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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 12:48:44 PM

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one of the inherent characteristics of humanity is critical spirit of new or contemporary things and a sort of longing for the "good ol' days" where "whatever" was better in the past.

I don't believe for a moment that todays pop music is "so terrible" or that its worse by comparison to any other time period in pop music history---where its very likely some crotchety fellow was sitting around saying "why is todays pop music so terrible---why in my day...."

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 12:52:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

one of the inherent characteristics of humanity is critical spirit of new or contemporary things and a sort of longing for the "good ol' days" where "whatever" was better in the past.

I don't believe for a moment that todays pop music is "so terrible" or that its worse by comparison to any other time period in pop music history---where its very likely some crotchety fellow was sitting around saying "why is todays pop music so terrible---why in my day...."

For once, we can agree on something.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 12:55:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

Natalie Cole pretty much proved you can overdub in concert successfully.
I think the Beatles just got so busy creating that they didn't have time left for touring.
As solo artists they have all toured and managed to still include songs off Sgt. Pepper's.

It was nothing to do with creativity: every account I've seen, they were sick to death of touring, and overdubbing a string orchestra onto a song where they could have had a couple of keyboards playing the same parts to much the same effect was how they did it.
(It certainly beats Dylan's approach for taking some time off the road, which involved trashing his bike and damaging his back.)

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 1:47:39 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

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To be honest I wasn't really a Beatles fan until after I bought my first really good stereo system and realized how much actually went into their music. I only went to see them live at Shea Stadium because I find them to be a better listen at home wearing headphones or listening through really high end speakers. Despite having trained in nightclubs, the Beatles were always at their best when listening at home. It never bothered me that they didn't want to tour, the Stones were always a better stage act anyway. For that matter so was Elton John, who was at his finest on stage. My favorite stage act of all time was Nektar. Their music was okay, but they had probably the best light show ever put on. At least back in the 70s. Of course that was before anyone was using pyro effects on stage. I also liked Kraftwerk live back then because of how their first US tour was almost a non-act on stage, but produced amazing music. Emmerson, Lake and Palmer were a good stage act too, especially if you didn't really need to hear for a day or two after. Saw the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band once live, that was more stage show than music, and well worth the ticket. There were a lot of better stage acts than the Beatles, but few made more impact on music.
How many bands today will be able to release an album that contains no new music, thirty years after they broke up, and have it immediately jump to #1 on the charts and then stay there?

< Message edited by HaveRopeWillBind -- 9/19/2017 2:10:09 PM >

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 2:16:57 PM

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The music industry is in its death throes at the moment, sadly. I doubt that anybody will be releasing albums in thirty years time. (Doesn't necessarily disprove your point, mind.)
I think I've heard some Nektar: were they one of the wussy/wispy sounding prog bands (more gentle Giant or Yes than King Crimson or VDGG), or am I thinking of somebody else?

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 2:25:54 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

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Yes, musically Nektar was only so-so. They were out of Munich and were typical of early 70s Euro-bands that existed just before Disco broke. Kind of the German version of Air Supply. But they had an awesome light show. They had a light controller set up in the middle of the audience, and they considered the operator to be as much a member of the band as the musicians. Hardly worth buying their albums, but definitely worth going to see them live.
Much like I used to love the early laser shows set to the music of Pink Floyd and Emerson, Lake and Palmer that were put on at the Hayden Planetarium before almost anyone else had heard of laser shows.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 2:31:09 PM

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Cool. Of course, it might be only a small step from thinking a slightly limp band are worth seeing for the light show to somebody deciding that the on stage theatrics are more important than actually playing live. There's other ways for a band to put on a show than playing the last album and a few of the oldies people like note for note, after all...

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 2:41:59 PM

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There are a variety of reasons, though I think one has to be old enough to appreciate them all.

A) Most pop music today is derivative of pop music 30, 40, 50 and even 60 years ago. That music was derivative too, but from other genres. When the Stones wrote bluesy songs, they were introducing a large section of the population to a style of music many weren't familiar with. When romantic era bands came from the UK, their synth pop was new on this side of the pond. Even hip hop, which pervades much of today's pop, has been around for decades. Everything today is something we're already familiar with.

B) The loudness wars. Music has no dynamic range today. Regardless of how you feel about the song, listen to Gerry Rafferty's "Baker Street" and then anything on the radio made in the last decade back to back. The high end roll of from using tape is gone (good or bad depending on one's opinion) but so is the dynamic range. There are no loud parts and soft parts. Even the soft parts are loud for most modern pop records.

C) Today's lyrics largely blow. I'm not saying all songs today are bad or that all the songs from my youth were lyrical masterpieces ("Oh, Micky, you're so fine!) but most at least made a better effort in decades past. The Police sang, "You consider me the young apprentice, caught between Scylla and Charybdis". Can you imagine any song having that lyric today? Modern pop has lyrics like this gem from Katy Perry; "I got the eye of the tiger, a fighter, dancing through the fire 'cause I am the champion, and you're gonna hear me roar", which is not only retarded but references two pop/rock songs written decades ago by Survivor and Queen.

D) Not all but the majority of voices aren't unique anymore. There are definitely alternative bands that have a unique vocal sound (or sound in general) but you most likely won't hear them on anything but an alternative radio station (if we're talking radio airplay). When I was young, you could hear Michael Stipe's high tenor, Cyndi Lauper's New York accented girly voice and Anita Baker's buttery pipes on a single top 40 station. There was variety. Now almost every guy and girl manning the mic sounds somewhat indistinguishable. And finally:

E) Music used to be a soundtrack for life, now it's an accompaniment to other entertainment. Yes, there were always movie soundtracks and video didn't kill the radio star, but by and large the focus of any music (pop or otherwise) used to be the quality and ingenuity of the music first and anything else was an afterthought. That's no longer the case. Now it's an entire package. What does the band look like? Are their videos interesting like "OK GO"? Do they have a solid social media presence? What commercials or films have I heard their songs in?

People (and by "people" I mean millennials) seem to want to know what the bass player's gym socks smells like, how he or she votes and whether he or she prefers white or dark chocolate - which is a long winded way of saying that it used to be all about the music but now it's about access. We had a name for those people in my generation. They were called groupies.

For me, music that I enjoy is meant to be a soundtrack for my life. I appreciate who made it, but I don't need to have their email address or be on some list for the next coffee shop appearance they're making. The end result of this desperate need to not just enjoy music but feel like you have a connection with those who made it is that less focus is placed on the quality of the thing that should be the only focus of quality. Fleetwood Mac might spend 3-4 years in the studio getting it right. Now groups or artists crank out an album in two weeks or less. Because they need time for videos and their online portal and fan meet and greets and blah, blah blah. I'd rather they just go back to focusing on delivering good music but unfortunately, all that other shit is necessary to make a living now.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 8:03:03 PM

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Because you are not a teenager anymore.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 8:30:00 PM

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WhoreMods, once more your abhorrent lack of taste betrays your lunacy and lack of a proper education, typical of the once great Island of Britannia (much better place before the anglo saxon invasion.)

But, Rolling Stone, in their top 100 list of the best rock albums has the following:

1) Sgt Pepper's Lonely Heart Club band
2) Beach Boys Pet Sounds
3) Beatles Revolver
4) Bob Dylan Highway 61 revisted
5) Beatles Rubber Soul
6) Marvin Gaye What's Going on
7) Exile on Main Street
8) the Clash, London Calling
9) Blonde on Blonde
10) The Beatles, The White Album
source

Now, while I do not agree with their choices (I feel that Bob Seger and Bad Company should have at least one album each in the top ten) I do consider them to be a viable and reputable source.

I therefore must sentence you to be transported back in time to the HMS Victorious and given thirty lashes by a good (i.e a sadistic bastard) Royal Navy bosun in the hopes that you might learn the error of your ways.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 8:46:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Did you know Stephen Stills, Charles Manson, Harry Nilsson and David Crosby were all turned down for the Monkees?

I most definitely did not know this. I’m stupefied to see Charles Manson in that list. Peter Tork beat him out?! Life is fairly weird sometimes.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 9:31:02 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

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One of the things I really miss that modern groups never do is rock operas. There were so many of them in the late 60s and 70s.
When young people come over and I can talk them into listening to one they always want to hear more.
I'd guess few here are familiar with the musical version of Jules Verne's "War of the Worlds" that was put out by Jeff Wayne, and had Richard Burton as the narrator, and The Moody Blues singing the song "Thunderchild" about the lone cruiser to attempt to delay the Martian war machines so a steamship full of passengers could escape. You'd never hear a song about that today.
Another Jules Verne tale, "Journey to the Center of the Earth" was made into a rock opera by Rick Wakeman. (Keyboardist for Yes.)
Most people know of "Tommy" by The Who, but not many know they went back and redid the album with guest artists including Ringo Starr, Steve Winwood, Richie Havens, Rod Stewart, and Maggie Bell, and accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra. That version was the way they had originally wanted to do it, but they didn't have the funding the first time around.
Paul Williams wrote the score for "Phantom of the Paradise" (and played the Devil) which was a Brian DePalma rock re-telling of the Phantom of the Opera. (Which inspired the makeup for Kiss.) It's tongue in cheek campy, but the music goes through a number of styles and is well done. The soundtrack album holds up well. (If you've seen the movie, you've never forgotten the line, "What was that?" from Gerritt Graham.)
Of course there were the big Broadway rock operas like, "Godspell," "Jesus Christ Superstar," and "Hair." "Hamilton" has been the only thing close that has been done recently, though it was more musical than rock opera.
The last real rock opera that truly fell into the genre was by Australian Billy Thorpe, "Children of the Sun," which he improved upon in "Children of the Sun Revisited." That one got almost no notice in the US as he was changing labels just as it hit and the old label didn't promote it at all. A real shame.

BTW, if you ever want to hear one of the best produced albums ever done on vinyl, check out "Aja" by Steely Dan. Not a rock opera, just a really good example of record production made just before the shift from analog to digital. Wear good headphones.

< Message edited by HaveRopeWillBind -- 9/19/2017 9:53:37 PM >

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/19/2017 9:43:55 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Did you know Stephen Stills, Charles Manson, Harry Nilsson and David Crosby were all turned down for the Monkees?

I most definitely did not know this. I’m stupefied to see Charles Manson in that list. Peter Tork beat him out?! Life is fairly weird sometimes.

The original concept for The Monkees was to be a TV version of "A Hard Day's Night," can you imagine Charles Manson cavorting about in a field of snow?
The whole thing would have looked like a Sam Peckinpah production.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/20/2017 2:46:48 AM

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quote:

Today, far too many all sound the same. Go across the radio dial and count the oldie/classics stations compared to new pop and new pop is outnumbered.

A radio dial? What person of the younger generation is turning on the radio? That may be why. Radio stations play to their audience.

FR I used to be a big Beatles fan, even though I was a bit late for them. Huge. I knew everything there was to know about them and their music. Now? I admit it. I love a lot of the pop songs. I think they're upbeat and catchy. (The ones I listen to, anyway.) Not reeking of insight or raw talent, sure, but fun to sing along to and picks up my pace a little bit. Admirable qualities in a song. :)

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/20/2017 4:05:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

one of the inherent characteristics of humanity is critical spirit of new or contemporary things and a sort of longing for the "good ol' days" where "whatever" was better in the past.

I don't believe for a moment that todays pop music is "so terrible" or that its worse by comparison to any other time period in pop music history---where its very likely some crotchety fellow was sitting around saying "why is todays pop music so terrible---why in my day...."

But Modern Music today is basically, a guy in headphones playing with his computer infront of a whole crowd now. No live singers. No instruments. All just made up by computers! Isn't Calvin Harris the number 1 pop artist in the world now?

RIP real music and real instruments in the near future.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/20/2017 5:43:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Did you know Stephen Stills, Charles Manson, Harry Nilsson and David Crosby were all turned down for the Monkees?

I most definitely did not know this. I’m stupefied to see Charles Manson in that list. Peter Tork beat him out?! Life is fairly weird sometimes.

He started a cult because he failed as a folk musician. At one point he attached himself himself to the Beach Boys and managed to bully Dennis Wilson into recording one of his songs. These days, of course, he gets his tiresome attempts to do Dylan covered by idiot hipsters because of the Tate/LaBianca murders: Guns and Roses and NIN have both covered at least one of his songs.

Jeff, I could take Rolling Stone a lot more seriously in their appraisal of Sgt Pepper's as the best album ever if there weren't three better Beatles albums in that top ten, and if the poll hadn't been published to coincide with an expensive fiftieth anniversary edition of Sgt Pepper being reissued. Used to be a record company would just buy some advertising space instead of having half the magazine's editorial turned over to a puff piece for whatever they're reissuing...

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/20/2017 9:25:37 AM

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At best I only ever liked a handful of songs from the Beatles, Stones, Cash, Simon & Garfunkel, Bowie, even Elvis. I don’t really listen to modern pop. But all my life it has been rare for me to like more than 4 songs by the same artist. I do like a good symphonic gothic rock type din though.

Sometimes when one of my friends visits I put on the music channels and find myself skipping up and down the lot on account of them being complete pish.

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/20/2017 10:08:07 AM

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ORIGINAL: masterDrakulas
I do like a good symphonic gothic rock type din though.

You could name more than four songs by Cradle of Filth or Lacrimosa, then?

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/20/2017 10:29:51 AM

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pop music has the same limitations all music has.... there's a finite number of unique variations of pleasing beats, rhythms, vocal arrangements, and so on.

and many artists are running head long into running out of options to make their music totally one of a kind without such things a "sampling" other artists music.

even if they want to have a song with a certain "vibe" to it, if it strays too close to an older piece of music, they will get sued, ( see "Robin Thicke vs. Marvin Gaye Estate" law suit.) for royalties.

I'm pretty sure we will see more of those types of lawsuits brought up as newer artists struggle to find their own sound.

I'm sure that's why we can admire artists like Prince, who broke the mold of what pop music was like at the time he hit the airwaves... AND the movie theaters.

and for awhile, the music world wasn't centered on the east coast, the south, or the west coast.....

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RE: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? - 9/20/2017 12:13:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Did you know Stephen Stills, Charles Manson, Harry Nilsson and David Crosby were all turned down for the Monkees?

I most definitely did not know this. I’m stupefied to see Charles Manson in that list. Peter Tork beat him out?! Life is fairly weird sometimes.

The original concept for The Monkees was to be a TV version of "A Hard Day's Night," can you imagine Charles Manson cavorting about in a field of snow?
The whole thing would have looked like a Sam Peckinpah production.

I could see David Lynch of Twin Peaks having some fun with that one.

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