The gift of submission.

The gift of submission. (Full Version)

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masterzone -> The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 4:52:54 PM)
Right off the bat I am going to upset some of you but this is how I feel. The gift of submission is garbage. Giving your submission and domination is a selfish act. Before you have a knee jerk reaction please read the whole thing. I have been told by a lot of subs that giving them selves over to me is a gift. Really, then me being a Dom over them should be a gift as well. The fact is that its not, I do this to please my self, yes I care about them and about there needs but it’s about what I want. (I am talking as a Dom not as a master or owner) The thing is that both as a sub and a Dom, having been on both sides, if what I am doing does not please me then why am I doing it, yes when I was a slave I was there to please my mistress, if she was happy then I was happy. I want the same things from my girls and never think they are doing this as a gift. If they are then they are not doing it for the right reasons. If they are not getting anything out of there time with me then really they need to be with someone else. I would love to know what others think. Be well and safe Master Michael L. Hook A Brother in The Circle: A Los Angeles leather family

cuddleheart50 -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 5:00:55 PM)
I never thought it was a gift...

indigo302 -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 5:09:53 PM)
My thoughts: Submission is not a gift. It is who I am - a part of who I am. Just as I am a woman, a mother, a daughter, etc - I am a submissive. I don't see the gift in there...unless it is a gift I give myself, by allowing myself to act on that part of me. shrugs It just is. indigo

catize -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 5:11:49 PM)
Sticks a big red bow on my head and stands under a neon sign: >>>>Git yer gifty right here!<<< LOL

cr0ckdile -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 5:12:55 PM)
masterzone, I'd go beyond that, and say that love is selfish, to satisfy our needs and desires. If you "sacrifice" something for a loved one, it isn't really a sacrifice, because your love for him/her is a higher value than that which was "sacrificed." By extention, submissives don't actually sacrifice their needs because their psychological/biological drive to please is of greater value than their own immediate fulfillment.

NastyDaddy -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 5:30:45 PM)
Literally you are on the mark for Topping bottoms in play/scenes... but there is a distinction between 'gift' and 'use'. In your stated context the 'gift' is only being loaned to you temporarily... just as you are in the play/scene only temporarily yourself in order to get what you want from it. The 'gift' is has more to do with a 24/7 environment to facilitate, manage and control the 'gift' on a more permanent basis. If you are given the 'gift' as opposed to 'temporarily using', perhaps it would clearly define itself to you better. Until you own a sub/slave I don't understand how you can justifiably Top a soap box and generalize so one-dimensionaly... but then again your rationale may not be to educate, since you've already stated your intentions..... in Topping the soap box, it may be that your temporary loanable 'use' resources wane and the feedback from non-play/scene bottoms has you generalizing in frustration of your needs lacking? I see it more as an apples and oranges scenario... but in the same token, who says you can't make orange twanged applesauce? What the gift really is will naturally depend on the people in the relationship who are defining it wouldn't you say... or do you think one-size-fits-all, it's all just simply binary, or a black or white concept? Welcome to the message board.

CreativeDominant -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 5:33:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterzone Right off the bat I am going to upset some of you but this is how I feel. The gift of submission is garbage. Giving your submission and domination is a selfish act. Before you have a knee jerk reaction please read the whole thing. I have been told by a lot of subs that giving them selves over to me is a gift. Really, then me being a Dom over them should be a gift as well. The fact is that its not, I do this to please my self, yes I care about them and about there needs but it’s about what I want. (I am talking as a Dom not as a master or owner) The thing is that both as a sub and a Dom, having been on both sides, if what I am doing does not please me then why am I doing it, yes when I was a slave I was there to please my mistress, if she was happy then I was happy. I want the same things from my girls and never think they are doing this as a gift. If they are then they are not doing it for the right reasons. If they are not getting anything out of there time with me then really they need to be with someone else. I would love to know what others think. Be well and safe Master Michael L. Hook A Brother in The Circle: A Los Angeles leather family Welcome to the club. I've never thought of submission as any more of a gift than my dominance. But then, as valuable as I think I am...and I have a healthy self-esteem...I've never been conceited enough to think of myself as any kind of a gift to anyone. I tend to look at other people the same way, no matter how much I love them. A gift always implies a certain amount of indebtedness on the part of the recipient to the giver...and often thought of in that way by the giver, even though the definition of gift is fairly clear in stating that anything given to another as a gift is only a gift if NOTHING is expected in return. Since people do expect things from their partner...sometimes rightfully, sometimes not...then choosing to be with someone is choosing to be with someone, it is not giving them the "gift" of yourself or any part of your character.

juliaoceania -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 5:53:07 PM)
I do not think it matters what others think, probably most will agree with you, but some will not, including myself.. we all have our own view of life, love, submission, and dominance.. it really only matters that we are happy with ourselves and secure with our own views

KindredTotem -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:02:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not think it matters what others think, probably most will agree with you, but some will not, including myself.. we all have our own view of life, love, submission, and dominance.. it really only matters that we are happy with ourselves and secure with our own views Very well put julia. This lifestyle is a lot of what you and your partner makes of it.

popeye1250 -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:11:46 PM)
Hmmm, that could be answered in a number of different ways.

Chaingang -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:22:49 PM)
Where is LA with the 1001 line list of the other times this has come up?

KatyLied -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:25:53 PM)
What's next? Please let it be one of my favorites. Pubic shaving tips.

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:45:03 PM)
The gift is not in submission or Dominance..the gift is when you find the mate that you have been seeking, your other half, the mate that has you feel like you have finally come home....Tempting

juliaoceania -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:46:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub The gift is not in submission or Dominance..the gift is when you find the mate that you have been seeking, your other half, the mate that has you feel like you have finally come home....Tempting I agree, which is also why I think life itself is a gift, but then again I could be wrong

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:47:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang Where is LA with the 1001 line list of the other times this has come up? LA was at the gym, then the pool, then the hot tub, then getting dinner, then shopping for next weeeks dinners and NOW is happy to hand out all prior CM references to this topic. Oh and I'm thinking it's been awhile since we had a good thread on "limits and their meaning" http://www.collarchat.com/m_417971/mpage_2/key_gift/tm.htm#418195 submission is a gift!!!??? http://www.collarchat.com/m_285542/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#285542 If submission is a 'gift.' what's dominance? http://www.collarchat.com/m_199872/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#199872 The Gift you give to yourself http://www.collarchat.com/m_195087/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#195087 A gift??? http://www.collarchat.com/m_137582/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#137582 The Domly Gift http://www.collarchat.com/m_135667/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#135667 Why do so many view submission as a gift? http://www.collarchat.com/m_128811/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#128811 Do you consider your submission to someone a gift? http://www.collarchat.com/m_118674/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#118674 Gift or not... http://www.collarchat.com/m_109097/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#109097 The "gift" of submission http://www.collarchat.com/m_26446/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#26446 On the gift of submission http://www.collarchat.com/m_17487/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#17487 my thoughts on the "gift" of submission

gooddogbenji -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 6:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterzone The gift of submission is garbage. Dammit! And I already had it in my gift registry! You know what it will take to edit that thing? Yours, benji

Lashra -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 8:11:56 PM)
I don't think of submission as a gift it is just how a person is, just as I am Dominant. I think the word gift is used to romantize the idea because frankly, alot of women like that kinda stuff. Frankly I don't care for the flowery language, just give me the straight facts. ~Lashra

GddssBella -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 8:36:59 PM)
G'evening all: To the OP; welcome to the boards, and it's about time! Considering you've been a member since 2004 and this is your first post. chuckling Enjoy the bumpy ride. As to the topic, the idea of "gift" negates the aspect of power exchange, so I have to side with you Michael. It's a flowery, romantic phrase some folks like to toss around to make their participation seem more valid or whatever. Piffle. I believe each party gets something worthwhile out of the venture, or else why do it? For a gift to truly be meaningful, the giver can't expect any compensation of any sort. Not even gratitude. I define it most accurately as article 2 of this link. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/gift Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others... [:D] Bella

diamonddreamlove -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 8:44:44 PM)
I give my submission willingly just as He gives his dominance willingly. Would have to be a mutual gift or oh i don't know maybe just consential interaction.

juliaoceania -> RE: The gift of submission. (8/16/2006 8:46:31 PM)
Thanks for posting that link to the definition... it is always good to read the actual definition of words when applying them. For those that think that all relationships and life itself is a gift it does not change an opinion 2 : something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation I do not expect compensation for my submission.

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