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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 12:17:19 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

there are comparable passages in the bible, yet no one feels the need to start quoting from it.


It also wouldn't be meaningful since there is no world-wide, state-wide, or region-wide group or Bible totting extremists acting upon them and killing people while they shout them while piloting a plane into a building, walking into a restaurant with a bomb strapped to them, driving a car filled with explosives into a hotel, or encouraging their children to blow themselves up in the name of the god sited in the Bible. 

(in reply to fullofgrace)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 12:26:35 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't think there's a lot of muslims in this state. (South Carolina)
They're real big on Pork Barbeque here and you can often be driving down the road through smoke wafting across from a "Pig Pickin" in this area.
North Carolina is like that too.
"Carolina Barbeque!" MMMMMmmmM! Good!
If I ever had muslim neighbors I wouldn't have them for long.
I'd be stinking up this place cooking bacon everyday. ("AHHHH! Alah Akbar!")
I like the way Larry the Cable Guy explains it; "I got nothing against muslims, I hope everyone of them gets a wicker basket full of snakes for Christmas!" lol
"And it's against their "religion" to drink alchohol so I'd want to invite them to a pig barbeque and introduce them to my friend Jack Daniels!"
I love Larry the Cable Guy!



That is the essence of prejudice. Don't wait and see what the family that moves in next to you is like as human beings.

I have muslim heighbours on one side. They have been great folks since day one. We lend each other tools and a hand now and then.
We have blacks from various countries. No problems.
We have whites. No problem.
But we have some ignorant white trash on the block as well. The only ones so far that have pissed off the neighbourhood.

It's just pure luck if your neighbours are good folks. Color and religion has nothing to do with it.

I work with a wide variety of races and religions. We have a real international blend at our business. Same thing there. The lazy or troublesome ones come in all varieties. One or two muslims take quick prayer breaks, some of them don't. As far as trying to convert folks, the mormons and christians at work are the only ones that have handed out tracts and put up religious stuff.


< Message edited by Kedikat -- 8/11/2006 12:30:05 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 3:02:30 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		meatcleaver, yes you could counter with atrocities from a number of countries but this is mostly religious fanatics waging this kind of constant barrage against others. 

I watched one of the videos of a captive being beheaded and it was one of the most sickening things I've ever seen.  I can't imagine the state of the "soul" of a person who could inflict that on another human being and remain unmoved.  Maybe thats the problem with war as done by modern countries.  We bomb from afar and don't see the suffering inflicted on the victims of it. 

I'm getting more in line with those who say shut down immigration, at least for awhile.  Other countries don't have a problem doing this when they feel the need.  Others put limits on immigrants once in the country.  My understanding is that France lets Muslims come in but once there they must use Christian names for their children.  Amazing that a country will stand by their own heritage and refuse to let the newcomers set the tone for the country.  France has tended to be a place where you may come but you will live as the French do and not impose your country of origin mores on them.  There is nothing wrong with that and they have every right to set those limits on people moving there.


(in reply to fullofgrace)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 3:53:38 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		If an ID system is going to be allowed, all should have the same ID with the same information basis.
muslim, christian, aetheist, etc..if one is to be noted in the ID then all should be. Anything singling out an individual or group is not what eagalitarian societies are about.
If you want to institute anything to increase security in a democratic equality based society, all must submit to it equally.
You can say " But it is X part of society that is causing the problem". Well tomorrow it may be Y. Or the rest of the alphabet may use the special circumstance imposed on  X to single them out for unrelated issues and treatment.
And the ones doing the IDing and controlling the system are the ones to be watched the closest. It is a frightening power.


(in reply to sharainks)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 4:07:04 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fullofgrace

there are comparable passages in the bible, yet no one feels the need to start quoting from it.

it's funny...i'm white and i was born into a protestant family, but i don't have to spend all my time proving i'm not the kkk. yet people who are of arabic descent and born into a muslim family have to spend all their time proving they're not al qaeda to make everybody happy.


Very, very well said.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to fullofgrace)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 4:09:42 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

If an ID system is going to be allowed, all should have the same ID with the same information basis.
muslim, christian, aetheist, etc..if one is to be noted in the ID then all should be. Anything singling out an individual or group is not what eagalitarian societies are about.
If you want to institute anything to increase security in a democratic equality based society, all must submit to it equally.


I agree.  However, I also think we should have the right to privacy of religion.  If we follow a certain religion, we should not have to announce it to the world.  We should have the right to keep it a secret if we so desire.  After all, many of the members of this board desire to keep their identity under wraps in regards to WIITWD.  The right to not reveal religious preference should be no different.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to Kedikat)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 4:17:27 PM   
jackod


Posts: 66
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		We are in 3 war,we should do everything possible to win,inc.profiling,respectfully,jck

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 4:19:54 PM   
jackod


Posts: 66
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		agreed,sincerely,jack

(in reply to Kedikat)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 4:36:12 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jackod

We are in 3 war,we should do everything possible to win,inc.profiling,respectfully,jck


So you would have no problem revealing intimate details of your life that you would rather not reveal if the government believed your "type" could potentially be terrorists?  To some their religion is an intimate detail that they would rather not divulge.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to jackod)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 7:42:14 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

In short it says:
22% of those polled would not want to have a Muslim as a neighbor
34% think Muslims in American support al-Qaeda
49% think Muslim-Americans are loyal to America
39% think Muslims in American (Americans or not) should carry a special I.D.
39% say they have prejudiece against Muslims
44% think Muslims hold religious views that are too extreme



Whata scam....  There's no polling data from those of us who think this whole ''War on terror and the boogeyman''   is an utter farce. ; }



 - R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 8:45:29 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

there are comparable passages in the bible, yet no one feels the need to start quoting from it.


It also wouldn't be meaningful since there is no world-wide, state-wide, or region-wide group or Bible totting extremists acting upon them and killing people while they shout them while piloting a plane into a building, walking into a restaurant with a bomb strapped to them, driving a car filled with explosives into a hotel, or encouraging their children to blow themselves up in the name of the god sited in the Bible. 


I don't know Merc....

The bible finds it's okay to murder a cheating spouse and his or her partner (look out poly folks); extreme "pro-life" activists have killed and threatened to kill a number of abortion doctors in the name of Christianity... terrorizing enough doctors to make finding an abortion doctor very difficult.  Plus, (but not limited to) the biggest terrorism act that Christianity has to offer.... if you don't believe in Christianity, you will be banished to hell for all of eternity.

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/11/2006 8:47:20 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 8:56:23 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

sharainks:  I watched one of the videos of a captive being beheaded and it was one of the most sickening things I've ever seen.  I can't imagine the state of the "soul" of a person who could inflict that on another human being and remain unmoved. 

  I really wanted to stay away from this thread, but THIS got to Me.  You are offended by some ugly footage, and you'll destroy human rights for anyone of Arab descent?  or is it all Muslims you'll hate?   Where will you draw your nasty little line?

Tell Me, miss, did you feel the same revulsion watching the footage of the Nazis murdering 1000s of concentration camp prisoners a day?  OH, you didn't see it?  Its shown at the Holocaust Museums in Chicago, Washington DC, NY...all of which are not so far from you.  If you ever bothered to watch those films, then by all of your logic, we should immediately hunt down and deport anyone of German, Polish, Austrian, Italian etc. descent from the USA.  Its the same issue.  Horrific atrocities.  And if ONE German did it, they ALL did, right?   Well you said that about the persons you love to hate today, miss.  But why aren't you clamoring to exclude anyone who's ancestry includes persons from the WWII Axis powers?  Hmmmm?

God I hate racism.  And the racism of scared ignorant people is the most hateful.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to sharainks)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 9:04:29 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		meatcleaver said (tho this post is really to Merc): 
quote:

You could counter all those incidents and stats with comparable American and Israeli atrocities and claim muslim reaction is rational by fighting terror with terror. However, the problem you have Merc is that you are defining the violence in a very narrow way and one that is unrecognizable to your apparent enemy who see this perceived war as much wider and far more violently perpetrated by the west. In the perameters of your enemy, they have been counting their dead for at least 30 years before the Americans and westerners have been counting their dead.


Well said.  But in fact, they've been counting their dead for about 500 years.  Remember the Crusades?   Don't doubt for a moment that the history of Islam fails to remember that when their religious/political autocracy effectively ruled the Western world...and yes, they did, from about 900 AD to about 1350, Christians, bearing the cross, and raping, pillaging and robbing their way from France to what is now Israel, destroyed a 1000 years of their civilization.  Islam does NOT inherently call for religious war, any more than Christianity does.  But both have been well and often perverted to that end.

Merc, you can't take the high road here.  ALL Genocide is evil.  ALL religious fanaticism is evil.  And you can't justify hatred because of what a small number of religious fanatics do in the misbegotten name of religion...or if you do, then you better answer for Torquemada, today because he destroyed about 10,000 of my distant ancestors in his own version of 9-11.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 9:20:55 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		"The bomb which severely injured Emily Lyons and killed Birmingham police officer Robert Sanderson is yet another tragic example of domestic terrorism. The hatred and anger which fuels this terrorism is insprired by the anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-government rhetoric of the overlapping militia movements and the so-called "pro-life" movement. As Robert Sanderson was buried on February 2, 1998, letters were received by news agencies claiming responsibility for the bombing. The letters were signed by "The Army of God" - the same group which claimed responsibility for two of the Atlanta bombings which occurred a year ago (the Sandy Springs abortion clinic bombing and the bombing of a predominantly gay nightclub)."

Here is The Army Of God website if you'd like to view it. WARNING It is graphic in nature!!!

http://www.armyofgod.com/

We have our own home grown Christian variety of terrorists as well and I foresee their numbers growing as well as their violence. In any religion where hate and intolerance is taught it is unavoidable.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to fullofgrace)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 9:40:41 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

there are comparable passages in the bible, yet no one feels the need to start quoting from it.


It also wouldn't be meaningful since there is no world-wide, state-wide, or region-wide group or Bible totting extremists acting upon them and killing people while they shout them while piloting a plane into a building, walking into a restaurant with a bomb strapped to them, driving a car filled with explosives into a hotel, or encouraging their children to blow themselves up in the name of the god sited in the Bible. 


Are you kidding? There have been and still are many Christian Militia groups responsible for atrocities.  Look at the Tarok militias actions in Yelwa in Nigeria where Christians killed hundreds of Muslims, or the Phalangist groups responsible for the massacres of refugees in Beirut.  Just because it gets reported less doesn't mean it isn't happening.

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 9:57:12 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I don't want them "tagged" I want them deported.
That Hillary Clinton can be one mean bitch.
If she'll promise to deport muslims and all illegal aliens like she said she would she'll get my vote!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 8/11/2006 9:58:34 PM >

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 10:49:58 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		An argument could be made that the US government has used its own religious values of Christianity to wage war in the distant and not so distant past.  It's scary to even think about government  believing in the end of days theory, and plotting to 'see it through'.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/11/2006 10:51:44 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		One very disturbing thing about the foiled plot is that the suspects all seem to be British citizens--or at least many of them.  That obviously complicates the terrorism issue tremendously.

I still believe that Bush administration overemphasizes the terror threat for its own cynical purposes, but I have to admit that the problem is going to get vastly more difficult to contain if British citizens start blowing up planes for al Qaeda.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/12/2006 2:37:12 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't want them "tagged" I want them deported.
That Hillary Clinton can be one mean bitch.
If she'll promise to deport muslims and all illegal aliens like she said she would she'll get my vote!


What about legal muslim immigrants? what about white american muslims? What about americans who cause death and destruction every day? How many muggers, murderers, rapists, corporate criminals are muslim?
In the overall crap of everyday life all over the planet, muslims are a tiny fraction of it.

When it comes to shipping out all those that the majority find troublesome, who knows if any one of us may be on a boat to somewhere.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? - 8/12/2006 4:19:41 AM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		Emperor you are way off base on the meaning of what I said.  Nowhere did I say deport anyone.  My post was meant to state that countries have the right to expect new immigrants to abide by the rules of the country they are moving to.  How you got what you got out of it is beyond me. 

Did I say one word about hating anyone?  NO!  As a matter of fact maybe you need to go back and read your post and mine and see which spews hatred.

(in reply to Kedikat)
Profile   Post #: 40
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