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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 7:34:41 AM

mnottertail

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Should vs Could is one, FirmhandKY.

Ron

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 7:51:17 AM

CrappyDom

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All I know is my ex is a 42 year old woman who has been vegan for decades and most people think she is in her late 20s or early thirties.

She of course takes pains to eat the right sort of foods to provide her with omega 3 and adds flavorings like flax seed oil which is rich in them. Mushrooms are an excellent and tasty source of proteins as well.

If anyone is curious about strict vegan food, Millenium is a three star restaurant in San Francisco that prepares some insanely good food that the most knuckle dragging carnivore would find salivating. I highly suggest the oyster mushrooms battered in sesames as an appetizer, divine, truly divine.

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 9:35:07 AM

juliaoceania

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My mom's spouse smoked and ate meat, and for many years drank too much, he looked much younger than his years most of his life... he was a sun worshiper too. One person looking younger than their years does not equate to veganism being the cause. I remember reading Heather Locklear eats cheese burgers at least once a week... she hardly looks like a hag. I am not claiming to look younger than my years, but I do not look older and I have had people comment that they thought I was much younger than I actually am. I think that exercise, yoga being one of the best forms, helps people retain youthfulness much more than excluding meat from their diets. Not to even eat fish for example, or milk products, is not advisable in my mind

I think about the vegans I have known, and many of them looked anemic and atrophied. My former dom was a vegan for about 5 years and went back to eating meat when he began to hear other friends of his having health problems, he fiugured it was a nice experiment, but that he shouldn't experiment with his health.

Just my thoughts and experiences with what I have seen

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 10:26:30 AM

meatcleaver

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Not to brag but most people I meet think I'm between 5-10 years younger than I am. I smoke, drink and eat whole cows. My father is often mistaken for being younger than he is and he smokes drinks and eats whole cows too. My grandfather was the same, he smoked, drank and ate whole cows and looked a lot younger than his age and he lived until he was 99. When he died the doctor said it was that last whole cow that killed him. He should have killed it before he took a bite.

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 10:27:39 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
All I know is my ex is a 42 year old woman who has been vegan for decades and most people think she is in her late 20s or early thirties.

Crappy, I'm betting that has more to do with fortunate good genetics than it does with her being a vegan. I'm 40, and people never believe that I'm older than my early 30s unless they see me out with my children who are 19 and 8. My mom was the same way - when she died at 55, people thought she was in her late 30s despite chronic illness, and before she became seriously ill usually thought we were siblings. My grandmother is 80, and still looks like she's in her mid to late 50s. People still frequently mistake her for my mother rather than my grandmother. Out of the 3 of us, the only one who even beings to come close to the Occassional vegitarian dieting is my grandmother - and she's by no means strict about it with herself.

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 10:59:38 AM

raiken

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There are many reasons that what we do NOT eat, is what may help us become more healthy. Most of the meat is fat and protein that we do not really need. We are made out of proteins, and what we need are the tools (the amino acids and live enzymes), that will aid our body in making it's own proteins, etc..

Vegetarians who eat healthy balanced meals will greatly reduce the intake of unnatural toxins from refined sugars, processed grains, HGH injected dairy and meats, chemicals, additives, and toxic pesticides, etc., especially if eating organic.

Of course there are "junk food" vegetarians, vegans, and even those that eat organic. It is all about our own unique chemical physiology, what is right for one may not be right for another, the body needs certain things to maintain optimal health, and each person is different. The main thing is to eat foods rich in live enzymes and that promote a healthy balance of bacteria in the colon, like a balance of fruits, veggies, nuts, and seeds. The more raw foods we intake, the better.

The proteins and fats contained in alvocados, and nuts, for example, are enough for the body. Most of the time the protein that our bodies need is only about 20 to 30 grams for the normal adult with normal activity levels. Anything over that becomes free radical activity in the system and begins to wreak havoc on the body over time.

Our bodies are like a terrain. If the terrain becomes depleted, so will our general health and leave us prone to dis-ease and other deficiencies that take years to manefest, cancer, being one of them. We really ARE what we eat. Just something to think about... There is plenty of information out there.

One thing that really sticks in my mind is of those who look good on the outside, but have no clue what they look like on the inside. Regeneration is the key to optimal health, and this can only occur by eliminating toxic intake from foods that have no health potential to the body, and replacing them with healthy foods that are alive. Personally i have come to believe that if i want to feel alive and live healthy, i have to eat foods that contain life. i have been a vegetarian for some time now, and i have never felt better and haven't had to see an MD in over 6 years now. However, i am NOT a junk food junkie either! *smile

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 12:17:13 PM

Nikolette

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Reading through this thread... shaking my head. And so now gonna add my petty 2 cents worth....

If eating.. or not eating... is a relationship breaker... then it's time to break the relationship. I have to agree with sunshine.. it can be worked around. And if it can't.. then time to move on. Some people can't stop doing certain things...some can. Apparently you can....apparently he can't.. or doesn't want to. Either way... if he's that special to you... then you'll work this out around him...and he would be willing as your sub to work around you as you stop eating the damn meat. But to MAKE him stop eating what he's eaten all his life..(when he doesn't want to... nor think it's good for him to go your route). is just not only foolish.. it's self center..and you're wrong in doing so.

Put the shoe on the other foot...... what if because you decide no more meat... he decided he can't ... or won't.... submit to you?

I think you sort of missed the point I was making in many of my posts. I explained in many of them that he IS willing to do this. And as this threads timeline passed he was even MORE willing. He was just having some stumbling blocks come up about some aspects of it. While in theory it would be a deal breaker for me, please read the tail end of post 89. In it I address the fact that should things spiral down in that fashion, I think it would be an indication of a lack of respect and communication. But since we had a deeper bond, a deep amount of mutual respect and love, it would never come to that anyway based on the work we already did. We've already worked everything out very nicely. The purpose of this thread was never a "Oh my! My slave is denying an important comand, I can't stand that, what do you other subs/slaves say about it?!" It was a "This is what I am doing, this is some of the dynamic in it... how would other's approach it?" And he thinks its perfectly good for him to become a vegetarian.

I definitely don't believe I am being self centered. I have tried to lead him in a good direction, tried to inspire him, and ultimately he chose nicely to accommodate my needs. My last few posts address most of this, feel free to read them, and I won't bore everyone else with reiterations.

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 12:26:29 PM

Nikolette

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chloelicious

Nikolette,

To answer your question towards subs/ i think that as a submissive, i would at least try the vegeterian regimen to see if I can "tolerate" it as twicehappy suggest it.

Now I got a few questions:

Are You vegeterian or vegetalian? I think i've already had the answer but if you don' t ask , you dont know.
What kind of relationship do you have ; are you Mistress/ Submissive or Mistress/ Slave?

I think that the answer to the last question is "important" to distinguish if You would LIKE your sub to became vegi or You WANT him to be a vegetarian. Cause for me as a sub, you still have the choice as long as you thought about all the implications and you tried to experiment what you must change in your life.

If we talk about slavery (in the totallity of the term) i think all this person have to do is to adapt himself to your standard.
Once again like Twice happy said you must be aware that it should "blow down" your relationship.

I hope i did nt get you wrong in anyway cause i'm not fully aware of the in and outs of vegeterianism

Chloé

Presently I am working toward becoming a vegetarian who consumes cruelty free eggs and dairy. (The dairy industry supports the veal industry)

We are Mistress/Slave.... and You are right about adapting himself to my standards on many levels. He has done that and we are working toward total vegetarianism with success.

It was definitely a "want" query. I would have LIKED him to agree with the reasoning I have for wanting to become a vegetarian but I WANTED him to do it even so.

Thank you for giving me an attentive answer and asking questions! I think its splendid, accommodating, respectful and mature of you to being open to at least trying something. I really was somewhat startled that many Subs said they would outright refuse to even try something. ;)

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 12:37:16 PM

meatcleaver

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How can you possibly have cruelty free eggs? The hen still has to lay them and for what? To make a sentimental human being feel good about herself? Same with milk. The cow is still producing milk, even if it is to ease a human's guilt

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 12:40:23 PM

mnottertail

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There have been studies done that talk of screaming wheat fields when they tortured with a scythe.

Oh, the humanity!!!!

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 12:50:02 PM

Chloelicious

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nikolette,

You are welcome.

As my father told me when i was a little girl: You can not say i do not like/ You detest without trying. And to quote a Philosopher ( i forgot whom) what does nt kill you , make you stronger.

Chloé

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:22:00 PM

Nikolette

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

How can you possibly have cruelty free eggs? The hen still has to lay them and for what? To make a sentimental human being feel good about herself? Same with milk. The cow is still producing milk, even if it is to ease a human's guilt

I grew up on a 250 acre farm in Missouri... we had chickens, sheep and cows. We ate chicken's eggs, which they will lay despite anything, even a rooster fertilizing them. Its not cruel to take unfertilized eggs, we didn't force out of them. It didn't make me feel good or bad or anything. It simply wasn't cruel and was natural, and rather delicious. The hens in SOME corporate farms are forced to live in tiny cages, are starved to induce molting and literally forced to lay more eggs than they would naturally. In most chicken farms the beaks are clipped off as well. Its THOSE aspects I find cruel and those aspects that are absent in registered Cruelty free farms, to varying degrees.

As for milk... how right you are. Cows are producing milk, and in corporate farms they are inseminated annually to keep up milk production and their calves are usually immediately taken from then and bottle fed, they are milked many times a day, and usually end up lame at the end of their dairy term. Its THOSE aspects I find cruel, rather than the milking.

Now... my personal ethics isn't something I wanted to discuss on this thread, it was not pertinant to this thread, you are welcome to your own opinion. I wanted to answer your direct questions. I chose not to respond to your former posts and I won't respond to your next ones here. I was never trying to impose my choices on anyone (aside from my slave I suppose), and only listed information about my choices to people who asked a bit more detail about them. I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to debate them. They are only my own.

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:24:25 PM

mnottertail

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Emile Coue

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:27:26 PM

Chloelicious

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meatclever;

I agree with nikolette, there is nothing wrong eating unfertilized eggs, and concerning the cows, if you dont draw them they die and it will be a real shame.

Chloé

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:27:45 PM

mnottertail

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But these are the same people who with their government do gooder attitude allowed the corporate farms to reap windfalls while the family farmer was thrown out.

These ill-begotten methods are corporate farming tactics.

hand in hand with Nikolette and Chloe-- Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/18/2006 1:28:31 PM >

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:42:38 PM

LaTigresse

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Hellooo, I have seen this thread from afar and avoided it. Today I finally succumbed to my curiousity and now I wish I hadn't. It appears the same argumentative souls cannot help but argue their beliefs and most ignore the initial subject matter to try and prove they are right and everyone that does not agree is wrong. That being said, I am going to give my 2cents worth because I actually have a response that APPLIES to the initial question.
I am not vegetarian. While I have huge respect for many of the practicing vegetarian's reasons, I do not agree with, and find much hypocrasy in their reasoning. Respect and agreeing being two different things.
I LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVVVV meat. Give me a juicy rare steak and I am one happily purring tiger. I also luuuuuuuuuuvvvv grilled veggies.... green beans, zuchini, those cute lil yellow squash, portobella mushrooms, etc etc...
I was in a verrrryyy serious relationship with a lifetime vegetarian. She has never eaten meat in her life as far as she knows. The very sight of me eating it made her nausous. I am dominant, she is very submissive. I love her. I would NEVER EVER ask her to eat meat. Out of love and consideration for her, I did not ever eat much of it in front of her. As in all relationships......compromise.
It was not a life threatening issue. If I felt that she was endangering her health I might demand her find a better alternative that the current to keep her well and happy. She lived from birth, and is 29 now, eating that way, I am quite sure there is no need for me to tell an intelligent grown adult how to take care of themself.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/18/2006 1:44:42 PM >

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:55:18 PM

raiken

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The doors of respect always swing both ways. If you are asked to be or do something that you are not accustomed to being or doing, and in trying to please another you find it toxic to your being, or it goes against your natural grain or integrity, than that is not the relationship that may prove most beneficial to you, or to the dominant in quesiton. Relationships do not survive when respect for each other as a person is not present. No matter what the requests, both hearts have to be willing and on the same page.

The choice to become a meat eater or a vegetarian, fruitarian, lacto ovo, vegan, raw foodist, breatharian, christian, buddhist, taoist, or any other lifestyle belief or philosophy, etc.is very personal, and one that cannot easily be dictated, commanded or forced upon another being, it has to come from within one's self. There are those who may be ready to make a change and are met with one who acts as the catalyst. As in when the student is ready the teacher (or in this case perhaps it is the dominant) will come. Other than that, this belief or desire to make such a change has to come from somewhere deep within to have any depth meaning or benefit. JMO

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:56:44 PM

Nikolette

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LaTigresse,

Interesting perspective! A meat lover (and veggies too) with a vegetarian sub! I was sort of hoping you would reply, I tend to enjoy what you always have to say. :)

I also think you are right about a difference between respecting and agreeing ... and a need for compromise. I feel profoundly lucky after reading many people's firm opinions to keep their diet how they want... that my own slave was as receptive as he was!

I believe if I went back into a situation where I was in control of the treatment of animals, the actual consumption of them I would have no problem with. I enjoy meat.... but its sort of gotten to the point where I see myself contributing negatively to animal rights by aiding in the corporate industry. I would, in an ideal world, like to see small farms prosper much more and corporate farms have a much harder time. In growing up in an agroculturely rich area with plenty of farms, I have seen few if any farmers treat their animals badly, and they tend to treat them respectfully. I have only respect and agreement both with small farming. But this is just one aspect of my motivations behind it.

But... I hugely digress.

< Message edited by Nikolette -- 8/18/2006 1:59:28 PM >

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 1:58:54 PM

raiken

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THINK MONSANTO! What they did to the small farms in their day and are still doing is one of many reasons that some folks still to this day boycott all corn products.

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RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? - 8/18/2006 2:09:58 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikolette

LaTigresse,

Interesting perspective! A meat lover (and veggies too) with a vegetarian sub! I was sort of hoping you would reply, I tend to enjoy what you always have to say. :)

I also think you are right about a difference between respecting and agreeing ... and a need for compromise. I feel profoundly lucky after reading many people's firm opinions to keep their diet how they want... that my own slave was as receptive as he was!

I believe if I went back into a situation where I was in control of the treatment of animals, the actual consumption of them I would have no problem with. I enjoy meat.... but its sort of gotten to the point where I see myself contributing negatively to animal rights by aiding in the corporate industry. I would, in an ideal world, like to see small farms prosper much more and corporate farms have a much harder time. In growing up in an agroculturely rich area with plenty of farms, I have seen few if any farmers treat their animals badly, and they tend to treat them respectfully. I have only respect and agreement both with small farming.

But... I hugely digress.

Hello Nickolette, thank you. Since you brought the subject up and I feel I can word my feelings without being a horses ass I will explain my ONLY issue with the idea of vegan/vegetarianism. Leather and all other products that come from the slaughter of animals we non vegan/vegetarians eat. I once got into a huge HUGE argument at a party when a woman I didn't particularly care for to begin with, confronted me about eating some deer salami. "how can you eat that and profess to love animals?" My reply was quite simple "nice boots, leather?" the silly woman of course said "yes" my response "so, what do you propose they do with the rest of the cow after they skin it for your shoes?"
Now, understand that I live smack in the middle of farm country USA. I often see farm animals treated in a manner I am not thrilled with. Do I sometimes have mixed feelings about this, yes. Enough so that I want to quit eating the steaks, no. There are many things I sometimes have mixed feelings about. Perhaps one day I will be swayed more strongly one way or another, who knows.
Needless to say I know ALOT of farmers, some are smucks and some are....okay...and some are really decent people dedicated to leaving behind a better earth. Yet ALL of them are farming to raise children, support families and try and provide a decent way of life that they grew up with. Most of them are very proud of their part in feeding the world. Nothing happens instantly. I see alot less pollution caused by farming than I did 20 years ago, alot less chemicals. Alot less animal waste being carelessly disposed of. More probiotics and less antibiotics. Is it perfect and wonderful and all happy, noooo. But it really is improving. I see both sides realistically. Human beings trying to live in a manner that they believe in, that is important to them. I think there is a place for all opinions, it creates discussion, education, change.

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