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RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 3:41:42 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

It's a direct attempt to persuade Trump's Justice Department to not block their planned merger with Time Warner. They make the steaming coil of a tax bill look like it's helping someone other than corporate interests and then don't have to pay the $500 million fee they would be on the hook for to Time Warner if they have to pull out of the merger deal. In the end, they save $300 million and Trump gets to claim a "victory" due to the tax bill.


You can claim that, but you are obviously just an idiot howling about your cartoonish delusions because a lot of companies are doing the same thing for the exact reasons AT&T gave



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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 3:42:48 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The AT&T / Time Warner will go through regardless of this tax reform bill. They are both taking the Govt. to court, and they will win. One has nothing to do with the other.


Right, it's up to the courts, not the president.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 3:59:45 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
I'm not so much worried about the income tax part of this bill. It is designed to help small businesses (who create the jobs ) and large corporations. 4% and maybe 5% GDP might be on the horizon

Small businesses ONLY create jobs, if their is a greater demand for their goods or services. (NOT because the owner got a tax break on his/her taxes).
Sigh...
The biggest myth of the supply-siders.

Thank God businesses don't look at making investments to drive down the costs of production so their cost of goods goes down and they can charge less. Wouldn't want businesses to compete for larger market share to drive up demand for their product line.

I am confused by your comment. But then again I am terrible at recognizing sarcasm.
First of all, businesses should and DO look at making investments to drive down the costs of production so their cost of goods goes down and they can charge less.
Large businesses have had large amounts of capital to dothis and HAVE done this since after the recession
Small businesses have less opportunity to make these investments, but do so when they can.
NONE of this creates jobs directly.
And more importantly.... None of this is in any way impacted by tax policy.


Less taxes means less money spent, right? I'm pretty solid with math, but please make sure I'm right. Assuming the price of goods doesn't change, paying less taxes might mean more profits, right? A company just might, and here things may get dicey, use the extra profits to increase their production floor space, add machinery (typically run by operators, so more machinery means more operators, means more jobs), etc.

[ sarcasm]So, yeah, tax policy has nothing to do with business investments.[/sarcasm]





They might, if they felt that demand would support it. Regardless of what their tax rate is. Ksep in mind, large businesses are flush with capital now. Investment in new machinery has taken place and will continue to take place. None of this has anything to do with tax policy.


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 4:09:47 PM   
LTE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
I'm not so much worried about the income tax part of this bill. It is designed to help small businesses (who create the jobs ) and large corporations. 4% and maybe 5% GDP might be on the horizon

Small businesses ONLY create jobs, if their is a greater demand for their goods or services. (NOT because the owner got a tax break on his/her taxes).
Sigh...
The biggest myth of the supply-siders.

Thank God businesses don't look at making investments to drive down the costs of production so their cost of goods goes down and they can charge less. Wouldn't want businesses to compete for larger market share to drive up demand for their product line.

I am confused by your comment. But then again I am terrible at recognizing sarcasm.
First of all, businesses should and DO look at making investments to drive down the costs of production so their cost of goods goes down and they can charge less.
Large businesses have had large amounts of capital to dothis and HAVE done this since after the recession
Small businesses have less opportunity to make these investments, but do so when they can.
NONE of this creates jobs directly.
And more importantly.... None of this is in any way impacted by tax policy.


Less taxes means less money spent, right? I'm pretty solid with math, but please make sure I'm right. Assuming the price of goods doesn't change, paying less taxes might mean more profits, right? A company just might, and here things may get dicey, use the extra profits to increase their production floor space, add machinery (typically run by operators, so more machinery means more operators, means more jobs), etc.

[ sarcasm]So, yeah, tax policy has nothing to do with business investments.[/sarcasm]





They might, if they felt that demand would support it. Regardless of what their tax rate is. Ksep in mind, large businesses are flush with capital now. Investment in new machinery has taken place and will continue to take place. None of this has anything to do with tax policy.




Tax rates are major decision points for deciding to where to invest and how much you invest if you think about it for just a second or two and perhaps took Economics in college.

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RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 4:22:48 PM   
servantforuse


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I guess it's just a coincidence then that all of the companies I mentioned earlier are investing money in their companies and giving bonuses to employees 30 minutes after the presidents speech,.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 4:30:58 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I guess it's just a coincidence then that all of the companies I mentioned earlier are investing money in their companies and giving bonuses to employees 30 minutes after the presidents speech,.


As much as leftists vilify corporations employers, of course they are more likely to invest here if conservatives are in power accomplishing true anti-leftist reforms

And of course investments pay dividends - for everybody

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 5:16:09 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
They might, if they felt that demand would support it. Regardless of what their tax rate is. Ksep in mind, large businesses are flush with capital now. Investment in new machinery has taken place and will continue to take place. None of this has anything to do with tax policy.


The whole reason corporate tax cuts are permanent is so the actions businesses take as a result of the tax changes, will also be permanent. Businesses may not be actively investing in their infrastructure because of the current tax rates.

Plus, individual tax cuts don't have the same impact on the economy as corporate tax cuts have, and the GOP had to comply with the Byrd Rule, so individual tax cuts were sunset. Much like with the Medicare reimbursement cuts that used to have a "Doc Fix" Bill passed every year to prevent it, the tax increases will likely not happen. It's political gamesmanship (aka bullshit) that both parties use to game the system.


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RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 5:58:14 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
They might, if they felt that demand would support it. Regardless of what their tax rate is. Ksep in mind, large businesses are flush with capital now. Investment in new machinery has taken place and will continue to take place. None of this has anything to do with tax policy.


The whole reason corporate tax cuts are permanent is so the actions businesses take as a result of the tax changes, will also be permanent. Businesses may not be actively investing in their infrastructure because of the current tax rates.

Plus, individual tax cuts don't have the same impact on the economy as corporate tax cuts have, and the GOP had to comply with the Byrd Rule, so individual tax cuts were sunset. Much like with the Medicare reimbursement cuts that used to have a "Doc Fix" Bill passed every year to prevent it, the tax increases will likely not happen. It's political gamesmanship (aka bullshit) that both parties use to game the system.



I agree with all you have posted except for:

Businesses may not be actively investing in their infrastructure because of the current tax rates.

Name a single business that falls into this category. Businesses invest, when they determine there is sufficient ROI. ROI requires demand. It also, as you correctly pointed out earlier, an opportunity to streamline their processes and lower their internal costs, as to take better advantage of current demand.

Either way, the demand for their goods and services needs to be there.

Large businesses are sitting on a mountain of capital already. If they want to invest, they are investing. PERIOD. Regardless of tax policy.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 6:02:43 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Drilling in Anwar is part of the tax reform bill. Finally.


The Obamacare mandate has gone the way of the Dodo, too.



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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 6:04:14 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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Joined: 12/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LTE

Tax rates are major decision points for deciding to where to invest and how much you invest if you think about it for just a second or two and perhaps took Economics in college.


That is a very simplistic and uninformed statement.

Tax rates are very MINOR decision points for deciding where to invest and how much to invest. I have thought about it quite a bit and took 2 semesters of economics in college.

ROI is a major decision point for investment decisions. Demand for increased production is a major decision point for investment decisions. Tax rates? Not so much,


Now TARGETED tax policy (e.g. The state of New York offering a state tax immunity in return for investment in Rochester) is a major factor.

But general corporate tax rates? No.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 6:12:43 PM   
Marini


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I have read most of the responses, and overall, this is an informative thread.
Not that much snarking, and not that many hateful comments.

We all know, it is virtually impossible to have zero snarking/and hateful comments on a message board, but
this thread has provided information worth considering, from those "for" and "against" this tax bill.


Currently, I am neutral when it comes to these tax cuts.
Like many, I understand the "basics", I am sure many of us will be getting an education about taxes in the future.
I don't mind getting a few more dollars on my paycheck, but at what cost, down the road?

I hate paying taxes, I have always felt they were too high, and I have also always not been happy about WHERE most of
the money, I pay in taxes GOES and how it is SPENT.


Where the hell is the safety net, for the middle class?
Who cares about the middle class?
Bust your ass to get here, work your ass off to stay middle class, and there are no programs to help the middle class, if you need help.

OH there is a safety net for the middle class! Its called falling down, losing everything, then becoming poor and destitute and hoping you qualify for some government assistance.


How many can honestly say, that they don't feel like the government throws away, and wastes a lot of our tax money?


From what I understand, this is the biggest tax reform, in about 30 years, time will tell how this ends.

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/20/2017 6:26:35 PM >


_____________________________

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"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 8:33:03 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

FR

Now that the bill has passed I'm waiting to hear the words "welfare reform" again.


I heard Trump is going after welfare months ago.



Washington Post- Republicans target welfare, medicaid and medicare in 2018

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 9:19:24 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

AT&T has just announced that that will be investing 1 billion in the coming year. They are also giving a $1000.00 bonus to 200,000 of their employees. It is a direct result of the bill signed today. Southwest Airlines, Fed Ex and Boeing are also announcing expansions as well.

Legalized extortion always pays. Plus, these are annual Christmas bonuses anyway.

Never mind that all of those companies could have done that anyway. How many jobs...a few hundred, maybe ?

Conservative economists have long believed that it would be investment, not bursts of executive generosity, that would drive up worker pay as companies took home more money.

The empirical evidence is not good. Even as corporate earnings have ascended to their largest share of GDP since the postwar boom, and corporations get better and better at dodging the taxman, wages and salaries now occupy their lowest share of GDP since the second world war. Real wages have barely budged upward since 1980—and have fallen for the lowest-paid workers.

There's your 37 years of trickle down horseshit. Funny how it's the marketplace that was to determine wages and bonuses. Now we see that a the tax code subsidy was all that was needed.

Kids, when you grow up and work and pay taxes, be proud that your taxes are making up for trillion$ in tax cuts for his company and others for daddy's boss and got him a $1,000 xmas bonus...20 years ago.

Here we were told that corp. don't pay taxes, customers do. Well now the taxpayer pays bonuses. Isn't that precious.

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RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 9:22:31 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Drilling in Anwar is part of the tax reform bill. Finally.


Feb 2015

The policy, announced last week, won't have much effect on the nation's oil production—Alaska accounts for only 7 percent of it, and most of the protected areas have been off-limits to industry for decades. And it didn't really change the status quo or offer anywhere near the environmental protection the President could have conveyed. But he sure ticked off some Alaskans.

In what has become the trademark Texas two-step of its energy policy, the Obama administration compensated the oil industry generously: Braving opposition from marine scientists and environmentalists, it opened up tens of millions of acres off the mid-Atlantic coast and in the Gulf of Mexico to drillers.

The only bit of good news for Alaskans who see an expansion of the oil and gas industry as the key to the state's future came late in the week. Royal Dutch Shell said it plans to resume exploratory drilling in the Chukchi Sea this summer, after a three-year hiatus prompted in part by one of its drill rigs running aground in the Aleutians. Oops.

12 repubs against opening Anwar.

The letter opposing drilling was signed by Republican Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick (Penn.), Dave Reichert (Wash.), Ryan Costello (Penn.), Frank LoBiondo (N.J.), Chris Smith (N.J.), Patrick Meehan (Penn.), Daniel M. Donovan, Jr. (N.Y.), Elise Stefanik (N.Y.), Mark Sanford (S.C.), Carlos Curbelo (Fla.), John J. Faso (N.Y.) and Leonard Lance (N.J.).

In it, the Republicans laid out a number of reasons why they believe drilling in the refuge is a bad idea:

"The resources beneath the Coastal Plain simply are not necessary for our nation's energy independence," they wrote. "If proven, the estimated reserves in this region would represent a small percentage of the amount of oil produced worldwide."

For oil companies interested in increasing development in the U.S. Arctic, they write, a more likely scenario would have them turning to the National Petroleum Reserve, a 23.5 million-acre area west of the refuge that is designated for development and is close to existing oil and gas infrastructure.

If Congress opened up the area to drilling, they warn, "the likelihood that lawsuits would accompany any development is high."
This wasn't the only letter sent by prominent Republicans this week. On Tuesday, a group of seven Republican luminaries, including EPA administrators under presidents Nixon, Reagan and George H. W. Bush, sent a letter of their own to the House and Senate.

HERE

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RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 9:24:52 PM   
Lucylastic


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Heres a list from Wapo about different corporations and what they "plan" to do

take it as you find it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/corporations-tax-cut-gop-tax-bill/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_tax-corporations-545pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f3dfbab0b5b0


Lots of promises to help shareholders. Two promises to hire more workers. No promises to raise wages.

By Heather Long Dec. 20, 2017

President Trump and Republicans have repeatedly sold their tax bill to the public as a way to make American businesses more competitive so companies will turn around and hire more workers and raise wages. Critics of the plan say the massive reduction in the corporate tax rate from 35 to 21 percent, among other changes favoring business, will lead to more money in the hands of shareholders.

The Washington Post looked at what America’s 20 largest companies in the Fortune 500 say about taxes. Nearly all have vocally supported the GOP bill. Many say at least some of the extra money would probably go to shareholders via higher dividends. Other popular plans for additional cash include: looking for other companies to buy and paying down debt. Only two — AT&T and CVS — have made explicit promises to hire workers. Apple and Kroger executives have made vague statements that they would probably hire more people. Not a single company has said it will raise wages, although AT&T announced a one-time special bonus for workers after Trump signs the bill. As executives analyze the final 500-page bill, here’s what they say so far about their plans.

Company plans to ...

use extra money for hiring.
use extra money for shareholders.
use extra money for investing.
Company has no specific plans.
Tax reform is not helpful to company.
AT&T
Current effective tax rate: 32.7 percent. Plans to invest $1 billion more. AT&T announced Wednesday it will give its 200,000 U.S. workers a $1,000 “special bonus” because of the tax bill, but the company stopped short of raising wages.

“AT&T is committed to invest an additional $1 billion in the United States in 2018 if a tax bill with a permanent corporate tax rate of 21 percent is signed into law. Every $1 billion in capital invested in the telecom industry domestically creates about 7,000 U.S. jobs, research shows.”

BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY
27.5 percent tax rate. CEO doesn’t think tax cuts are needed. Berkshire Hathaway chief executive Warren Buffett said in October:

“It would be good for a million shareholders of Berkshire in terms of their net returns.” But he added: “I don’t think I need a tax cut.”

APPLE
25.5 percent tax rate. Vague pledge to hire more in the United States. Apple CEO Tim Cook said in November:

“I believe that tax reform is sorely needed in this country. . . . The biggest issue with corporations is that if you earn money outside the United States, which most companies increasingly will . . . the only way you can bring it into the U.S. and invest is if you pay 40 percent [tax]. This is kind of a crazy thing to do, so what do people do? They don’t bring it to the United States. . . . In my view, it should have been fixed years ago, but let’s get it done now.”

When asked by NBC’s Lester Holt whether he expected Apple to use residuals to add more jobs, Cook said:

“Yeah, I do.”

CVS HEALTH
39 percent tax rate. Pledge to hire 3,000 more workers. CVS Health CFO David Denton said in November:

“To the degree that we have [tax] relief, there’s a lot of investments that we think we can make within our business model that can more rapidly expand our business model across the country and deliver better care and higher quality and lower cost. So we would look to take the benefit of that and invest it clearly.”

EXXON MOBIL
Negative tax rate last year, although in other years, Exxon has paid as high as 33 percent. Priority is dividends. Exxon Mobil Vice President of Investor Relations Jeffrey Woodbury said in October:

“The first things that are being funded are our dividends and our investment program. And if there’s any cash left at that point given that the corporation does not want to hold large cash reserves, it’s at that point that we will look for what the next best thing is. And maybe if we have some debt maturing, we’ll pay that debt down.”

COSTCO
34 percent tax rate. Promise to help shareholders and employees. Costco CFO Richard Galanti said earlier this month:

“I think you’ll see us do what we do well, it’s merchandising and driving business and taking care of our employees and ultimately taking care of our shareholders. . . . We don’t know what we’re going to do yet because first, we got to figure out what’s actually going to happen.”

KROGER
33 percent tax rate. Vague pledge to add more jobs and give more to shareholders. Kroger CEO W. Rodney McMullen said in November:

“We’re very excited about where the tax reform is headed. We believe it will also influence for us to continue to invest in our business, which will grow jobs. And I think what will end up happening is you’ll see us doing a balance of everything together. Some of it our shareholders will benefit from, some of it our associates will benefit from, and our customers will benefit from it as well.”

CHEVRON
The tax rate varies a lot from year to year, but has tended to be around 39 percent. Plans for higher dividends and more investment. Chevron CEO John Watson said in March:

“I strongly support tax reform. We typically have tax rates higher than the U.S. statutory rate, so we don’t keep money offshore. It’s really a decision for us of where we can profitably reinvest the dollars that we’ll be generating out of Australia as well as think about giving some of it back to shareholders in the form of higher dividends.”

WALMART
30 percent tax rate. No specific plans. Walmart CEO Doug McMillon said in November:

“We haven’t done a lot of detailed planning on it yet, but I do think something’s going to happen and I’m optimistic that a lower tax rate for individuals as well as for business will help spur the economy and drive more growth. We think the conversation around a territorial system is appropriate. Beyond that, we’ll just have to wait and see how the details work out.”

AMERISOURCEBERGEN
33 percent tax rate. No specific plans, although company generally plans to invest more and look for mergers and acquisitions. AmerisourceBergen CEO Steven Collis said in May:

“Over the longer term, we continue to approach capital deployment strategically and opportunistically and our priorities are as follows: One: invest in the business. As I mentioned earlier, we are continuing to invest in infrastructure and quality assurance processes and to enhance our services and solutions product offerings all to better serve our customers and drive organic growth. Two: strategic M&A. We are always evaluating ways we could further add to our value proposition and grow AmerisourceBergen through the addition of best-in-class and market-leading businesses. We are interested in enhancing our broad range of core capabilities to better upstream and downstream customers and build on our proven track records on M&A and success. Three: share repurchases. We are open to and have board authorization for continued buyback of AmerisourceBergen shares, and we will repurchase when we believe it is the optimal way to build shareholder value. And finally, four: dividends. We remain committed to providing shareholders with a reasonable dividend.”

GENERAL MOTORS
21 percent tax rate. No specific plans. General Motors CEO Mary Barra said earlier this month:

“We’re very supportive of tax reform, and generally the bills before Congress move in the right direction.”

MCKESSON
24 percent tax rate. No specific plans, although company has been looking for M&A opportunities. McKesson CEO John Hammergren said in October:

“We do prefer M&A [mergers and acquisitions]. But as you know, we do this in a portfolio way. We’re not afraid to do share repurchases. We talked about our share repurchase in the quarter and we clearly talked about our dividend again this press release and we talked about M&A.”

UNITEDHEALTH
40 percent tax rate. No specific plans. Company is watching health care reform. UnitedHealth CEO David Wichmann said in October:

“I would like to just underscore that our capital deployment philosophies will be consistent with what you’ve seen in the past. It’s important for us to drive strong returns and liquidity for our shareholders. You’ll continue to see our dividend move to a market rate, and we’ll be balanced about how we managed our debt positions as well.”

FORD
32 percent tax rate. No specific plans. Ford senior economist Bryan Bezold said earlier this month:

“I would say it’s too early to tell on [taxes].”

AMAZON
37.5 percent tax rate. No specific plans. Amazon CFO Brian Olsavsky said in February:

“We have a long-standing practice of not commenting on regulatory or tax matter.”

GENERAL ELECTRIC
Currently paying a negative tax rate. No specific plans. General Electric CEO John Flannery said in November:

“So, listen, I would say, I would characterize this and think of 2018 as a reset year.”

VERIZON
35 percent tax rate. No specific plans, although the company has been raising dividends. Verizon CFO Matthew Ellis said in October:

“The board of directors demonstrated our commitment to return value to our shareholders when they declared the 11th consecutive annual dividend increase last month.”

CARDINAL HEALTH
33 percent tax rate. No specific plans. Company is focused on health reform. Cardinal Health CEO George Barrett said in February:

“We generally have been a supporter of tax reform. I think we’re well-positioned broadly, and I think we’re nimble enough to continue to adapt to short-term dynamics at work. . . . If the medical device tax were brought back, that could be a negative.” [The medical device tax is not dealt with in the tax bill and is currently slated to return in 2018]

WALGREENS BOOTS ALLIANCE
23 percent tax rate. No specific plans. Walgreens Boots Alliance CEO Stefano Pessina said in January:

“So let’s see when we will have the frame of the tax, and after we will start immediately to think how we can live in this new environment.”

FANNIE MAE
Lower tax rate not helpful to company. Fannie Mae CEO Timothy Mayopoulos said in November:

“As we describe in our filing, a significant reduction in the corporate tax rate would require us to record a substantial reduction in the value of our deferred tax assets. We expect this would result in a significant net loss.” [The mortgage giant is in its 10th year of federal government control.]

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/20/2017 9:44:20 PM   
kdsub


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There is no such thing as permanent when it comes to tax law... but... I do believe we needed tax reform and I do believe in reducing the tax rate on businesses. I Just wish they would have taken more time and included the Democrats in the process. I also believe it would have been better to reduce the tax over a period of a few years so we could gauge the effect on tax income and the deficit.

I also think it was a cheap shot of Trump to remove the mandate without a new healthcare plan... people will die because it was done when the money runs out.

Lets just hope IF and I say IF the deficit explodes the Republicans are not to proud or stubborn to make the necessary changes before the tax reductions ends for the middle class.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/21/2017 12:04:46 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Yet, all you're doing is spouting the democratic talking points.

All you're doing is spouting the republican talking points.

Bye Felicia.

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Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/21/2017 12:33:14 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
These are not annual Christmas bonuses. I worked for AT&T for 34 years. They do not give bonuses unless they are in the contract.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/21/2017 6:55:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Yet, all you're doing is spouting the democratic talking points.

All you're doing is spouting the republican talking points.
Bye Felicia.


Not really. The bullshit you're spouting is wrong. It's a mischaracterization of the truth.

I'm simply pointing out the fallacy of the Democrat rhetoric. It's too bad you can't think for yourself.



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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill - 12/21/2017 7:08:02 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
There is no such thing as permanent when it comes to tax law... but... I do believe we needed tax reform and I do believe in reducing the tax rate on businesses. I Just wish they would have taken more time and included the Democrats in the process. I also believe it would have been better to reduce the tax over a period of a few years so we could gauge the effect on tax income and the deficit.


Permanence: It's true there's no such thing as permanence, but when it's written to be permanent, it's a signal that the current leadership is wanting it to be permanent and will resist changing that. Future Congresses/Presidents, obviously, can make changes, but that's a given.

Taken more time: The Democrats weren't going to work with the GOP. That's not likely to happen any time soon (and the same goes for the GOP not working with the Democrats). The GOP wanted certain things and the Democrats were unlikely to allow those things without adding stuff that is unworkable to the GOP. I don't know that there is much they could compromise on, to be honest.

Reducing over a period of years: I don't think the reductions to the corporate rates would have the same net impact had they been phased in. Plus, if you really believe the cuts are just, why wouldn't you cut right to them instead of working towards them?

quote:

I also think it was a cheap shot of Trump to remove the mandate without a new healthcare plan... people will die because it was done when the money runs out.


People won't die just because there is no individual mandate.. OMG. The sky is not going to fall because we don't have an individual mandate or if the ACA withers and dies.

quote:

Lets just hope IF and I say IF the deficit explodes the Republicans are not to proud or stubborn to make the necessary changes before the tax reductions ends for the middle class.
Butch


What would the "necessary changes" include?

I would love to see spending drop precipitously. But, I'm in the camp that spending is too high, and disagree with those who say we don't have enough revenue.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 100
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