RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question

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RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 11/30/2017 9:24:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

I guess I'm just destined to always play the "devil's advocate" in these forms and yes, there is a strong possibility that there is more to this than meets the eye but I also know people who have no one to talk to and when they find someone that will listen they go overboard.

Yes, but forcing somebody who's worried that if they refuse to talk to you (like every bugger else does) then they'll get fired still seems to be what pantera would call a vulgar display of power, regardless of how sorry he feels for himself.

quote:

Also even though this seems to be the era of sexual harassment and although the woman involved feels harassed, from what has been so far described this is not yet sexual harassment.

First you entrap by forcing your victim into a state of unwanted and unearned complicity through (in this case) love bombing and mindgames: then you start abusing, when you've worn away your victim's ability to say no and massively reduced the likelihood that she'll go to the authorities about it.
It's called "grooming" when it's done to somebody underaged...

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Milesnmiles)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 11/30/2017 5:11:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

I guess I'm just destined to always play the "devil's advocate" in these forms and yes, there is a strong possibility that there is more to this than meets the eye but I also know people who have no one to talk to and when they find someone that will listen they go overboard.

Also even though this seems to be the era of sexual harassment and although the woman involved feels harassed, from what has been so far described this is not yet sexual harassment.

I asked him point blank, how is it professional behaviour if you are talking to your employee as if she was your girlfriend?

And he said that it's his way of staff retention. Getting to know his employees in and out and building trust and a close relationship so they would want to stay even if someone else offer them a higher salary.

(While he doesn't endlessly text his male employees, but one thing is true is, he will listen to their personal problems as well, and want to help them out if he could and have helped.)

I am conflicted if he is harassing her because he is really a nice person. And I don't ever see him doing anything like those guys accused of real sexual harassment does, lock her up in office and flash her, or even physically touching her ever. And the conversation will never go into sexual areas. Unless she initiated it.

(in reply to Milesnmiles)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 11/30/2017 9:01:27 PM

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Your concern about the situation sounds well placed.

He is creating a sense of obligation when he is in a position of power and that can easily be construed as harassment.

A sensitive human being would recognise the discomfort he was causing and a good manager would avoid putting himself and his employees into a position where they felt singled out or obliged to engage in one-to-one out-of-work social interaction.

Even if he is just the kindest man in the world singling this woman out is naive at best and creepy at worst. He might claim that none of his other staff need to have their mother's medical bills or dinner paid fore but, if accused of sexual harassment, how would he demonstrate that he was doing the same with his male employees?

If she was happy with the situation, enjoyed the fact that it made her feel special and was actively seeking friendship or more then it would be okay, but that's not how it looks.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 11/30/2017 10:10:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

I guess I'm just destined to always play the "devil's advocate" in these forms and yes, there is a strong possibility that there is more to this than meets the eye but I also know people who have no one to talk to and when they find someone that will listen they go overboard.

Also even though this seems to be the era of sexual harassment and although the woman involved feels harassed, from what has been so far described this is not yet sexual harassment.

I asked him point blank, how is it professional behaviour if you are talking to your employee as if she was your girlfriend?

And he said that it's his way of staff retention. Getting to know his employees in and out and building trust and a close relationship so they would want to stay even if someone else offer them a higher salary.

(While he doesn't endlessly text his male employees, but one thing is true is, he will listen to their personal problems as well, and want to help them out if he could and have helped.)

I am conflicted if he is harassing her because he is really a nice person. And I don't ever see him doing anything like those guys accused of real sexual harassment does, lock her up in office and flash her, or even physically touching her ever. And the conversation will never go into sexual areas. Unless she initiated it.

It is harassment if she perceives it as harassment. If she feels like she is being harassed, then she is.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/1/2017 2:55:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
It is harassment if she perceives it as harassment. If she feels like she is being harassed, then she is.

I don't really know how she feels about it, as she'll be polite and nice as he is the boss.

(in reply to tamaka)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/1/2017 7:11:15 AM

CaptR

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It's referred to as "Grooming." Pedophiles, sex traffuckers and other sexual predators have it honed to perfection. I won't say there aren't nice people in the world, this man may be one but... When a man expends that much energy it's not far fetched to think he's expecting a return on his effort.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/3/2017 7:21:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

It's referred to as "Grooming." Pedophiles, sex traffuckers and other sexual predators have it honed to perfection. I won't say there aren't nice people in the world, this man may be one but... When a man expends that much energy it's not far fetched to think he's expecting a return on his effort.

The "return" he expects on the energy he expended was staff loyalty, staff retention was his explanation.

(in reply to CaptR)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/3/2017 7:27:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

It's referred to as "Grooming." Pedophiles, sex traffuckers and other sexual predators have it honed to perfection. I won't say there aren't nice people in the world, this man may be one but... When a man expends that much energy it's not far fetched to think he's expecting a return on his effort.

The "return" he expects on the energy he expended was staff loyalty, staff retention was his explanation.

Most employers try to do that paying better rather than stalking their staff.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/3/2017 9:07:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

But the big point is, she might feel obligated to cooperate because she doesn't want to lose her job and the competition is huge in Asia for jobs. Most are desperate for one and also Asian employees are generally subservient. So she may never voice it.

I guess there is no way I can point blank say this to him without sounding like I am judging him.

I’ve experienced something similar and it makes the environment very challenging for all involved. I entered a company with zero experience in the industry. My background is in finance. I obtained my manager’s favor and was accorded special projects to increase my visibility. Her direct report was both her best friend and the division head. She shared the same opinion. It was a very comfortable arrangement.

But when the reorganization took place and the senior C-level person (from the parent company) came in everything changed. My boss left and they cleaned out the C-suite save legal. He took over our department and became very interested in my development. I was given carte blanche in my assignments and placed on special teams to represent the company for new initiatives in policy, privacy, and technology. I’d already been promoted six-months within the job but the disparity was very glaring at this point.

We both worked late and one evening I entered his office with a question and found him seated at his desk with his shirt unbuttoned with the chest air visible to the eye. He made no attempt to collect himself and conducted our discussion as if nothing was amiss. At a certain point he stated that I should permit him to mold me and I would go very far in the company. He felt I had lots of potential. We were the lone ones in the office and I ended the discussion shortly after.

He was not as direct as your friend’s boss. His conversation shifted to personal matters involving his ex-wife, adult daughter, and life back at home. He was very unapproachable for most but had a relaxed nature when he spoke with me. We had a lot in common. But he had other things in mind and began making suggestions about my openness to relocation. It was his intention to move my job to his office and have me work directly for him. He brought in his office manager for one week to ascertain my fit and she concurred.

Given his position there was no way to avoid him in the structure. There were no threats or overt suggestions and he accommodated me immensely. I was well paid and received additional compensation for the late hours I kept and worked from home two days per week for 2 hours total. I was pulled into every meeting of importance and given prominence well beyond my coworkers. Some began to wonder. His bias was so pronounced he made no attempt to hide it. But given my youth and history of similar conditions with other employers I didn’t see the picture completely until a close friend helped.

She pointed out his interest and shared her impressions and the comments her manager had made. I was reminded of the difference in culture from whence I came where overachievement is expected and rewarded. But the same tenacity was not expected there. However, I do believe he valued it nonetheless.

He was fifteen years my senior and we got along well. But I declined the offer to relocate believing it would be problematic in the long run. I don’t think his intentions were nefarious. In hindsight I can see the dominance and control he exhibited. Perhaps he saw something in me as well. I don’t know. But I don’t believe it was the appropriate setting for its exploration.

I never felt harassed or believed my job was in jeopardy. If anything I would have had it much easier had I agreed. I don’t know if your friend feels the same. But at some point the evidence becomes too glaring to ignore and your instincts tell you there’s more than meets the eye. In these instances we’re best served by listening to our gut.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/3/2017 10:56:00 AM

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Yea, he told me, he was gonna groom her to be his star saleswoman. He basically thinks the world of her at the moment. In many ways, since he is gonna be her mentor to groom her, they will be working closely together. I also thought he was impressed with silly stuffs that I felt her skills were normal for women in my region and it's almost like something most women have. Multiple Chinese languages for example which is not unique and quite common, she's Chinese after all and most Chinese women can speak 3 different Chinese languages including me. And Engineering degree? Like seriously, if he goes into Engineering over here, it's basically filled with women, and technically over here, it's a walk of shame to get into Engineering, because they couldn't get into Business school/Medical/Law which requires higher grades. I don't know if where he comes from, an Engineering degree is a big deal or something. And I am not dissing Engineering, but there is alot pressure here to be on a certain level over here in terms of grades, and which major is popular and sought after would require the highest grades to get in and engineering is not one of the majors that requires the highest grades to get in, and also because it's not popular, so most people who goes into it only go in because they had no choice and couldn't get into their first choice. It was a decent second choice. Of course there is worst than engineering in hierarchy of majors.

Like in context, he was impressed with alot of things which made me rolled my eyes. I don't even want to mention what her current occupation prior to this job is. As it's completely unrelated to her new job he is offering her. She does not have the experience, from the correct field, not even the correct degree. Which is why, he is training her from scratch too. But she is definitely paid at least twice the salary of what is normal. And yea, I don't know what's going on. It just irks me when someone cannot be honest that he has romantic interest in her and keeps denying it. Especially when we been good friends forever. And I always tell him about my romantic interests and developments as it comes. He was browsing her LinkedIn when he first showed me her profile and mention to me that he was thinking of employing her. Basically in his logic, he genuinely think she is gonna make him loads of money, and on top of that, she needs help with a job that pays better than what she is stuck with now due to her sick mom. Win-Win.

I think on my end, my main gripe is, this is a close friend who I trust, and at the moment, I cannot understand why he cannot simply be honest about his romantic interest in her and instead claiming it's work and well thought out practical decision everything he is doing.

I personally do not think he will ever initiate anything sexual with her or say sexually inappropriate things ever. Unless she initiates it, I know he won't refuse, and that's not just her, I think pretty much he won't turn down any woman who initiates, knowing him, he likes it when women initiates and would think it's his lucky day. But I am just trying to figure if he is really interested in her for more, or just truly just work.

I think it's very hard when a long time friend who has been around for you and many other people. I've known him for a long time, and he always helped people, it's not gender specific and because he has more male friends, he has helped more male friends. Like if a male friend needs a kidney, he is first in line, no hesitation.

It's like so fucking weird why can't he just be open about it and straight out tell me, he has romantic interest in her. But of course the other reason could be, he believes it is totally true it's just business, and I am the one drawing all the wrong conclusions due to the way he is doing it which could be misconstrue as romantic interest.

As unlike porcelaine boss, he is friendly and personable with all employees. And not an aloof guy, working with him, would feel more like working with a cool friend. Not very authoritarian type of character. And doesn't like being stuffy. Like the bromance with him and his business partner is amazing.

So it's hard to say. I personally cannot imagine him making a woman feel uncomfortable with his niceness. But yea, I guess in terms of boss to female employee relationship, she might feel she have less of a choice in responses.

But I know he would never ever touch a woman who didn't initiate, as he is not even a physically affectionate guy to start with. So in terms of physical harassment, she is 100% safe. And I don't see ever saying anything sexually inappropriate to her, because in terms of PR, he is one of the most diplomatic person I know who never says anything wrong ever. Like he is not one of those guys who would outrage women with inappropriate things. He keeps that behind locker room very purposely. He has ALOT of filters intentively.

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/3/2017 11:39:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Like in context, he was impressed with alot of things which made me rolled my eyes. I don't even want to mention what her current occupation prior to this job is. As it's completely unrelated to her new job he is offering her. She does not have the experience, from the correct field, not even the correct degree. Which is why, he is training her from scratch too.

Not knowing the person in question it’s difficult to say. But soft skills can overcome a lot. Especially when you impress the right people. I did not have a financial background when I entered finance. But the person interviewing me liked me a lot and was a former career counselor. She critiqued my resume and told me what to change, tore it up and instructed me to send her the replacement the next day. I got the job and had similar experiences as previously described. My boss really believed in me and provided more access and training than anyone else received in the department. But I asked.

quote:

And yea, I don't know what's going on. It just irks me when someone cannot be honest that he has romantic interest in her and keeps denying it.

Perhaps this situation is different and he isn’t out of touch at all. But the risk of revelation is too steep. My boss was a senior level executive from the parent company. The entire subsidiary answered to him and we were in fifty states. No one was going to challenge him and I wouldn’t expect him to admit what he was doing either. Though I confess it created strained relations in the department between my coworkers and I save one.

quote:

Basically in his logic, he genuinely think she is gonna make him loads of money, and on top of that, she needs help with a job that pays better than what she is stuck with now due to her sick mom. Win-Win.

I had a “damsel” situation at the time which is why I required two days off and had to leave work on certain days. He was aware of it and expressed his unflinching support as did my previous manager. I had so much on my shoulders and I was crushing it at work in spite of it. We were type-a go-getters and he often advised me about different matters or suggested I try my hand at things I’d never taken on. Heck, I was dealing with marketing and had no clue about that.

quote:

But I am just trying to figure if he is really interested in her for more, or just truly just work.

It could be a bit of both. My manager in finance and the gentleman referenced both accomplished significant feats in their careers. Proverbial firsts if you will. I think people with that mindset will deeply invest in those whom they believe have a similar makeup and potential.

quote:

As unlike porcelaine boss, he is friendly and personable with all employees. And not an aloof guy, working with him, would feel more like working with a cool friend. Not very authoritarian type of character. And doesn't like being stuffy. Like the bromance with him and his business partner is amazing.

My boss was hard as nails. He rarely smiled. Most people feared him. But I’d sit in his office and chit chat and discuss golf because that was our relationship. He maintained a professional demeanor with everyone else but I rarely saw him making jokes or having small talk.

quote:

So it's hard to say. I personally cannot imagine him making a woman feel uncomfortable with his niceness. But yea, I guess in terms of boss to female employee relationship, she might feel she have less of a choice in responses.

I was never uncomfortable save the open shirt incident. But his behavior towards me affected everyone else. They were already on edge about their jobs and his favoritism made it even worse. My obliviousness to what was taking place was simply due to expectation. I was accustomed to the spoils of overachieving and saw little reason why he shouldn’t give me more responsibility if I’m able to perform exemplary. I thrive in competitve environments because that is my makeup. But that was not the culture in our company. It was his mindset alone.

I suspect this woman may have a similar situation in that her boss is both an employer and views himself as a benefactor too. She will thrive if she maintains things as they are. As long as there’s no impropriety she will benefit from his patronage much like I did.

If it isn’t romantically inspired then he simply desires to assist her in different ways and significantly more than others. Your question prompted me to look over the whole of my work record and at every turn the pattern has been the same as the one I’ve shared. I don’t know if this woman has the same work ethic but since you reference his suggestion that she would make him lots of money it’s clear he believes she will. In my case it wasn’t a question of money but the fact that my performance shined favorably on them each. And in the corporate world that carries a lot of weight.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/3/2017 1:15:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
My boss was hard as nails. He rarely smiled. Most people feared him. But I’d sit in his office and chit chat and discuss golf because that was our relationship. He maintained a professional demeanor with everyone else but I rarely saw him making jokes or having small talk.

My own personal ex-boss was someone who everyone feared, because he was the screaming and yelling type and will just fire when pissed off. When I resigned, the lady who replaced me got fired within 2 weeks. And she told me I lied to her when I told her he was nice. But I wasn't lying, I explain to her his style and how to handle him. Basically, I am a blunt brutally honest person. He likes that. He likes people who just says the truth and don't bullshit. Unfortunately, when she makes mistakes, she made excuses. And it's that kind of stuffs that gets him irate and he starts getting angry. I always just go to him and tell him straight, "This happened, I fuck up, I need help to fix it!" And then he is focus on solutions. No reprimanding at all. And he is not angry at all but rather please to help. It's that easy!

So 11 years with him as his right hand, he has never gotten mad at me about anything ever. That's just working chemistry. Yet his behaviour towards me as a male boss was impeccable. We never talk about anything personal with each other. And our conversations are truly 100% work related only.

But when I was going through my divorce, he told me that he wants me to come to work everyday and be around people even if I didn't do any work. But just hang around and be around people. He practically paid me for 6 months to do nothing but mope and basically deliver lesser work. Still never once gave me shit for it. Just understood. He was someone who was so clearly had no ulterior motive but just cared for me as a long time employee. He even told me if I need to talk to a woman, he could get his wife to talk to me, about whatever I was going through which was very kind.

But yea, my this friend's personality is completely different. When he talks to anybody, you'd think he is everyone's best friend. Even his employees. Male or Female. It's the personal conversations, emotionally open conversations that he has with her, that makes me ponder what's going on.

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/3/2017 6:22:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Yea, he told me, he was gonna groom her to be his star saleswoman. He basically thinks the world of her at the moment. In many ways, since he is gonna be her mentor to groom her, they will be working closely together. I also thought he was impressed with silly stuffs that I felt her skills were normal for women in my region and it's almost like something most women have. Multiple Chinese languages for example which is not unique and quite common, she's Chinese after all and most Chinese women can speak 3 different Chinese languages including me. And Engineering degree? Like seriously, if he goes into Engineering over here, it's basically filled with women, and technically over here, it's a walk of shame to get into Engineering, because they couldn't get into Business school/Medical/Law which requires higher grades. I don't know if where he comes from, an Engineering degree is a big deal or something. And I am not dissing Engineering, but there is alot pressure here to be on a certain level over here in terms of grades, and which major is popular and sought after would require the highest grades to get in and engineering is not one of the majors that requires the highest grades to get in, and also because it's not popular, so most people who goes into it only go in because they had no choice and couldn't get into their first choice. It was a decent second choice. Of course there is worst than engineering in hierarchy of majors.

Like in context, he was impressed with alot of things which made me rolled my eyes. I don't even want to mention what her current occupation prior to this job is. As it's completely unrelated to her new job he is offering her. She does not have the experience, from the correct field, not even the correct degree. Which is why, he is training her from scratch too. But she is definitely paid at least twice the salary of what is normal. And yea, I don't know what's going on. It just irks me when someone cannot be honest that he has romantic interest in her and keeps denying it. Especially when we been good friends forever. And I always tell him about my romantic interests and developments as it comes. He was browsing her LinkedIn when he first showed me her profile and mention to me that he was thinking of employing her. Basically in his logic, he genuinely think she is gonna make him loads of money, and on top of that, she needs help with a job that pays better than what she is stuck with now due to her sick mom. Win-Win.

I think on my end, my main gripe is, this is a close friend who I trust, and at the moment, I cannot understand why he cannot simply be honest about his romantic interest in her and instead claiming it's work and well thought out practical decision everything he is doing.

I personally do not think he will ever initiate anything sexual with her or say sexually inappropriate things ever. Unless she initiates it, I know he won't refuse, and that's not just her, I think pretty much he won't turn down any woman who initiates, knowing him, he likes it when women initiates and would think it's his lucky day. But I am just trying to figure if he is really interested in her for more, or just truly just work.

I think it's very hard when a long time friend who has been around for you and many other people. I've known him for a long time, and he always helped people, it's not gender specific and because he has more male friends, he has helped more male friends. Like if a male friend needs a kidney, he is first in line, no hesitation.

It's like so fucking weird why can't he just be open about it and straight out tell me, he has romantic interest in her. But of course the other reason could be, he believes it is totally true it's just business, and I am the one drawing all the wrong conclusions due to the way he is doing it which could be misconstrue as romantic interest.

As unlike porcelaine boss, he is friendly and personable with all employees. And not an aloof guy, working with him, would feel more like working with a cool friend. Not very authoritarian type of character. And doesn't like being stuffy. Like the bromance with him and his business partner is amazing.

So it's hard to say. I personally cannot imagine him making a woman feel uncomfortable with his niceness. But yea, I guess in terms of boss to female employee relationship, she might feel she have less of a choice in responses.

But I know he would never ever touch a woman who didn't initiate, as he is not even a physically affectionate guy to start with. So in terms of physical harassment, she is 100% safe. And I don't see ever saying anything sexually inappropriate to her, because in terms of PR, he is one of the most diplomatic person I know who never says anything wrong ever. Like he is not one of those guys who would outrage women with inappropriate things. He keeps that behind locker room very purposely. He has ALOT of filters intentively.

Having read this post, I still think that your friend should be very careful about how his actions are interpreted by others, at the very least because he seems to be showing this woman great favouritism which, as porcelaine suggests, will alienate other members of the team.

My instinct still says that he consciously or sub-consciously wants something romantic or sexual to happen, and that he may be making this woman feel harassed by his attention. Other things you say however lead me to think that you yourself may be wondering about whether you are reading this situation the right way. In particular you sound a bit pissed that he has such a high opinion of her professionally when you do not.

Her chosen degree has nothing to do with her ability. There is an expectation everywhere that people will do the degree with the highest grade requirement they can get into. I could easily have done a medical or law degree because I had the grades. The fact is I wasn't interested in those subjects so I did the degree I wanted to do. He clearly thought she was impressive even before he hired her. That might be because he thinks she is attractive but it might just be that he sees something in her that you don't.

I can understand that you are disappointed that he has such a high opinion of her, and that you are concerned because as your friend you think he should be able to admit to you if he has romantic designs on her.

Certainly taking a female member of your team out to dinner regularly doesn't seem like a good move for a boss unless it is completely without coercion or expectation on both sides. Even then there are ethical issues about how two people should deal with an emerging romantic/sexual relationship within a work team. You do say yourself however that he would never make a move on her.

If you have no evidence that she is feeling pressured, are you more concerned about her welfare or his reputation? Or is it perhaps that, as a friend, he wont openly admit to you that he has romantic or sexual intentions when you think that he does?

Is the fact that your friend is putting so much time and energy into someone you don't think merits it, the thing that makes you feel the way you do. Is that the reason why you are so concerned about his motivations, especially when you seem to think he is such a nice guy?

On the other hand, he could just be a major sleaze, who wanted to get into her pants from the moment he saw her and has been sexually grooming and harassing her ever since, without any thought about the inappropriateness of doing that in his senior position.

I'm not sure if I'm reading it right but you don't seem to think that is what is really happening.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/4/2017 1:06:37 AM

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quote:

as a friend, he wont openly admit to you that he has romantic or sexual intentions when you think that he does?

My concern is basically just this. He swears to me if he is interested in her romantically, he would tell me. But he said truly, it's just business. And for me, I am hurt he is lying to me about this and why does he feel he can't be honest about it? I basically don't believe it's not romantic. He insist it's purely a business decision. And then he also claim he match made her with another of his single mate who is nearer her age. And they been on two dates. But like, then why the hell are you always asking her out for dinner as well after hooking her out with your mate ya know and claiming they are working out.

I met this mate he was talking about too, and I totally clash with this dude! I didn't like him at all. Because I said to him, oh really? You got mates to match make people with, and why not me? All these years, never once you match made me? And he said, I met the guy, and I hated him. Lol..., it was true. That dude was Brit and super duper left leaning and we clash immediately. He had alot of criticisms for Singapore and the way things run around here, and I am wondering why is he living here by choice, like go live in other parts of Asia if he likes things less orderly! I had dinner with my friend and that dude once. And it was tense when we started talking and clashing.

I don't believe she is in any danger from him at all. She may keep accommodating his text and dinner dates, but I will never know if she feels she has to, or she enjoys it too. He is a very warm and caring personality to everyone around him. You feel it even in his interaction with his male buddies. So it's pretty hard to get offended by him in any way. I have been out with him, where he invited strangers to dine with us, like another couple to join us, the other couple was on a date night. And he paid for their bill, about nearly 300bux. He didn't even know them. Just did it out of a wimp. No ulterior motive. He just felt like it. All of these years I've known him, he is the kindest person I ever met. I known him to do stuffs for people with no reciprocation required ever. That's why this employee situation is extremely confusing.

I would have appreciate it if he simply told me, he really likes this woman and wants to help her. But he basically got all defensive and started talking business-like formal to me and gave me a whole long list of reasons of why he is employing her business-wise, which for example, when he mentioned her major, it's like how is it related? Trust me, whatever line of work he is in has ZERO to do with engineering. Like not even close.

Okay, I agree with porcelaine she has good soft skills. And she is very good looking. So for a sales job, that is good. He claims that there are companies run by females that prefer a female sales person to be servicing them. And she would do well serving those companies.

But as a female, I disagree that it would be even a "thing" for female dominated companies to prefer to work with females. It depends on the man and his demeanor. It also depends on the woman.

It's just, I don't know what to believe.

I always expected him to like when he falls inlove with a woman, to just tell me straight about it and share with me his progress. Because throughout my years, I've had my ins and outs romantically with my "boyfriends" and I have always shared with him about it like a buddy. With the man I am currently inlove with dying of cancer, he provided me with emotional support.

Maybe men and women are just different, even on expectations of a close friendship.

I think if this was a female close friend who was interested in a guy and totally denying it to me, I'd be like, WTF too? Like why?

And also, all the years I am known him. His company believe or not was a all male team. This would be the only female he has employed like I don't know if he did in the past before I met him. But it's 5 years of knowing him, and this is the first female he ever employed. He said it gotta do with the job requiring alot of traveling and many women got family and stuffs and can't travel. But this woman is newly divorced and single and he reckons she would be fine for the next few years, not looking to settle down any time soon again. Part of his logical conclusion to hiring her.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/4/2017 1:27:04 AM >

(in reply to longwayhome)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/4/2017 6:06:37 AM

CaptR

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Joined: 4/25/2012
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Greta, As I read through your posts I see them start out as concern for another female employee and possible sexual harassment. As you progress your interests shift to your "good friend." You question his honesty with you about another woman. It's really not your business. You defend him when I suggested he was "grooming" her for sexual reasons. Also, you question the qualifications of this other woman in an about face of your earlier support for her position. I don't think this is about sexual harassment or a bosses loyalty to his workers shown in an unorthodox way. Poo poo me all you want but my belief is you have feelings for this man and are more than just a little jealous of this other woman he's paying attention to.

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(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/4/2017 7:46:43 AM

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

Greta, As I read through your posts I see them start out as concern for another female employee and possible sexual harassment. As you progress your interests shift to your "good friend." You question his honesty with you about another woman. It's really not your business. You defend him when I suggested he was "grooming" her for sexual reasons. Also, you question the qualifications of this other woman in an about face of your earlier support for her position. I don't think this is about sexual harassment or a bosses loyalty to his workers shown in an unorthodox way. Poo poo me all you want but my belief is you have feelings for this man and are more than just a little jealous of this other woman he's paying attention to.

No actually from my very very first post. It was about trying to figure out if he was romantically interested in her or not. And if he was lying to me that he was not. Nothing about her.

Then other people starts bringing the angle of sexual harassment, which right from the beginning, I question how is this sexual when there is no sexual stuffs doing on.

And then they explain it to me, and then I start understanding. I never had concern for the woman at all. I just simply state facts that, coming to think about it, because of the culture she comes from, she may not be able to assert herself and her true opinions. But I do not at any moment believe she is in any real danger from him. She just needs to speak up and tell him she is uncomfortable, he will 100% back off and trust me, her job will not be jeopardize, but of course she doesn't know that. Because she doesn't know him well enough. So I simply stated a fact that she might feel obligated.

As for my "feelings" for him. I think you are man, so you can only see it as romantic love. Even girlfriends get jealous of their closest girlfriends starting to spend more time with their boyfriends and neglecting them. And it can get quite upset to the extent that it goes into a big shit fight about it and get very emotional.

I know men don't experience this with their close buddies. But it's quite common among women.

Just that this close friend of mine is MALE and I am Female. I am having a normal Female reaction.

For me, on a friendship level, no matter what, I gave him my friendship and my trust, I expect reciprocal.

Have you never ever had a friend you could share everything about your life with THAT IS NOT a spouse or a girlfriend?

I have always been closer to my male friends than the actual man I married or date. In terms of emotional closeness. Even when I was married, I had a male friend who was not my husband, I talk to way more stuffs with and was more close with emotionally than with my x-husband. Like i identify a life mate as someone I have physical closeness with, but not necessary emotional closeness. Because reality is, men I have emotional closeness with usually suck in bed for me. i don't know why. And if I want a life partner, i want someone I enjoy in bed.

i grew up with my brothers. And also, ever since my other brother fell inlove, I have been complaining to this friend of mine that he doesn't spend time with me anymore. Because both my brothers were also my closest friends. Even today, I can tell my brother anything. Except for him to spend time with me now, his girlfriend needs to be overseas. Which sucks.

But my brother would tell me if he is falling for another woman. And I expect this guy who is one of my closest friend to tell me too.

That's my expectation of what a close friendship entails anyway, that we can tell each other anything. Otherwise, don't be my friend. Or don't claim to be my friend. We are just acquaintances. I don't have in between friendships. It's either very deep and close. Or very distance.

So I know people will think this is romantic jealousy, but it's not. I know for a fact that me and him are not suitable for each other, because, he and I have very different visions of what makes a good relationship. And also both of us have different expectations about sex. Like not even on the same page.

The other thing is, if anybody see me with my brothers, or hear me on the phone with my brothers. They would think I am talking to my boyfriend and not a brother.

And my brother hold my arm when we go out, like a boyfriend. I know it's abit weird now looking back as adults. But back then, we had a very loving relationship that we didn't think much of it. It's just getting older, that people are being weird about it.

I mean, I practically spent my entire life sharing a bedroom with both my brothers. So we did everything together. My friendship with men, is model after my friendship with my brothers. And me and my brothers were so comfortable to the extent that they will discuss what they did in bed with their girlfriends and how they can improve things in bed with her. Like super comfy to discuss even about details about sex.

And you know what? My friendship with this guy. He reminds of the brother I am complaining is having no time for me because of his girlfriend now. He feels like the brother I am closest to. They have the same personality and character.

I never view us as romantic ever! The other thing is, I always have male closer friends than female friends. Because I got mom issues. And I don't trust women subconsciously, I always feel like they are my enemy. But I feel so much more comfortable with men. And all my life, I've always been like the only girl hanging out among a group of men in school and outside of school. Never really bonded with girls.

But my emotional reaction to my perceived of him lying to me is a very female one.

I guess as a man, you wouldn't give a shit if your best friend is chasing another woman or not. But even if I had a girlfriend who was my best girlfriend. And she started sounding like bullshit, I'd be like WTF is going on? Which I can't even imagine this. Girlfriends would also tell you straight if she got a crush on a guy at work. It's like bonding talk.

End of the day, he is someone I trust alot, and for me, if he doesn't feel comfortable to be honest with me about this. I feel like.., wait..., what's going on? I cannot imagine my brother being unable to be honest with me about ANYTHING inappropriate he is doing. If he cheated on his girlfriend, I'd be the first to know. Because he would confine in me his feelings and his deeds.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/4/2017 8:02:16 AM >

(in reply to CaptR)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/4/2017 8:13:30 AM

CaptR

Posts: 425
Joined: 4/25/2012
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Just sounds like more rationalizing underlying feelings to me. What my friends do is their business whether they're spending time communicating with me or physically in my company. It's their life and I let them live unencumbered. If I feel they're right I support them. When I don't agree, if asked I voice my opinion and let it go at that. I don't obsess over their behavior. With your last post you've validated why those idiotic "Wives of" shows are so popular. Women can't keep much quiet when it comes to other women. However I'm a man and yes even if wrong I calls em like I sees em.

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(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/4/2017 8:17:44 AM

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

Just sounds like more rationalizing underlying feelings to me. What my friends do is their business whether they're spending time communicating with me or physically in my company. It's their life and I let them live unencumbered. If I feel they're right I support them. When I don't agree, if asked I voice my opinion and let it go at that. I don't obsess over their behavior. With your last post you've validated why those idiotic "Wives of" shows are so popular. Women can't keep much quiet when it comes to other women. However I'm a man and yes even if wrong I calls em like I sees em.

Ya but that's just acquaintances.
Not like your closest friends.

I don't care what acquaintances do in their life. I don't give a shit.

But with a close friendship, is base on alot of mutual trust that you can share things with each other, that's why it becomes a close friendship.

I would be as hurt if my brother did this to me. But my brothers wouldn't. They would tell me everything. And ironically, from my brother's perspective about this issue. My brother believes there is nothing romantic going on at all. And that he can't tell me there is because there is none.

The real issue is, is when you realise the friendship is not mutual.

If he was telling the truth, it's mutual.

If he wasn't telling the truth, it's not mutual. It means he does not trust me as much as I trust him.

And yea, that is hurting.

It's like if my brothers didn't trust me, I'd be super hurt too.

Whatever strong feelings I have for him is similar to the strong feelings I have for my brothers.

We have no sexual connection at all. So it's not that i am lying to myself. But for me to identify it as romantic, we actually need to connect sexually and not just emotionally and mentally. Because I am close to many male friends who I don't have sex with. And the emotional openness can be intense.

I have thought about this in my life alot. I have a very unique platonic close friendship with different men along my life. I lost some of the best male friends because they wanted to move from friendship to lovers which I did not want it that way.

Because I think sexual relationships are volatile. Some guys you love having as your friend for life. And some guys, you love having sex with and don't feel like it's the end of the world if you lost him, but that's like the person you wanna marry because, it's good to be with someone who you aren't afraid to lose. Because that's important right? Be with someone who you can live without, so that even if it ends, you are okay back being single.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/4/2017 8:18:41 AM >

(in reply to CaptR)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/4/2017 9:11:31 AM

CaptR

Posts: 425
Joined: 4/25/2012
Status: offline

You have that backwards for a very large population of men. My closest friends are the ones who have the most leeway when divulging their information. There is an understanding of respect for privacy written into those relationships. Your trying to put your emotional/ relationship values somewhere they don't fit. Some men will share intimate goings on with their friends, some don't. I have lifelong dear friends who have no clue what goes on behind closed doors in my home. They may wonder but it's not their business and vice versa. My own brother and sisters aren't aware of the lifestyle affiliations we hold. Why? Because it's private. I'm assuming he's all grown up and can reap what he sows. If he needs guidance or advice and actually ASKS you for some THEN you can concern yourself with his actions. Unless you suspect he's about to leave the remains of some poor girl in a suitcase on the balcony, give the man his reins and privacy to live his life without interference. Where I come from we call what you're about "meddling."

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(in reply to Greta75)

RE: I have a non-BDSM generic BGR question - 12/4/2017 9:32:06 AM

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I was just thinking, while alot of men are aloof. But men have committed suicide when they lost their best male friends as well. You know, even though it's platonic, and they were not gay, it can be deeply emotional. Losing your best friend can be very painful even though it's not romantic.

And I can't explain how this is not romantic, because first of all, not everyone ever experienced close friendships with opposite genders unless it was romantic so it's hard to understand the depth of it.

For me, if I decide this is a lie. Trust is kinda broken, in a way, if he don't trust me. I don't trust him.

If he was just telling the absolute truth. Then I am really upset about nothing.

And if he had genuine interest in this woman, and he confined in me about it. I would be very happy! And I could advise him how to properly go about it in this sticky situation of employer and employee. Like how I have always helped my brothers get the woman they want. And I feel good about it! Both my brothers got their happy endings.

(in reply to Greta75)

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