RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (Full Version)

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DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 12:29:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

That's the media making a decision, not the market.



So ... you believe the media (advertising dollars) doesn't affect the market?





DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 12:49:57 PM)


I gave a course, "Free Markets 101" earlier on in this thread, but let's see if I can (waste my time, again) and craft "Free Markets 102" to this specific line of discussion:

Jerry Jones owns the Dallas Cryboys. He is 1/32 owner in a larger corporation called the "NFL".

Last year, the NFL lost some money, based upon numbers from the previous year. Some estimates had it at 30%, but let's be conservative and say it was closer to 5%.

Up until two years ago, the NFL was making over 10 Billion dollars per year. Last year's numbers down by 5% would mean they "lost" $500,000,000 based upon what they normally make.

This year, the numbers seem to be going even lower than they did, last year. Certainly, that's Jones' claim.

Jones brought his complaint to the full "board" of the NFL and said: "Your inaction is causing me to lose money" (The "market" is deciding that a significant portion of them aren't buying the NFL's product). Is it due to the pathetic, unpatriotic protests? I'm thinking it is. Jerry Jones thinks it is.

We may both be wrong, but he's a partner in the corporation and he is trying to (he thinks) improve the product so that the "market" will come back to the NFL. Simple.

As far as the "media" deciding things: those businesses are seeing their advertisements are being viewed by less people and may be affecting their businesses. So, they're telling the NFL: "Either we start getting the viewer numbers you promised when we wrote the check or we're going to want a reduction in what you charged us (loss of revenue to the NFL) or we're going to advertise elsewhere (as soon as possible, but possibly not until next year, depending upon contracts)"

Then, you have directv who has exclusive rights to the Sunday Ticket (an NFL product). I KNOW sales for that are way down (I know someone who works for directv). That's $320 a year times (Let's just say) 50,000 lost subscriptions. That's $16 Million. The contract was for ten years and I don't remember that last time it was renewed. Do you think directv is going to pay the same amount for a product that's shown a down-turn? More lost revenue for the NFL (and Jerry Jones).

So, yes. The media/the market/the advertisers/the people are speaking and any good company would do what they could to improve their product.

"Free Markets 102" is now over.





Termyn8or -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 12:51:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

That's the media making a decision, not the market.



So ... you believe the media (advertising dollars) doesn't affect the market?





Not for people who like good pizza and remember good pizza from the past. Seriously, even Pizza Hut tastes like Papa, which is not good. The old recipe was unique and quite good, but we didn't go there that much because there were other good places at the time. We had it once a week which doesn't leave much room for actual shopping around. We "shopped" enough to find the good places. Though we were not rich by any stretch, we didn't care if it cost a bit extra. And ads and coupons meant nothing.

Papa Johns is not alone in this travesty, they all taste like a bad Little Caesars, at least from the chain places. Independents seem to be too damn sweet. And good pizza does not need salt.

They made a business decision to increase sales, and it didn't work. I say it is because their pizza sucks. A personal opinion but those who havve had truly good pizza will agree with me.

T^T



DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 12:55:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Not for people who like good pizza and remember good pizza from the past. Seriously, even Pizza Hut tastes like Papa, which is not good. The old recipe was unique and quite good, but we didn't go there that much because there were other good places at the time. We had it once a week which doesn't leave much room for actual shopping around. We "shopped" enough to find the good places. Though we were not rich by any stretch, we didn't care if it cost a bit extra. And ads and coupons meant nothing.

Papa Johns is not alone in this travesty, they all taste like a bad Little Caesars, at least from the chain places. Independents seem to be too damn sweet. And good pizza does not need salt.

They made a business decision to increase sales, and it didn't work. I say it is because their pizza sucks. A personal opinion but those who havve had truly good pizza will agree with me.

T^T


If only this thread were about the best tasting pizza. I'm an old Brooklyn guinea and there's no such thing as good pizza outside of NYC.

Papa Johns believes that the down-turn in numbers of the NFL is hurting their business. They may be as wrong as Jerry and I, but they have a right to raise the issue and may take their advertising dollars elsewhere. More loss of revenue for the NFL.





WhoreMods -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 12:57:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

That's the media making a decision, not the market.



So ... you believe the media (advertising dollars) doesn't affect the market?




No, I'm saying that it does, and as far as stupid trivia like this goes, the market falls to its knees and opens its mouth the second the media snaps its fingers.
Clear now?



DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 12:59:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
No, I'm saying that it does, and as far as stupid trivia like this goes, the market falls to its knees and opens its mouth the second the media snaps its fingers.
Clear now?


That's how "Free Markets" work. People make money or they stop spending it. Advertising dollars are a + investment or they are "good money after bad".

Media, therefore is PART of "free markets"

Class dismissed.





WhoreMods -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 1:02:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
No, I'm saying that it does, and as far as stupid trivia like this goes, the market falls to its knees and opens its mouth the second the media snaps its fingers.
Clear now?


That's how "Free Markets" work. People make money or they stop spending it. Advertising dollars are a + investment or they are "good money after bad".

Media, therefore is PART of "free markets"

Class dismissed.




The news media (which despite its alleged left leaning bias is behind el presidente over all this nonsense) isn't advertising.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 1:03:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
The news media (which despite its alleged left leaning bias is behind el presidente over all this nonsense) isn't advertising.


Clearly, you haven't been watching the news.

Carry on.





Lucylastic -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 1:14:48 PM)

I thought jones, goodell rift had ,more to do with ezekial elliot....



DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 1:28:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I thought jones, goodell rift had ,more to do with ezekial elliot....



I'm sure that's part of it, but 2-3 weeks ago, the NFL met and said they wouldn't be enforcing their already existing policy. Actually, they said they wouldn't "change" their policy, but they already have a policy about proper "conduct" during the presenting of the colors and the playing/singing of the National Anthem.

Around the same time, Jerry Jones put out a statement saying if players wanted to play for Dallas, they'd stand. Suggesting if they didn't stand, they wouldn't play.

At those aforementioned NFL meetings, Jones made it clear he felt he was losing money due to the NFL's feckless behavior, regarding the protests. This threat to sue the NFL would seem to have something to do with both issues.





Termyn8or -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 2:42:35 PM)

quote:

I'm an old Brooklyn guinea and there's no such thing as good pizza outside of NYC.


We have been looking in the west greater Cleveland/Parma area and it seems to be fruitless.

But you forgot about Chicago pizza. A buddy actually picked it up as it was on his truck driving route.

T^T



Termyn8or -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 2:45:55 PM)

quote:

Papa Johns believes that the down-turn in numbers of the NFL is hurting their business.


I got shit sandwiches for a buck. Toothbrushes are ten bucks.

If the shit is no good no amount of advertising can make it sell in the long term.

T^T



DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 2:52:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

Papa Johns believes that the down-turn in numbers of the NFL is hurting their business.


I got shit sandwiches for a buck. Toothbrushes are ten bucks.

If the shit is no good no amount of advertising can make it sell in the long term.

T^T


Right, but the issue is: He's seen a down-turn (according to him) so it WAS selling.

Anyway, I've had Chicago pizza. It's still crap. There was a study done, back in the '70s about why New York City pizza seemed to always be so damned good. The study found it was the water (also, frequently voted amongst the best in the country); specifically (they conjectured) it was the amount of fluoride/fluorine in the water. it made the dough better, thus making the pizza better (I despise flat pizza and I'm not a big fan of the dough-y, HUGE ends, either).

Either way, this thread STILL isn't about who's got the best pizza.





JVoV -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 8:38:01 PM)

I think the most disappointing things for the franchise has been that the taking a knee controversy has completely overshadowed what the Cowboys and Jimmy Jones himself have done to raise & contribute money towards Hurricane Harvey relief. They certainly didn't get enough 'feel good press' time from that before the Anthem thing hit. And I think that kind of stuff (the good news stuff) is what people need to see from the NFL to get viewership back to where they want it. I think it's always important to see the sports teams do community outreach whenever possible, but especially when your community is hurting like that.

I think all of this was an attack by an irresponsible Twitterer-In-Chief that had nothing to bitch about at 3am that night because Rosie O'Donnell was quietly shooting a TV show, SNL was on hiatus for the summer still, and nobody had bothered to tell him that he was President of Puerto Rico & the Virgin Islands yet. Trump made the conversation far more public than it ever should have been, purposefully sabotaging the league because they wouldn't sell his ever-bankrupting ass a team however long ago.

None of that has to do with Goodell. And there was going to be a backlash regardless of the decision he or any team would make.

Now, the 2015 Cowboys went 4W-12L, and in 2016 they couldn't win their division. So the team itself needs some work before anyone can point a finger at outside influences costing Jimmy Jones any money.

I don't watch much TV, so TV advertising doesn't impact my decisions on buying food. I do use coupons that are mailed out from time to time and I don't get any of those for Papa John's. But I tend to order pizza from Domino's because they're the only ones that will deliver to my house. If Pizza Hut has a better deal or a good rice on specialty pizzas, then I'll pick that up on the way home. And if I ever got fliers from Papa John's, I'd probably order from them too.

To my knowledge, there is currently no boycott against NFL advertisers. We aren't seeing McDonald's, Geico, or any beer or car company claiming the NFL is hurting their business. So I think it's safe to say that other factors are a bigger issue for Papa John's, but Papa & Jimmy don't want to see it that way.

If Goodell is to be replaced and when will be a matter each of the 32 team owners will vote on. And Jimmy wouldn't be raising hell if he thought he was on the winning side of that vote already.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/9/2017 9:41:15 PM)


NFL viewership was down in 2016 from 2015 numbers by an average of 1.4 million viewers per week (That's from memory from last year so it might be a bit sketchy).

This year, viewership is down an average of 2 Million per week from LAST YEAR'S NUMBERS.

So, it can fairly safely be assumed the NFL is not reaching about 3.5 Million people they used to reach.

The NFL's own revenues are down, not just due to any potentially creatively written advertising agreements, but revenues on their officially licensed swag, too. People are voting with their feet.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but up until last year, the NFL was a "blue chip" company whose popularity and revenue had been steadily increasing since their recovery from their last strike (I believe that was 30 years ago, this year 1987?)

Add to that, that it is an undisputed FACT that the NFL has seen revenues take a significant hit, the last two years with almost half of those polled saying that it is because of the protests, and you have Jerry Jones' statement holding water in any factual discussion. League revenues are down, Jerry and the other owners have a profit-sharing agreement. His bottom line has taken a hit and according to polls, a good portion of it can be traced to the protests.

It's funny, we've gone from "Papa John's sucks" to "It's not true. It's not the NFL's fault" to "The Cryboys suck". I'm willing to grant a little bit of all of that, but the numbers don't lie and you would also have to grant that a good number of people have walked away from the NFL and have blamed these protests. I know you never will. I get it. It's a shame, though.

I may start watching oval left turns and start singing Garth Brooks tunes.





Termyn8or -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/10/2017 12:13:37 AM)

quote:

Add to that, that it is an undisputed FACT that the NFL has seen revenues take a significant hit, the last two years with almost half of those polled saying that it is because of the protests, and you have ...


I expect to see alot of overpriced recreation go down. Las Vegas has been hit hard, this from some who knew someone who worked with/at the casinos. He said they got hit hard, and I think I know why.

People are finally starting to wake up. They realize they are paying a grand a month for stuff that is long gone. The DVD rentals, traking the kids to a bunch of football games. That nine channel home theater system that they listen to with two ears.

i think, at east in part, is that they are seeing what they are paying for shit and starting not to like it.

I am waiting for the movie industry to take a real hit. The theaters have been hit but that is only part of it. Their "product" is still selling overseas.

I don't think people got smarter, not at all. If so they would not be in this much debt. I think they are simply looking at the surface of the issue but are starting to see something.They see the checks they write every month and think "all this money I could have if not for all these bills".

Eventually people will maybe learn to make their own pizza. Today it is not really all that hard and it is better than what these guys are peddling. You can get pre-made, pre-shaped pizza crust at the supermarket. On that you put sauce, which can also be bought or quite simply made with canned goods and a few spices. Other things you just cut up and throw in there, peppers, onions, sausage (always fry first). Anything you want and for pennies on the dollar when you compare to what they sell.

It was differenyt when the pizza was good but the peiple paid the price because there was no choice. But literally, compared to what they're selling, almost anyone can make beter at home. I mean even if you have trouble boiling water.

And this is going to gradually kill restaurants, but that will take some time.

A good business move at th9s time woud be to try to be the best. Get off that money making recipe ad create something. It has been done.

T^T



Danemora -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/10/2017 1:02:35 AM)

~FRing it~

Meh, being forced to watch football violates the Geneva Convention against torture. So let's raise a shitty slab of "pizza" to what is a bloody boring sport of dudes playing David Cop-A-Feel ๐Ÿ˜‰



Termyn8or -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/10/2017 1:30:40 AM)

Dane, baseball and basketball are worse. At least I think so.

T^T



DaddySatyr -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/10/2017 2:37:39 AM)


Well, this is going to take some doing ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

Add to that, that it is an undisputed FACT that the NFL has seen revenues take a significant hit, the last two years with almost half of those polled saying that it is because of the protests, and you have ...


I expect to see alot of overpriced recreation go down. Las Vegas has been hit hard, this from some who knew someone who worked with/at the casinos. He said they got hit hard, and I think I know why.


Las Vegas has definitely taken a hit, over the last couple of years. Their "What Happens in Vegas ..." campaign has become a caricature of sorts. I've seen so many jokes, using that as "punchline".

Anyway, I think you're comparing apples to oranges because when you peel away all the layers of this onion, what's at the core is gambling. Ya know, the activity where the odds always favor the house? The "sucker's bet"? I've never been much for gambling. In fact, I've always seen it as a waste of money. Maybe, just maybe after eight years of an almost stagnant economy people don't have the disposable income they used to have? No. That can't be it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
People are finally starting to wake up. They realize they are paying a grand a month for stuff that is long gone. The DVD rentals, traking the kids to a bunch of football games. That nine channel home theater system that they listen to with two ears.

i think, at east in part, is that they are seeing what they are paying for shit and starting not to like it.


I guess you could be right, here, but I would think that a lack of disposable income might be the culprit (at least, partially) here, also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I am waiting for the movie industry to take a real hit. The theaters have been hit but that is only part of it. Their "product" is still selling overseas.


The movie industry has already taken a hit, also. The theaters' downfall was the "no smoking" edict. That's where their fortunes started to turn. I was at my biggest "Movie freak" stage when I could go into a theater with a HUGE screen and a great sound system and lose myself for three hours. That is no longer to be because I like to smoke while I'm watching a movie, which means no big screen and no sound system.

Add to that Hollweird has exactly been falling over themselves for new material. How many movies do we see that are based on failed 60s and 70s TV shows? How many times are they going to "reboot" movies and cover the same ground they just did a few years ago (Batman, Superman, Spiderman, X-Men, anybody)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I don't think people got smarter, not at all. If so they would not be in this much debt. I think they are simply looking at the surface of the issue but are starting to see something.They see the checks they write every month and think "all this money I could have if not for all these bills".


I'm not in debt. I haven't been in over 20 years. I may not be typical, but I'll bet you 5ยข I ain't alone.

I think "wasted money" is a matter of how well people are doing, financially. One of the metrics they use to compute consumer confidence is they look at how much disposable income people have. Less disposable income, the more likely people will be to "tighten their belts".

Other than that, I don't think you're re-inventing the wheel, yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Eventually people will maybe learn to make their own pizza. Today it is not really all that hard and it is better than what these guys are peddling. You can get pre-made, pre-shaped pizza crust at the supermarket. On that you put sauce, which can also be bought or quite simply made with canned goods and a few spices. Other things you just cut up and throw in there, peppers, onions, sausage (always fry first). Anything you want and for pennies on the dollar when you compare to what they sell.


Okay. I'm convinced you have a pizza fetish/issue with pizza chains. I'm so glad you explained how to make a delicious pizza. Frankly, I don't think a decent one can be made if a brick oven isn't involved so ... I'll just say: "Your pizza recipe is amazing" and nod my head, like I mean it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
It was differenyt when the pizza was good but the peiple paid the price because there was no choice. But literally, compared to what they're selling, almost anyone can make beter at home. I mean even if you have trouble boiling water.


Some people don't like to cook. That's why pizza chains and fast food in general have become a part of the fabric of American life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
A good business move at th9s time woud be to try to be the best. Get off that money making recipe ad create something. It has been done.

T^T


Actually, "trying to be the best" is ALWAYS a good business move. ALWAYS. It's called competition.

"Get off that money making recipe ..." Are you suggesting when something is making you money, you should stop doing it?

I apologize. I think I might really have triggered you by mentioning pizza. Clearly, it's a subject for you.





Termyn8or -> RE: Papa John's Loses Dough (11/10/2017 4:00:56 AM)

quote:

Anyway, I think you're comparing apples to oranges because when you peel away all the layers of this onion, what's at the core is gambling. Ya know, the activity where the odds always favor the house? The "sucker's bet"?


I know about gambling. It is a problem for some but I have learned to do it right. Don't get into a poker game with me. (and I mean real poker, jacks or better, not this holdem shit). I can also handle the track.

quote:

because I like to smoke while I'm watching a movie, which means no big screen and no sound system.


I also like to be at home. for that I can give up the Dolby licensed sound and all that. But I can do my own snacks and so forth, and smoke and drink at will, though I have to go out to the garage these days to smoke mother nature.

quote:

Add to that Hollweird has exactly been falling over themselves for new material.


You can say that again.

quote:

"Get off that money making recipe ..." Are you suggesting when something is making you money, you should stop doing it?


If you were manufacturing cars that should cost $20,000 but people are paying $40,000, great. But sooner or later that gravy train reaches the caboose and you are done.

quote:

I apologize. I think I might really have triggered you by mentioning pizza. Clearly, it's a subject for you.


Not my only hot button yo say the least. But then I think that when the subject is the trying to sell you something, the quality of that something is definitely an issue. In that context I believe my comments are on topic.

T^T



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