vincentML
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kdsub
Vince I agree with your post completely... My spirituality however goes far beyond the Bible or any other religious text and DOES include science. I know my post is a little off the subject but I am posting a link below and I hope you take the time to read it... It is short and gives no answers but it does raise some very important questions that science needs to look at. It is somewhat the basis for my belief in a universal intelligence of a sort if not along the lines of contemporary religion.
Here is an example of a question asked... think about it:
How can physical atoms and molecules, for example, create something that exists in a separate domain that has no physical existence: human consciousness?
Otherwise ...thought is real... but it has no physical existence... what and where is it then? How amazing is it that right now I can give you something that does not exist, where it can be quantified by science, but it is as real and the dirt under your feet.
And the link
http://www.newsweek.com/god-faith-religion-science-does-god-exist-existence-god-608897
Butch
From your link, Butch . . . .
As argued by scholars such as Philip Davis and Reuben Hersh, mathematics exists independent of physical reality. It is the job of mathematicians to discover the realities of this separate world of mathematical laws and concepts. Physicists then put the mathematics to use according to the rules of prediction and confirmed observation of the scientific method.
OTOH, mathematics may be a short hand method of reasoning; an equation is just scribbled nonsense unless it has physical application. x + y = z means absolutely nothing until the units are identified and quantified. It really has no existence beyond what you see on your screen.
Einstein’s 1915 general theory of relativity, for example, was based on theoretical mathematics developed 50 years earlier by the great German mathematician Bernhard Riemann that did not have any known practical applications at the time of its intellectual creation.
Perhaps Einstein used Riemann's work as a tool to develop his own equation of the general theory but in Einstein's equation each symbol stands for a physical reality, so I don't see where Riemann's mathematical system is really another reality.
As to the physical reality of thoughts . . . I don't accept your premise, Butch. From the materialist's point of view thoughts are words that exist in the brain as combinations of electrical circuits (physical) and vocal representations that translate through air to ear to electrical circuits in the listener's brain. Just like the thoughts on this PC screen have a physical reality in the electronic on/off switches of the binary program.
The workings of human consciousness are similarly miraculous. Like the laws of mathematics, consciousness has no physical presence in the world; the images and thoughts in our consciousness have no measurable dimensions.
But they do. They can be measured by EEG and fMRI down to particular neurons and circuit bundles as I understand it.
I fear this whole business of a universal consciousness is just another way to say we have a soul, but as one researcher said (name escapes me atm) "There is no ghost in the machine."
However, to each his own on religion and faith, Butch. They just don't scratch my materialistic itch. Thanks for the link. 
_____________________________
vML
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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