working within multiple dynamics

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

working within multiple dynamics

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> working within multiple dynamics

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 7:00:22 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

Someone asked in another thread.. " What makes a Master want a slave rather than a submissive?" i think i understand that because of my exposure to both elements, but i was wondering...

for Those that have both, how difficult is it to flip mind-sets between the one who has negotiating rights and the one who doesn't?

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 7:30:34 AM

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

Not sure I see a need to flip any type of internal switch when dealing with either.

Once hard limits have been established & you move on to the point of having a viable relationship the sub should trust that these limits will be respected. What is the difference between what a slave would do for you & what a sub would do for you?

edited to add: A little on negotiating rights. You can really negotiate a relationship to death. Negotiation really should be for establishing hard limits, re-evaluation of set limits & anytime you introduce something new to the relationship.

As to daily negotiations such as... do we have a steak dinner followed by a action movie then a little otk before bed vs a seafood dinner followed by a scifi thriller then bondage at bedtime???... not happening in my world.

Picture it this way... Part of being a dominant is having a blueprint of what you hope to achieve in your structure. You reveal this blueprint to others to see if they are interested in coming on board to achieve the goal you show them. The foundation is established by the negotiation. The structure is built by continued communication. The dominant's handling of the relationship is what maintains the solid consistency so that there is strength in what you build together. If you have to negotiate every block you lay you might as well trash the blueprint that offered a peak at what the goal was... this blueprint is what attracted your submissive to you in the first place, once it's gone then all you have is a pile of concrete & no idea what you are building. Furthermore... have you ever tried to build something without directions? It takes you ten times longer, a hundred times more frustration & no matter what you either end up with extra parts or not enough... either way you question yourself, "Did I do this right?"

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 9/6/2006 7:56:58 AM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 8:18:50 AM

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

There's a difference between rights and preferences. When push comes to shove, for me, the only right the slave has is to obey or not. They must be aware that disobedience has it's price...sometimes higher than at other times. However, as someone who wishes to foster a positive, nurturing atmosphere, I wish to continue things that make a person, in general, happy. A certain amount of autonomy...privacy and private time...etc.etc. I can, and will, take these away, if pushed. However, if I'm beginning to feel forced to do this, I will start questioning if the slave continues to be a good match for me or if they are simply not fit for service of any kind. I will most likely end the relationship before I am forced to strip all these things away. I simply have no desire to have someone that I must monitor at all times to ensure they behave. It's exhausting.

In answer to your actual question:
Each person has their own idea of what is and isn't a slave or a submissive. I have found that my definition of submissive is someone who doesn't want to surrender completely. In the context of this question, this means they want a guarentee of certain rights. In slavery, that's not a guarentee. I offer a sensible household, however, and some security that certain things will be granted due to my nature and desires, but no guarentees. Of the things that I want, I grant the slave these things. An example is that I like to be in affectionate relationships; I like to be touched. Therefore, I will grant my slaves a certain leeway to reach out and touch me without asking permission every time.

So, this all implies that I don't want submissives. This is true, according to MY definition of sub and slave. However, definitions vary. Upon talking to my girl, who is my collared slave, we realized our definitions were almost opposite. Once she identified as a slave, according to my definitions, we knew that we had something to work with.

Master Fire

< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 9/6/2006 8:27:55 AM >

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 8:28:31 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

FOr me it's only normally hard- but I've got years of practice, and as a switch myself it helps keep me limber in changing perspectives.

Once you have the ground work done, really it's just a matter of maintenence.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 10:51:50 AM

dmarc

Posts: 38
Joined: 11/9/2004
Status: offline

I have always felt that you gain more depending what your willing to put into the lifestyle, That dynamic of give and get, I find is more in depth with a slave than a sub, though this is personal experience and my preference.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 11:26:07 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

erm... i think i worded my question poorly.   i'll try to clarify it, although i think LA got me and says it's a matter of experience and being limber. Makes sense.

Re-Tread: If You lead both a sub and a slave, do You find it difficult to remember what You're working with?   For instance.. Master might end a "we've got these options" convo with wife/ sub with "Ok, you decide, and let Me know what the plan is" but then with me, that same convo would end with "Ok, I'll decide and get back with you with My decision."

i noticed He never ever forgets which is which, but it occurs to me, that's got to be a feat, switching mindsets like that. Or maybe it isn't, and i just imagine it would be?

(in reply to dmarc)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 11:32:45 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis
i noticed He never ever forgets which is which, but it occurs to me, that's got to be a feat, switching mindsets like that. Or maybe it isn't, and i just imagine it would be?

It's hard when someone feels really strongly and there's a potential conflict.

But really, not much. After all, if there were such a clear and obvious differentiation between sub and slave, we wouldn't have so many debates about it. You all defined how it would be within your relationship and you work with that. As long as everyone remains true to themselves, and respects the others, any wrinkles that might crop up can easily be dealt with.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/6/2006 3:53:38 PM

Posts: 321
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Someone asked in another thread.. " What makes a Master want a slave rather than a submissive?" i think i understand that because of my exposure to both elements, but i was wondering...

for Those that have both, how difficult is it to flip mind-sets between the one who has negotiating rights and the one who doesn't?

No offense, but I don't see it AT ALL that way... submissive, slave,bottom, toy, pet, slut, sam; Master, Dominant, Top, Mistress, Lord, God, Protector, Mentor, etc... Its all semantics. You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-mah-toe. I would consider myself a Dominant... another may choose to call me their Master, but I won't answer to it. It's all a matter of perspective, and self definition. I know many women you would swear are submissive who are adamant about being called a slave, just as I know many a "Master" who can barely call themselves dominant.

Que sera, sera...

CC

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/7/2006 1:30:39 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

The only way I can answer this is on a theoretical perspective but is something I have thought about and am investigatuing more for the time when the Victorian House IB has servants (both sub and slave) Slaves will be either living very close or with us and thus their service is the mainstay of staff. Subs who may only be able to have weekends with us or some simmilar broken peruion are similar to staff brought in from a country estate. In both cases the emphasis is on service but thiose who will be either/and sexually active and./or BDSM active will have their limits (set by me or negotiated) well known for each person. It see it no different than commanding troops with native contingents or folk from other countries.. Comes back to man management.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to CreoleCook)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/10/2006 10:26:04 AM

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline

I have to respectfully disagree that it is just semantics.. I feel there is a major difference between a slave and a submissive.. a submissive gives his/her heart and body to his/her One. and a slave gives heart body and mind. at times this is a very fine line where other times it is a wide divide. ~smiles~ the O/ones involved know the line well.

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/10/2006 10:35:58 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlysweet

I have to respectfully disagree that it is just semantics.. I feel there is a major difference between a slave and a submissive.. a submissive gives his/her heart and body to his/her One. and a slave gives heart body and mind. at times this is a very fine line where other times it is a wide divide. ~smiles~ the O/ones involved know the line well.

As long asyou understand that just about every submissive in the world will disagree with you on that, it's fine.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to subtlysweet)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/10/2006 9:38:27 PM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

yikes. Somehow, slaves that make their definitions a back-slap at the subs just rankle me. It made me NOt want to claim being a slave for a long time. i have known the most dedicated, loving and heartfelt submissives, and a lot of slaves that were nothing of the sort.

it's much like saying "A Master truly cares for His slave, and a Dominant just pretends to"... which might be the case in some instances, but that is NOT what defines the difference between them.

A submissive is not "just slave-Light" , nor is a slave "a deeper more commited sub".

And to use the "true" designator, would a "true slave" sit in judgement on the service of another? i may call myself a slave, but my behavior defines me, not my lapel pin. and to be honest, i'm not always behaving as a slave, like when i get pissed at others for insulting whole groups of dedicated men and women in this lifestyle.

:: disengages rant module :::

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/10/2006 9:59:56 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlysweet

I have to respectfully disagree that it is just semantics.. I feel there is a major difference between a slave and a submissive.. a submissive gives his/her heart and body to his/her One. and a slave gives heart body and mind. at times this is a very fine line where other times it is a wide divide. ~smiles~ the O/ones involved know the line well.

I think it is best to phrase the difference between sub/slave like this.. it is a bit like that old thing about pornography and indecency...It is hard to articulate the difference between art and pornography, but everyone knows the difference when they see it. I find the same is true with subs and slaves.. it is hard to articulate into words the difference, but you know it when you see it. There is a difference, but like explaining the difference between artistic nudes, or playboy, or hustler... it is hard to put the difference into words.

As a submissive we get tired of hearing that we do not love as deeply, submit as deeply, or serve as deeply, and slaves get tired of hearing they are mindless doormats.. neither statement is true.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to subtlysweet)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/10/2006 11:08:24 PM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

As a submissive we get tired of hearing that we do not love as deeply, submit as deeply, or serve as deeply, and slaves get tired of hearing they are mindless doormats.. neither statement is true.

what's funny is most of us operate within both dynamics at various times. In the beginning, a slave must question everything, in order to get to the point where they don't have to question anything. And every submissive i've ever known that reserved the right to negotiate if needed, doesn't always use it just because it's there. Depth or commitment might be more about how consistantly you choose to submit than about how easy it is to do it naturally.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/11/2006 5:29:47 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Leaving slaves out as they are more easily definable, the matter of subs has to be looked at. there are subs who are almost slaves but retain minimum control and there are subs who are at the best part timers who only want to play one or two nights a week and reatain nearly all if not all their personal controls and who negotiate everything on a session by session basis. I look for subs who fall toward the former end of the scale for what I require as part of the staffing of HIB. However for a basic play partner to allow be training and experience in various aspects of BDSM, I can work happily with the letter end of the spectrum..As I said in an earlier post, it is a matter of man management and what you seek for what ever reason... Bloody hell, I would happily consider LA for play sessions and that sex would not be part of the deal would not, for my part, make any difference. LA has both experience and her head screwed on firmly.

Don't worry LA it's not a proposition, the pacific Duck Pond is still in the way..

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/11/2006 7:39:53 AM

Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline

*chuckles at IB*

This has been an interesting thread to read through. Personally, I'm not sure I'll ever understand the concrete difference between slave and sub. I'm not entirely certain that there is one. It seems that in the BDSM world, each individual defines those terms for themselves and then functions accordingly.

I guess that's okay, although sometimes it does make for miscommunications and confusion. I wonder at times if it might not be better to talk about individual thoughts and preferences rather than trying to identify them in a simple manner with a label. The labels don't seem to work to terribly well, I'm afraid.

It gives one pause and a moment to think... I don't even know what I am at my core, slave or sub. I may never find that out. I do know that I'm not dominant, and I guess that's good enough for the moment.

zuma

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/11/2006 7:43:53 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

As a submissive we get tired of hearing that we do not love as deeply, submit as deeply, or serve as deeply, and slaves get tired of hearing they are mindless doormats.. neither statement is true.

what's funny is most of us operate within both dynamics at various times. In the beginning, a slave must question everything, in order to get to the point where they don't have to question anything. And every submissive i've ever known that reserved the right to negotiate if needed, doesn't always use it just because it's there. Depth or commitment might be more about how consistantly you choose to submit than about how easy it is to do it naturally.

Under that definition I am a slave...Ha Ha...and I identify as a submissive. I do so basically because the one thing that I have noted is that slaves claim they cannot leave no matter what...the will to leave is gone.. no matter how they are treated or what happens to them. Not that they will ever be treated poorly and not that they did not choose their master wisely. I could never say that I give up that little corner of my psyche that leaves if I felt abused and if someone was making decisions that negatively impacted me I would leave... at this point anyways.. in 5 years I may have a different mindset.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/11/2006 10:36:05 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Greetings and falicitations zuma,

If it makes things easier, my definition of a slave is that used by the Giorean Community which untill recently I was a member. The only difference is that I refuse to see a slave as an animal. however if I collar a girl in a personal collar as a slave I will own her mind, body, heart and soul which means I'm unlikely to be doing any personal collerings for a few years or even uin this lifetime. house collars are what we use anyway these days.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/11/2006 12:34:58 PM

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Someone asked in another thread.. " What makes a Master want a slave rather than a submissive?" i think i understand that because of my exposure to both elements, but i was wondering...

for Those that have both, how difficult is it to flip mind-sets between the one who has negotiating rights and the one who doesn't?

So often I have seen submissive as the beginning of slave, though in my dealings it is not always thus. When I interact with a prospective servant, I measure as best I may what level of desire and understanding she possesses. If I feel she is fully aware of what she is undertaking, I will allow her to enter slavery—otherwise, she remains a servant or pet. These stations do not denote any form of hierarchy or fixed nature; they are conceptualized to offer a more specific place for a structure of desire and insight. One who I am schooling may become a slave if it is found this is a true desire in her heart, but only after I deem it as sound.

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: working within multiple dynamics - 9/13/2006 12:33:14 PM

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Someone asked in another thread.. " What makes a Master want a slave rather than a submissive?" i think i understand that because of my exposure to both elements, but i was wondering...

for Those that have both, how difficult is it to flip mind-sets between the one who has negotiating rights and the one who doesn't?

Personal desires and fantasy, makes, drives or compels one to search for a certain person. In some cases it is akin to holding open auditions! *grins It is knowing himself and his desires so clearly and succinctly that ultimately causes a man to feel he is a Master wanting full control over a slave, or a Dominant wanting only partial control over a submissive. If he knows exactly who he is, he will, by universal law of attraction, put out the energy to attract back exactly what he desires. Just my thoughts...not subject for debate...chuckles

i have done both sides, and for myself, what you call flipping mindsets, is effortless. This is because each person i am with naturally brings out other parts of me when we are together. We have taken time to find each other's step and rhythym, and so we automatically step together. *smile

(in reply to Mavis)

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> working within multiple dynamics

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.156