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RE: Israel is "now at war" - 1/30/2024 6:36:35 AM

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Israeli forces kill three Palestinian fighters in West Bank hospital raid.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68137050

Israeli forces have killed three militants inside a hospital in Jenin, in the occupied West Bank.

CCTV footage showed members of an undercover unit disguised as medics and other civilians making their way through a corridor with rifles raised.

The Israeli military said the militants were hiding in the hospital, and that one was about to carry out an attack. Nah or the intel proof would have been shared and out. Israel was simply caught on camera carrying out more war crimes. I have lost count myself.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 1/30/2024 8:01:31 PM

JVoV

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Dead terrorists. Ok then.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 1/31/2024 7:18:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedsdesires

Israeli forces kill three Palestinian fighters in West Bank hospital raid.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68137050

Israeli forces have killed three militants inside a hospital in Jenin, in the occupied West Bank.

CCTV footage showed members of an undercover unit disguised as medics and other civilians making their way through a corridor with rifles raised.

The Israeli military said the militants were hiding in the hospital, and that one was about to carry out an attack. Nah or the intel proof would have been shared and out. Israel was simply caught on camera carrying out more war crimes. I have lost count myself.

I just think about the thousands of Israeli and Palestinian lives saved by the death of these terrorists.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 1/31/2024 5:41:12 PM

JVoV

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I think the attitudes of Americans is quite different from that of Europeans. It's not that we don't want to see a peaceful resolution or a free Palestinian state. But the tactics used by Hamas are barbaric and cannot be rewarded. Having taken American citizens hostage, I think our government's response has been extremely generous.

But we know there is more going on than what makes the news. Biden has to be extremely careful here and his response has to be measured, even though there is pressure on him from both sides.

But the American people are losing patience, with 3 of our servicemen killed because of this war. And I think I need not remind anyone that it is an election year here. That could easily factor into the American response in the coming months.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/2/2024 10:01:51 AM

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Sometimes, I just LOVE the UK.

UK could recognize Palestinian state before any deal with Israel, says David Cameron

The UK has the balls to do what the US should have done 20 years ago. The recognition of a Palestinian state in the West Bank would be a death blow to HAMAS in Gaza, and the PA (or other newly formed Palestinian Government) would govern both the West Bank, and Gaza.

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RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/5/2024 4:20:23 AM

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But we haven't. Not sure why that is. Gaza is just a hole in the ground these days or one big mass grave if you think about it.
I hope you two JV and MJ are still not falling for all Israeli lies?

Authorities have identified a total of 274 soldiers and 859 non-soldiers killed during the brutal assault. The latter figure includes 57 Israel Police officers and 38 local security officers. It is unclear which of these individuals were on duty when killed. Removing those victims leaves a figure of 764 civilians.

Authorities have yet to provide an official breakdown on the victims. But the Walla news site has published data by age and gender for 756 of the murdered civilians for which information is available.

One of them was a baby under the age of one year — 10-month-old Mila Cohen, killed with her father and grandmother.

According to data by Haaretz, a Bedouin woman at the tail end of her pregnancy was shot in the abdomen while heading to the hospital to give birth, where doctors delivered the baby, but failed to save it.

Additionally, 12 children aged 1 to 9 — 10 boys and two girls — were murdered in the Hamas massacres, according to Walla.

Between the ages of 10 and 19, 36 civilians were murdered, 25 of them male and 11 female.

The largest number of confirmed civilian victims, 421, were in the age group of 20-40. Among them were 259 men and 162 women.

There were 161 victims between the ages of 41 and 64 — 102 men and 59 women.

Walla reported that 100 victims were aged 65-80, including 69 women and 31 men.

And 25 victims were over the age of 80 — 18 men and seven women.

Again, I have made my feelings clear on what I think of Hamas. Stories of 40 children beheading and raped were allowed to run on media websites around the world despite being utter lies.

Thanks to the actions of Israeli Hamas will soon recruit another 100,000 for their cause.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/6/2024 7:21:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedsdesires
Thanks to the actions of Israeli Hamas will soon recruit another 100,000 for their cause.

Thanks to the actions of HAMAS, Hamas will soon recruit another 100,000 for their cause.

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RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/7/2024 12:47:01 PM

JVoV

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I think MJ and I believe in the same end, but it's a chicken/egg thing on how to get there. Whereas he says make two states and then Hamas will lose power, I say obliterate Hamas and then a two-state solution would be safer. Oh! This is where we compromise to find a solution to make us both happy. I've got it! We send Trump & MJT to Gaza. I'll even throw in Ted Cruz and Kinsey Graham.

Iran needs to be taken out of the equation completely though. OPEC still has way too much power over decisions concerning the national security interests of the US, bringing me back to the whole "go green" thing.

Everything feels like a circular argument that's been going on for decades, with no end in sight.

< Message edited by JVoV -- 2/7/2024 12:53:22 PM >

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/7/2024 3:39:04 PM

JVoV

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Lindsay Graham. Ugh I can't type.

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/8/2024 9:32:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I think MJ and I believe in the same end, but it's a chicken/egg thing on how to get there. Whereas he says make two states and then Hamas will lose power, I say obliterate Hamas and then a two-state solution would be safer. Oh! This is where we compromise to find a solution to make us both happy. I've got it! We send Trump & MJT to Gaza. I'll even throw in Ted Cruz and Kinsey Graham.

Actually, my position is, post 10/7/23, obliterate HAMAS, and create two states so HAMAS (or any HAMAS-like organization) will never regain support.

Every day HAMAS does not surrender, they put thousands of Palestinian lives in jeopardy. HAMAS needs to:

1. Immediately lay down all arms and surrender
2. Release all hostages immediately
3. This will enable Israel to stop all military action
4. Israel and then boot Netanyahu and immediately recognize a Palestinian state
5. The US and UK should work with Abbas to declare a Palestinian state with its capitol in Ramallah
6. HAMAS members need to continue dying and rotting in hell or completely surrender. Their choice..

< Message edited by MasterJaguar01 -- 2/8/2024 9:40:32 AM >

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/9/2024 7:46:48 AM

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Israel's intent was always to bomb Gaza back to the stone age and take full control of Gaza. They are just about there. If Hamas started of as a political party those days are many days long gone. Israel is responsible for the rise of Hamas. They funded and used them to ebb away at the PA and also to keep both those groups in conflict hence diluting the power of the PA.

Israel assassinating their own prime ministers tells you everything The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, the fifth prime minister of Israel, took place on 4 November 1995 (12 Marcheshvan 5756 on the Hebrew calendar) at 21:30, at the end of a rally in support of the Oslo Accords at the Kings of Israel Square in Tel Aviv. The assailant was Yigal Amir, an Israeli law student and ultranationalist who radically opposed Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's peace initiative, particularly the signing of the Oslo Accords.

I find it puzzling why some people call Hamas scum of the earth when Israeli have shown themselves to be 25 times worse murdering 30,000 women, children, men, and a dozen Hamas. Injury wise they are 100-200 times worse injuring 75,000. Levelling all of Gaza 50% of it is gone, 85% population displaced. Israel deliberately targets civilians and civilian infrastructure. That is not factoring in Israel pop 8 million and Gaza 2.3 million.

Chicken and egg argument simply look at the land grabs, none in Gaza yes I know should have mention that last time), and the death and murder invoked by Jews on Palestinians. But I am not using that as a chicken egg argument, nor what historically came before and what has yet to come.

I don't know how you would get rid of Hamas? I am open to suggestions. Hamas are just like all the other mad groups. When you become radicalized it is nigh on impossible to reverse that. As is the case with the current Israeli government.

An additional problem is when groups like Hamas get power they will never give it up, like all mad dictators.

If you ignore all of Israel war crimes, which I wont, then another tact they have been using is to cut the head of the snake but they have found out each of these groups, still functioning, had someone else to step in and lead. On that issue keep going till the end of the heads.

Israel is free to join the arab coalition against Iran. Do not forget what the UK and the US did to Iran. Iran had no idea Hamas was going to do this. US, Russia you name the old powers are past and current masters at using proxies or whoring influence. Iran is doing no different plus they have been under brutal American sanctions for decades whilst the rest of the world wanted to and wants to lift them.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/9/2024 5:46:56 PM

JVoV

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I believe Israel's intent has always been to defend Israeli citizens. The mere existence of a Jewish State gets under the skin of many Muslim extremists in the area. I believe the Palestinians are being used as pawns mostly.

Israel expanded it's borders in the late 60s and for some reason, the international community letit happen. I'm as upset about that as I am about the Louisiana Purchase, which is to say not very upset at all, because it was before i was even born. I can't change history and there are things that are going on now that need to change.

I don't think Israel had a peaceful existence before the borders changed and it doesn't seem to go by the US's Manifest Destiny idea, expanding every few years.

Im not against the Palestinians, I'm against the terrorist actions of Hamas. Unfortunately, the citizens suffer the most when their leaders choose war.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/9/2024 7:14:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedsdesires
Israel's intent was always to bomb Gaza back to the stone age and take full control of Gaza.

This is nonsense. Pure nonsense. Israel wanted nothing to do with Gaza. Netanyahu was content with Hamas running things in Gaza. It helped is narrative the the Palestinians were incapable of self-governing and therefore unworthy of having their own state.

quote:

Israel is responsible for the rise of Hamas.

Misleading and very inaccurate. Israel's policy of continued land grabbing and settlements, delegitimized the PA and contributed to the rise of Hamas to be sure.

quote:

They funded and used them to ebb away at the PA and also to keep both those groups in conflict hence diluting the power of the PA.

Empirically false. Israel did NOT fund Hamas. Israel allowed Qatari funds to flow to Hamas.

quote:

Israel assassinating their own prime ministers tells you everything

It might tell you something if it were true. But it's not. Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a right wing nut job. Not the state of Israel.

quote:

Israel deliberately targets civilians and civilian infrastructure.

This is a complete lie.

quote:

I don't know how you would get rid of Hamas? I am open to suggestions. Hamas are just like all the other mad groups. When you become radicalized it is nigh on impossible to reverse that. As is the case with the current Israeli government.

An additional problem is when groups like Hamas get power they will never give it up, like all mad dictators.

Simple, you create a Palestinian state, starting with the West Bank with a reformed version of the PA, and you boost it economically. That destroys Hamas in a hurry.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/13/2024 9:24:30 AM

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Empirically false. Israel did NOT fund Hamas. Israel allowed Qatari funds to flow to Hamas.
Your logic is worse than mine given that you said Hamas was responsible for killing 30,000 Palestinian children and women, men and a dozen Hamas. I am pretty sure it was Israel.

“Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile cease-fire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip,” actual suitcases of cash. Borrell also described Israel as having "created Hamas", but immediately continued saying that "yes, Hamas was financed by Israel to weaken the Palestinian Authority"

The funding of Hamas will be a lot more complicated than the odd snippet or two I add in, or you.
Unfortunately Israel do deliberately target civilians and infrastructure. There will be a few reasons for that. None of them good. One is so the Palestinians increase pressure on Hamas and that is the best of none of the good reasons.
With Yitzhak Rabin it certainly wasn't a lone gun man gone ideologically nuts. There are a few conspiracy theories regarding what happened and why.

Hamas were prepared to accept, at least temporary at the worse, a 2 state solution in 2018.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/why-hamas-attacked-when-it-did

I don't think you understand how a lot of Israelis think. And that is many of their politicians from the top down to civilians. They view Palestinians as less than human. Infact many of them deny, including their politicians, that such a thing as a Palestinian exists.

Simple, you create a Palestinian state, starting with the West Bank with a reformed version of the PA, and you boost it economically. its a plan but remember the Palestinians will be conceding a lot with it.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/14/2024 12:51:29 AM

JVoV

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When a criminal act is committed, the offender we can be charged with any deaths that occur in the act or in the process of arrest. See, someone committing a criminal act, especially one of violence anyway, is the bad guy. Meaning the ones that apprehend them is the 'good' guy. That is logic and why Hamas should be held responsible for the deaths of Palestinians when Israel reacts. Hamas terrorists CHOOSE to hide among the most vulnerable crowd th3y can find to be safe. Sure, Israel maybe could wait for a time when the terrorists are among fewer people, but that isn't always possible because of how the terrorists hide like rsts. This tactic also encourages sympathy for the Palestinian cause.

Hamas terrorists combine the suicide bomber with suicide by cop mentalities.

The goal is to make Israel look bad for pursuing the perpetrators of heinous crimes. I'd say it's working.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/14/2024 4:10:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedsdesires

Empirically false. Israel did NOT fund Hamas. Israel allowed Qatari funds to flow to Hamas.
Your logic is worse than mine given that you said Hamas was responsible for killing 30,000 Palestinian children and women, men and a dozen Hamas. I am pretty sure it was Israel.

You would be wrong. It's Hamas. All 30,000 would be alive and peacefully in their homes if it were not for the actions of Hamas. Hamas killed each one of them by launching a deadly terrorist attack and then hiding among them. Everyone knows this (except you)

quote:

“Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile cease-fire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip,” actual suitcases of cash. Borrell also described Israel as having "created Hamas", but immediately continued saying that "yes, Hamas was financed by Israel to weaken the Palestinian Authority"

Qatari cash = Qatari funding. Not Israeli funding. Simple as that.

quote:

Unfortunately Israel do deliberately target civilians and infrastructure.

Please cite evidence of this claim.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/18/2024 6:53:01 AM

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You are not using the chicken and the egg argument. You are using false logic, and badly at that with me. You have said because Hamas killed 1200 then Israel can unleash war crimes on a level never seen since ww2. I adjust for population, like for like, so to speak.

If you want to even attempt that argument with me Israel should not be there. Renders aything you say next null and void.

Qatari cash = Qatari funding. Not Israeli funding. Simple as that Israel allowed the funds to flow. And the did so with a specific plan in mind. Rise of Hamas with the core aim to weaken the PA.

Unfortunately Israel do deliberately target civilians and infrastructure. Two do?
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel-targets-infrastructure-in-gaza-to-ramp-up-civilian-pressure-on-hamas-report-claims#:~:text=A%20recent%20investigative%20report%20finds,Hebrew%2Dlanguage%20outlet%20Local%20Call.

Again there are few core aims here. One is in the hope the citizens of Gaza will overthrow Hamas. Its like collective punishment in many ways, which Israel is also doing and has done for decades.

Many Israelis, certainly the current right of Hitler regime, view the Palestinians as less than human.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/19/2024 3:01:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedsdesires
You are not using the chicken and the egg argument. You are using false logic, and badly at that with me. You have said because Hamas killed 1200 then Israel can unleash war crimes on a level never seen since ww2. I adjust for population, like for like, so to speak.

No... You completely misunderstand. (And I mean COMPLETELY)
I have not said that at all.
This is not revenge one hundred fold.

What I am saying is HAMAS (after killing 1200 people (and raping, let's not forget the infant beheading), HIDES among a civilian population.

It is the "HIDES AMONG THE CIVILIAN POPULATION" part that makes HAMAS responsible for every civilian death. Every day they continue to hold hostages and hide among civilians, they are killing hundreds more.

If HAMAS surrendered, or attempted to battle the IDF AWAY from civilians (as the Geneva convention dictates), they would have been captured or killed and saved hundreds of thousands of Palestinian lives. They care FAR about their own lives than that of a single Palestinian civilian.

quote:

Qatari cash = Qatari funding. Not Israeli funding. Simple as that Israel allowed the funds to flow. And the did so with a specific plan in mind. Rise of Hamas with the core aim to weaken the PA.

100% True
Also 100% NOT Israeli funding of HAMAS. It is Qatari funding.

quote:

Unfortunately Israel do deliberately target civilians and infrastructure. Two do?
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

Fortunately, Israel does NOT deliberately target civilians. HAMAS DOES.

Your Amnesty Intl, article makes this point.

From your link:

"“Amnesty International is calling on Hamas and other armed groups to urgently release all civilian hostages, and to immediately stop firing indiscriminate rockets. There can be no justification for the deliberate killing of civilians under any circumstances,” said Agnès Callamard."

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/22/2024 10:07:13 AM

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You need help. Are you beyond that? I think you are.
You look at every comment I have made and you switch those countries, or states. I will say the exact same thing.

You are free too look at any ruling you wish. Feel free to quote em all and your feral jew.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Would you like to start there?

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/23/2024 12:53:41 PM

JVoV

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Netenyahu finally presented a plan for Gaza after the war, which includes Israel having military control indefinitely, though the area would be governed by Palestinians with no terrorist affiliation or agenda against Israel.

The plan is light on specifics, probably so as not to piss anybody off yet. Typical politician stuff, really. But I think Benji has to walk the line very carefully right now.

But really does this possible future seem mich different than a year ago? Did Hamas accomplish anything? Or has all the pain and suffering been for nothing?

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

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