quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

its really not an answer to my point.

no one is suggesting ignoring means of murder or mass murder. im not making an either/or proposition.

im suggesting that since the left makes so much fuss about guns in particular when it comes to murder, when there are so many other ways that they don't fuss over, that something else is likely going on as concerns guns.

How do the bodycounts racked up by somebody with a gun in Las vegas and with a truck in New York compare?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama if you want to own weapons that can kill then yes i want you to pay the price to have some assurance of sanity... I do understand your objections for obvious reasons.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

theres something deeper, more philosophical, more essential to the differences between left and right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am not sure what you mean.
Butch

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I agree... I believe police are intimidated by gun lobbyist and enthusiastic owners and are hesitant to take action for fear of backlash.

Butch

quote:

Misconduct MC 310
Neglect of Duty

This section discusses the principles to be applied in cases where the claimant is discharged for allegedly:

Neglecting to perform all the duties of his or her job, or failing to complete or do some particular task.
Sleeping on the job.
Temporarily ceasing to work.
Wasting production time.

This section is different from Manner of Performing Work, MC 300, which discusses cases where the claimant actually performs his or her duties but the performance is not satisfactory. If the claimant is discharged for failure to follow a specific instruction or order, refer to Insubordination, MC 255.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am not sure what you mean.
Butch

How do we ensure those with mental health issues don't pass their mental health screens by those who are very pro 2nd Amendment?

The opportunity for appeal works when one thinks one has been unfairly prevented from buying a gun, but who is going to appeal being allowed to buy a gun when one has been falsely passed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Hang on ... what happened to the 'thoughts and prayers' in this thread? By tradition, those are got out of the way before we get on to how *everything* should be considered as a cause of this latest gun atrocity, other than, of course, the ludicrous level of gun ownership in the USA and the fruitcake gun culture behind it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Known to law enforcement
Johnston said the gunman had "prior contacts with law enforcement." In January the man was arrested on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon in a case that involved the neighbor who died Tuesday, Johnston said.
Johnston added that the woman had a restraining order against the shooter.
source

Let's break this down for those who insist guns are the problem:

In January the man was arrested on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon

Gee, why the hell didnt the cops seize his guns then? In a case like this, it would be standard procedure in most jurisdictions....

Johnston added that the woman had a restraining order against the shooter.

Again, with this, local law enforcement are responsible under federal law to remove guns from the possession of the person, since under federal law, the shooter could not legally possess firearms in the first place.


But hey, its not the fault of the police for not enforcing the damn laws, not their job....

Nope, its the fault of the people who own guns, support gun ownership yadda yadda yadda yadda.

I love it, the cops and local authority fucked up and did not take his guns (which is what you people want) and you still blame the fact that people can buy guns?


From the ATF website, the people who cannot legally possess firearms, again:

convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

who is a fugitive from justice;

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

who is an illegal alien;

who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;

who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
The guy had a restraining order against him



The GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 992(n) also makes it unlawful for any person under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship, transport, or receive firearms or ammunition.
The shooter had been arrested for suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon, and still under investigation for that charge


The cops should have seized those guns in January.

But I dont see anyone calling for their heads on a platter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Known to law enforcement
Johnston said the gunman had "prior contacts with law enforcement." In January the man was arrested on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon in a case that involved the neighbor who died Tuesday, Johnston said.
Johnston added that the woman had a restraining order against the shooter.
source

Let's break this down for those who insist guns are the problem:

In January the man was arrested on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon

Gee, why the hell didnt the cops seize his guns then? In a case like this, it would be standard procedure in most jurisdictions....

Johnston added that the woman had a restraining order against the shooter.

Again, with this, local law enforcement are responsible under federal law to remove guns from the possession of the person, since under federal law, the shooter could not legally possess firearms in the first place.


But hey, its not the fault of the police for not enforcing the damn laws, not their job....

Nope, its the fault of the people who own guns, support gun ownership yadda yadda yadda yadda.

I love it, the cops and local authority fucked up and did not take his guns (which is what you people want) and you still blame the fact that people can buy guns?


From the ATF website, the people who cannot legally possess firearms, again:

convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

who is a fugitive from justice;

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

who is an illegal alien;

who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;

who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
The guy had a restraining order against him



The GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 992(n) also makes it unlawful for any person under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship, transport, or receive firearms or ammunition.
The shooter had been arrested for suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon, and still under investigation for that charge


The cops should have seized those guns in January.

But I dont see anyone calling for their heads on a platter.

The powers that be, seem to be inadequate at best, and if nothing else, that should be ringing the alarm bell.
The government seems to screw up all the time, most of us have little faith in the "system".

So now, we should be "okay" with a system that is broken, controlling those who should be allowed to purchase firearms?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Update, on the psycho shooter, add another victim, and the number is up to at least 5.

His wife, was found under the floorboards in his home.


Daily Mail-Shooters wife found under floorboards

People like this, are able to purchase weapons in the states.

From the article in the Daily Mail:

Officials say Kevin Hanson Neal, 43, began firing at 7.52am on Tuesday
Police raided his home Wednesday and found his wife's remains concealed under floorboards
They believe the killing of his wife is what started his rampage on Tuesday
He opened fire near his home on Bobcat Lane in Rancho Tehama then drove off
On his way through the town, he shot a woman and her child in their truck
The mother suffered life-threatening wounds and remains in hospital
A second child was hurt at Rancho Tehama Elementary School and airlifted
He was identified as Alejandro Hernandez, 6, and is expected to recover
Neal attempted to gain entry to the school, but it was on lockdown
Police shot the gunman was found dead near the school after a brief gunfight
Ten people, including the two children injured, remain in the hospital

wow, just wow

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Update, on the psycho shooter, add another victim, and the number is up to at least 5.

His wife, was found under the floorboards in his home.


Daily Mail-Shooters wife found under floorboards

People like this, are able to purchase weapons in the states.

From the article in the Daily Mail:

Officials say Kevin Hanson Neal, 43, began firing at 7.52am on Tuesday
Police raided his home Wednesday and found his wife's remains concealed under floorboards
They believe the killing of his wife is what started his rampage on Tuesday
He opened fire near his home on Bobcat Lane in Rancho Tehama then drove off
On his way through the town, he shot a woman and her child in their truck
The mother suffered life-threatening wounds and remains in hospital
A second child was hurt at Rancho Tehama Elementary School and airlifted
He was identified as Alejandro Hernandez, 6, and is expected to recover
Neal attempted to gain entry to the school, but it was on lockdown
Police shot the gunman was found dead near the school after a brief gunfight
Ten people, including the two children injured, remain in the hospital

wow, just wow

Killing his wife wasn't what set it off, it is where he started.
This news has been out all day.
Another life that would have been saved if the police had done their job.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Update, on the psycho shooter, add another victim, and the number is up to at least 5.

His wife, was found under the floorboards in his home.


Daily Mail-Shooters wife found under floorboards

People like this, are able to purchase weapons in the states.

From the article in the Daily Mail:

Officials say Kevin Hanson Neal, 43, began firing at 7.52am on Tuesday
Police raided his home Wednesday and found his wife's remains concealed under floorboards
They believe the killing of his wife is what started his rampage on Tuesday
He opened fire near his home on Bobcat Lane in Rancho Tehama then drove off
On his way through the town, he shot a woman and her child in their truck
The mother suffered life-threatening wounds and remains in hospital
A second child was hurt at Rancho Tehama Elementary School and airlifted
He was identified as Alejandro Hernandez, 6, and is expected to recover
Neal attempted to gain entry to the school, but it was on lockdown
Police shot the gunman was found dead near the school after a brief gunfight
Ten people, including the two children injured, remain in the hospital

wow, just wow

Killing his wife wasn't what set it off, it is where he started.
This news has been out all day.
Another life that would have been saved if the police had done their job.

Seriously, isn't that what I said earlier?

Also, I did not see, where anyone posted that he killed his wife and hid the body under the floorboards.
We agree the system is NOT working.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

With all of the mass shootings, that have occurred during the last 20 years, I think the more the public is aware
how much the "system" is NOT working, the better.

Something has to be done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

What I don't get is why the pro-gun crowd keeps saying 'it would work if only all of these millions of people across the country always did their job perfectly every single time and never made mistakes' without recognizing that the issue is that a system where they are expected to do so is exactly the problem.

Hmm, how about when you people figure out that the people who are paid to do their jobs aren't, and the people you elect to do fix little problems that we have constantly pointed out dont, or the fact that 54% of American legally own guns and of that number less than .00001% of them actually break the law using guns.

But hey, forget about the couple of million law abiding gun owners, and fuck them over in the name of public safety.

I have used Timothy McVeigh as an example before, and people keep saying it not valid.

What you and everyone else seems to forget, is that Timothy McVeigh, had the legal right to own guns, and did own guns, including at least one AR framed firearm...

What exactly did he use to kill all those people in Oklahoma City again?

You people are perfectly happy with the idea of punishing all gun owners, for the crimes of a few.

That is perfectly alright.

You blindly blame millions for the acts of a very small minority of gun owners, and balk at the blaming of all Muslims for the acts of a minority of that world population.

Its the same fucking logic.


The local law enforcement people did not do their jobs, but it is the fault of the gun owners.

The existing laws are not enforced.

That is the gun owners fault as well.

If the laws are not being enforced now, by those very people paid to enforce them, how the fuck is that the fault of the gun owners?

Guess what dumbass, all those wonderful anti gun liberals you keep electing to get rid of guns supported and passed a law that made it impossible to sue retailers who, in good faith sold a gun or guns to someone that legally could not buy a gun because the database to prevent such a sale is flawed.

Did they pass a law to make the back ground check system use ALL the databases that would have prevented the sale in the first place?

Fuck NO!

There are three crime databases operated by the US Department of Justice, the one used for gun purchase back ground checks is not mandatory for state or local law enforcement to participate in, but the other two are.

Those other two databases has all the information that would prevent gun sales to those individuals by law from buying a gun in the first place.

That was point one.

Point two:

By federal law, any individual under investigation for any felony crime (crimes punishable by more than a year in jail) is prohibited from possessing or purchasing a firearm until 1) they are cleared of all charges prior to going to trial, or b) are found not guilty in court, which means that the cops are supposed to seize and store any guns the person might own until 1 or 2 happens.

If a restraining order is filed on someone, they have to seize and store said weapons and if the order is not rescinded, dispose of said weapons.

And if you notice, BamaD, the one poster who screams so loudly about registration leading to confiscation, actually pointed that out twice, proving that a gun owner is perfectly okay with guns being confiscated when the laws are broke.

A fact you might want to consider when the truth is that all gun owners actually agree with that law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Yeah, you just totally missed my point as usual.

Oooooor, I think your point is invalid.