jlf1961
Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Well, let me help you out, Jif.
I just scanned the beginning of your post, but here's just one miss to start with:
There are SIX DIFFERENT "Herod"s in the NT.
And none were king when this particular census was ordered, and specifically, the one that allegedly ordered the massacre of the innocents was already dead.
And again, since Joseph was not a Roman, the census and subsequent tax did not apply to him anyway.
You see, under Roman law, you either had to be born to a Roman family, or made a citizen by decree of the Emperor, or by petition of the Roman governor of the region you were living in, and that was a reward for doing something impressive for the Empire, you know, turn in a rebel leader, save a Roman's life etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I've read material and watched programs, several, that claim that a man named Jesus...never existed. In all of recorded Roman history, the name Jesus Christ was never written.
Some life-long scholars tell us that the Romans wrote the bible to rule with a velvet glove rather than an iron fist.
It began in 70 AD some 40 years after the alleged life of christ, making it much 'easier' to get the prediction up until then, correct. Then the bible never directly quotes a man named Jesus.
And yes, the 'story' of Jesus was easily plagiarized from several other similar historical figures all enjoying the same life and suffering betrayal and execution...all also the arising from the dead.
Christianity thus, had a very long and shaky start.
The only problem with using Roman records is that the Romans did not consider the people living in the territories Roman, so they did not count.
However, the Jewish historian Josephus did refer to Jesus in two accounts of his historic writings.
quote:
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.
quote:
But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.
But these accounts bring up some interesting questions concerning Jesus and the crucifixion.
The Romans were great practitioners of this torture, and with the exception of the account of Jesus, men lasted for up to a week crucified.
Secondly, the Romans would not let a crucified person be removed from the crosses until their bodies had decayed to the point of no longer being able to actually hang on the cross, as a way to shame the dead.
Finally, Jesus was taken before the Roman governor for punishment, who would have had no authority over religious criminals, that was left to the Jewish priests to decide, and the punishment for the crime of heresy was stoning.
Now, contrary to popular rightest myth, there is a large group of both Muslims and Jews that believe Jesus actually existed, but was not the actual son of god, but a prophet.
(Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47)
The case of Jesus with God is like the case of Adam. He created him from dust, and then He said to him, “Be!” and he came into being. (Quran, 3:59)
“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses....” (Quran, 3:49)
But then there is one enigmatic verse:
...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)
Which is the basis for the prophet to declare that "the children of the book" are the chosen of Allah.
The children of the book being Jews, Christians and Muslims.
_____________________________
Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?
You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.
Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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