enough there to imply that she and the other officers where in imminent danger, which does make the shooting justified. They had no idea what was in the car... he could of had a gun, he could of had a bomb, He could of leaped into the car and rolled the car back onto the lot of those officers which stupidly clumped up at the rear of the vehicle.

The only fact is that the person needed to be stopped before he did something which would of hurt people...
Why that thing wasn't a tazer is a different argument.

Does the Dept budget allow for tazers, and if not why not?
Could it be that the real problem could be underfunding of law enforcement?

Not every officer gets a tazer because you have to be qualified and trained to use one... What's more in order to be issued a tazer, you have to be tazed by one first... At least that is how it was a couple years back. You're supposed to have 1 Tazer for every 4 cops, and according to testimony, there was 1 cop on hand that had a tazer, and it was deployed (at roughly the same time he was shot).

Those questions are ultimately what caused this case to go to court in the first place....

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:37:57 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

What was he pulled over for?

not sure, but technically most traffic stops are illegal unless someones life was in danger by speeding or some other material matter with the vehicle.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tamaka)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:39:35 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
By your numbers to be racially equal there would need to be over 2000 whites killed by cops. there being 8 times as many whites as there are blacks.

Law enforcement as a rule is being allowed to shoot first (even kill) and ask questions later.

Why are you trying to reduce this in being 'racially equal' when the distribution of crimes committed per race is not racially equal in any way?

despite having only 1/8th the standing population of the United States, blacks account for (on average) 1/4th of the crimes committed, and 50% of the homicides committed...

Honestly - the ratio of crimes committed per race tends to coincide rather closely with that % of them shot lethally by police. It's almost as if the police are shooting Bad Guys. But rather then judging these people by the content of their character - instead you are reducing them purely to the color of their skin... taking another big step away from the dream MLK spoke of on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

there ya go make a false quota! that is meaningless trash

Video shows US police shoot and kill unarmed black man
Footage released by Oklahoma police shows Terence Crutcher shot and killed by white officer while his hands are up.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/video-shows-police-shoot-kill-unarmed-black-man-160920042318546.html

we can do this all day, case after case of innocent black kids getting blasted by fucking rambo cops.

great PR for the land of the 'FREE' and all that bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kopdb1c2b1M

'Hands Up' is an entirely meaningless gesture if you don't actually surrender while holding your hands up... as the full video shows - he spent a good 20+ seconds ignoring the commands of police walking away from them directly to the driver side door of his vehicle.

There are terrorist bombers that tried to do the same thing to US check points in Afghanistan.
Hands in the air... explosives on their chest... ignoring all commands to stop.

so you are saying FUCK DUE PROCESS da lew in its vivd imagination conjured up he might be a terroist so its kool just blast away, is that correct?

thanks for the video, the crimnal bastards back up into the cam so no one can see their faces.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/18/2017 4:41:00 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:42:37 PM

Posts: 10540
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
By your numbers to be racially equal there would need to be over 2000 whites killed by cops. there being 8 times as many whites as there are blacks.

Law enforcement as a rule is being allowed to shoot first (even kill) and ask questions later.

Why are you trying to reduce this in being 'racially equal' when the distribution of crimes committed per race is not racially equal in any way?

despite having only 1/8th the standing population of the United States, blacks account for (on average) 1/4th of the crimes committed, and 50% of the homicides committed...

Honestly - the ratio of crimes committed per race tends to coincide rather closely with that % of them shot lethally by police. It's almost as if the police are shooting Bad Guys. But rather then judging these people by the content of their character - instead you are reducing them purely to the color of their skin... taking another big step away from the dream MLK spoke of on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

So with that here which is nothing less than a profile, you seem to suggest [it] allows the police in an apparent attempt to what...'even the score'...to do basically what I've posted, shoot all of the unarmed black men they choose with no arrest, no trial and even when it clearly appears to be when on video, no threat at all really and...simply ask questions later.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:45:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

not sure, but technically most traffic stops are illegal unless someones life was in danger by speeding or some other material matter with the vehicle.

You have no idea.
That means you're here arguing just to argue.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:46:28 PM

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you realize the implied premise of your post is that the cop would not have been acquitted had the victim been white?

or alternatively, that the victim never would have been shot to begin had he been white?

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

Oh yea, just as in the Rodney King case, the jury had to see King continually going after the police as he was writhing on the ground while getting hit with police batons, more than 50 times or so at least.

A clear case of all of these police shooting unarmed (and no guns to be found) men, that their lives were in imminent danger. Sure.....let me see, one running away shot several times in the back and one in a known potentially fatal choke hold for selling untaxed cigarettes.

I mean these juries just know that these victims...er criminals, were a real threat to civil order.

In the one case that is specifically identifiable he got off because when you have a case of involuntary manslaughter you can't convict for 1st degree murder. The prosecutor, in an effort to make people like you happy, grossly overcharged. The same happened in Baltimore.

Not even a nice try at...your usual spin.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:49:42 PM

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Joined: 9/30/2014
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There are many people who insist on touting stats in regards to body counts, black on black crime, inner city violence, and the like without truly analyzing the source of the data. For my fellow fetishists reading this let us consider that I have never been arrested when there were no police around, chances are, neither have you. We break laws all the time some small like stopping your car in the middle of the street and others more severe like carrying PCP across state lines. If the cops are all on one freeway, that is where all the tickets will be written. That does not mean there is more speeding happening elsewhere. So, of course, that is where all the crime will seem to pop up.

For now, let's ignore disparities in income and class standing that MAY lead to a life more prone to illegal activity. Police are killing people. According to the Wall Street Journal's review of 105 of the nation's largest police departments, 500 of at least 1,800 police killings were missing from the FBI tally. This also does not include the counts of felony homicide where a police officer kills someone (most certainly someone in the vicinity) while trying to apprehend a fugitive. Those numbers are attributed to the fugitive (most likely someone of color). Which means (1) we do not have an accurate count of people being killed by the cops and whatever number we have is much higher than reported,(2)the Feds have documented proof killings are being underreported (3) the courts are justifying some that they probably shouldn't, and (4) studies have shown that cops are only hitting their targets with 1 of 6 rounds fired.

Summary - when cops are chasing people in neighborhoods of color, discharging their weapons in densely populated areas for non-violent misdemeanor crimes, then allowed to write off the shootings as justified or, worse yet, pin the consequences for the shooting on the person they were shooting at, what stats can you believe? As a gun owner in America, I do not need to be trained or in many states not even licensed to have the weapon but as an amateur, I am still held accountable for all of my rounds. If you were a professional driver, doctor, even reporter, you are held to a higher standard. Police are not. This is a part of the BLM movement everyone should be able to agree on.

(in reply to Yarashii1)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:50:28 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

not sure, but technically most traffic stops are illegal unless someones life was in danger by speeding or some other material matter with the vehicle.

You have no idea.
That means you're here arguing just to argue.

hardly, I am pointing out the elephant sitting at your table, that you want to ignore and expect others to ignore because you ignore it.

DUE PROCESS and this man died for what? Killing someone on the highway? 99% chance a burned out tail light.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:54:44 PM

Posts: 471
Joined: 2/20/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
By your numbers to be racially equal there would need to be over 2000 whites killed by cops. there being 8 times as many whites as there are blacks.

Law enforcement as a rule is being allowed to shoot first (even kill) and ask questions later.

Why are you trying to reduce this in being 'racially equal' when the distribution of crimes committed per race is not racially equal in any way?

despite having only 1/8th the standing population of the United States, blacks account for (on average) 1/4th of the crimes committed, and 50% of the homicides committed...

Honestly - the ratio of crimes committed per race tends to coincide rather closely with that % of them shot lethally by police. It's almost as if the police are shooting Bad Guys. But rather then judging these people by the content of their character - instead you are reducing them purely to the color of their skin... taking another big step away from the dream MLK spoke of on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

So with that here which is nothing less than a profile, you seem to suggest [it] allows the police in an apparent attempt to what...'even the score'...to do basically what I've posted, shoot all of the unarmed black men they choose with no arrest, no trial and even when it clearly appears to be when on video, no threat at all really and...simply ask questions later.

Wow, where did you get that from?

Actually i was going to go with the statement that there seems to be a direct correlation between the amount of crime committed by a race and the amount of lethal police shootings involving that race.

Whites account for ~50% of all crime.
Whites account for ~50% of all lethal police shooting.

Blacks account for ~25% of all crime.
Blacks account for ~25% of all lethal police shooting.

it would stand to reason that Criminals are the ones getting shot, and the Race Distribution of those shootings happens to coincide with how much crime that race commits.

You're the one that has been sitting here trying desperately to make it out as if race plays a pivotal role in all of this and that police are going out of their way in order to intentionally shoot blacks at an alarming rate despite that there is no proof or information to even suggest that outside of your biased opinion on the matter.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 5:02:13 PM

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It would not stand to reason given the prima facie evidence of not much criminality in getting shot.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 5:02:23 PM

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Joined: 9/30/2014
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He wasn't pulled over. When Officer Shelby arrived on the scene his car was stopped illegally in the middle of the road. From their initial contact, she may have been convinced that he was on drugs.

(in reply to tamaka)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 5:04:35 PM

Posts: 19
Joined: 9/30/2014
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The crime by race discussion does sound like I should input. Do we have a topic we are trying to stick to?

(in reply to Yarashii1)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 5:09:15 PM

Posts: 471
Joined: 2/20/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

not sure, but technically most traffic stops are illegal unless someones life was in danger by speeding or some other material matter with the vehicle.

You have no idea.
That means you're here arguing just to argue.

hardly, I am pointing out the elephant sitting at your table, that you want to ignore and expect others to ignore because you ignore it.

DUE PROCESS and this man died for what? Killing someone on the highway? 99% chance a burned out tail light.

Calls to 911 warned of an SUV abandoned on the highway blocking the road. The first came from a woman who said an abandoned vehicle was blocking the street and a man was running away, warning that it was going to blow up.

Officer Betty Shelby was the first to arrive, and encountered a large black man whom was pacing erratically on the road around the SUV. He approach the officer, and She initially asked the individual to withdraw his hands from his pockets.

He complies - but also puts his hands up in the air.
She begins to ask questions about the vehicle.
He puts his hands back in his pockets.

She draws her side arm and commands him to remove his hands from his pockets.

Again he withdraws his hands and instead puts them in the air.
He then ignores her and walks towards the vehicle.
Every command to Stop is ignored.

Several police officers also arrive on scene.

The black male gets to the door of the SUV with his hands in the air.

All police officers draw their side arm with another one drawing a tazer to incapacitate the individual.

A He continues to ignore commands.

From here the story gets conflicted.
The basic gist is that he was trying to enter his vehicle.
the video suggests he put his hand back in his pocket to retrieve keys, but conflicting reports says he tried to open the door or reach into the window (although some state that the window was not open).

At this time a fire arm is discharged and the individual is killed.

So much for a casual traffic stop or burned out tail light.

(in reply to Real0ne)

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