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second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 4:17:40 AM   
yaqeta


Posts: 59
Status: offline 		I'm looking for some relationship advice here... its one of the classic dilemmas of newish relationships, but I can't figure out how to handle it in the context of M/s.

My Master still spends time with his ex.  That in itself is no problem at all.  I have met her, played with the two of them together, and I actually like her.  The problem is that the connection the two of them share sometimes impacts his behaviour in ways that make me feel.... well, hurt, and neglected.  For example, if he and I are at the beginning of an evening together and she lets it be known that she is annoyed at him about something, our time together is put on hold.  In general, thats something I can accept - if her friendship is important to him, then so be it.  I certainly don't feel that I have any right to question that.  But recently we were in a group play situation, and things for me became a bit precarious.  There were clear signs that something someone was doing to me was not going well.  Master momentarily became aware of these signs, and said nothing.  He wasn't monitoring, and didn't know, what was being done to me.  He was concentrating on his ex.  Eventually, I was pushed too far, and the scene didn't end nicely.  He was so focussed on her, that he neglected my safety.

Now for the most part I find him to be an excellent Master.  I have never before been so delighted to please, so inspired to serve, so satisfied and challenged and trusting and felt as safe and looked after as I am with him.  And I know that he is only human and we all have moments of weakness.  It was ok in the end, he made sure I was alright, and I see the whole thing as just an unfortunate incident.

But after this, it suddenly hurts a whole lot more.  I know that his relationship with her and his relationship with me are two different things, and one does not compete with the other.  She is a "playmate", I am his slave.  Him caring about her, and enjoying being with her, doesn't mean he doesn't want me.  If this were a vanilla relationship, I'd want to say "stop putting her needs ahead of mine".  But its not, and he can put my needs wherever the hell he wants to put them.  I feel second best, and maybe I am - who am I to say I shouldn't be?

He's not necessarily doing anything wrong.  And I certainly don't want to tell him what to do.  But this is making me feel, for the time being at least, less happy in this relationship with him.  And I feel that I need to make him aware of that - not to tell him what he should or shouldn't do, but because its important, imo, for both partners to take responsibility for "maintenance".  If things were to eventually get worse to the point where I wanted to leave, it would be irresponsible of me not to have said anything earlier.

My question, finally, is what the hell do I say and how do I say it?  Or should I just deal with it and keep quiet unless it gets worse?  Maybe he is already aware of it and I should just trust him?  If your slave were feeling this way, what would you want him/her to do or say about it?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 4:43:09 AM   
OhReallyNow


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		this slave would ask Master for permission to speak freely about something that was of utmost importance; she would then proceed to tell him exactly what you have said here.
 
this slave can not empasize the importance of communication about something like this; you Master NEEDS to know what your feelings are.

_____________________________

~ When anger rises, think of the consequences
CONFUCIUS ~

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 4:48:18 AM   
jeffman1234


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/11/2004
Status: offline 		On one hand you say his relationship with her is ok, he has a right to friendship, on the other hand you say it is a problem. It obviously is a problem for you or you wouldn't be posting here. I think you should, in a nice way, tell him how you feel. 

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 4:55:17 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yaqeta

I feel second best, and maybe I am - who am I to say I shouldn't be?



In a word, you.

I might suggest that without saying how much time between 'end of relationship to ex' and 'you becoming his slave' is too short a time period.  I might suggest that he harbors too many feelings for her still (and some of that might be on who did the splitting from whom).

I also might suggest not double-dating with his ex and whomever was the one playing with you (who might have felt equally left out and was taking his displeasure out on you).

In a healthy relationship should you be second best to anyone?

Of course, I might be well off track here, in your mind, because you feel you're 'just the slave'.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 4:56:21 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Show him your post.

We do things that are not necessarily safe, it needs to be monitored.  It does not matter how many people he may have been or is playing with at one time, he needs to be aware of what is going on.  If he is not able to focus on more than one person at a time and ensure safety to the best of his ability, perhaps he need to be playing with just one person at a time.
I am fully aware that not everything we do is 100% safe, there are things that can pop up...........which is exactly my point.  You need to make him aware, sit down and speak with him about this, speak with him about how you are feeling and why.

Happy Tuesday...

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 5:29:14 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		If you don't wish to be tread upon, then don't lay down in the path. Fair warning though, you're his slave, he is your Master. If you try to change the dynamic, you could end up with no dynamic at all.
quote:

If your slave were feeling this way, what would you want him/her to do or say about it?
If it were my slave, I would want her to respectfully tell me what she is feeling. I would decide from there to change something if I felt it warrented. She will either accept my decision or find her self on the curb. YMMV

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 9/19/2006 5:32:59 AM >

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 7:52:04 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		In my opinion, you tried to manipulate him, or test him unfairly, by martyring yourself in the scene. If the scene was going badly, you should have stopped it. you, as the slave, had the responsibility to keep yourself fit to serve.

Have you talked to him about how the behavior hurts you? Don't say, "You are hurting me when you do X." Say, "I feel hurt when you do X." That way, it doesn't come off as accusatory. If the behavior continues and you continue to be hurt, perhaps your not a match.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 11:57:34 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I assume that you knew how things were going to be before you became his slave? I hope so. I would talk with him about how  you're feeling, but it is up to him whether anything is done about it.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 12:36:04 PM   
PrimitiveLogic


Posts: 145
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Md.
Status: offline 		This is by no means a statistical nor scientific statement; just one based on how I  'hear' what people have said  in their posts over the last 10 years.  I find it interesting that when women cede flesh and performance to another; they retain a larger sense of self  and of "fairness" expectation than sub men do. Sub men tend to appear to have had the "worthless piece of shit gene" hooked, and therefore never seem dare question any motive...they are grateful for the sliver of attention given regardless of its intent...or lack thereof.
In reference to yaqeta, I often  see women dancing around: how to ask/how to tell/is this right/and on and on.... Your dilemma sounds like it will only widen..kinda of like a split poly but not family dynamic. He does/or doesn't as he sees fit; you accept/deal. Does a sub/slave have the right(or capacity) to question clarification of her  position/place/importance?  Would a D/S mediation service be an answer to those who need clarification issues explored but unable to do so themselves?  Message boards are a good resource; but one can fish for the right answer(the one they want to hear) too easily, as opposed to truly working on a solution to its satisfaction with a focused guide. There is no easy answer to turmoil issues like yours. Having been a therapist for 25 years, I find it emotionally hard to listen to the pain of those seeking a depth of fulfillment; especially when their partner is not in a congruent journey.  This is why the theme of so many response posts is for prospective subs to talk about expectations deeply before you enter into a relationship. Get references if at all possible. Talk about how to establish  problem solving  between you...if not then all one can do is remove themselves from the relationship when it becomes unalterable or futile (on either side of the equation.)  I know I got off topic, but conflict resolution gets exquisitely murky here.  As long as one knows what is expected of them, it is far easier to deliver it.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 1:42:45 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yaqeta

something, our time together is put on hold.  In general, thats something I can accept - if her friendship is important to him, then so be it.  I certainly don't feel that I have any right to question that.  But recently we were in a group play situation, and things for me became a bit precarious.  There were clear signs that something someone was doing to me was not going well.  Master momentarily became aware of these signs, and said nothing.  He wasn't monitoring, and didn't know, what was being done to me.  He was concentrating on his ex.  Eventually, I was pushed too far, and the scene didn't end nicely.  He was so focussed on her, that he neglected my safety.

If your slave were feeling this way, what would you want him/her to do or say about it?


He cuts YOUR together time because of HER, well that tells me she has alot of control over him and you. My sub is one of the most important people in my life and my ex surely is not, now that is MY situation. However even if that was not the situation my sub would not come second to my ex otherwise my ex WOULD NOT be my ex. Make sense?

He ignored your safety and put your life and limb at risk due to the power this woman have over him. What does that say to me? He is neglecting you and your safety a Dominant does NOT do this.

If it were my sub or a sub/slave friend of mine and they asked me for advice on what to do? I would talk to him and tell him exactly how you feel, how you see it and ask what can be done to resolve this problem. Perhaps its time to separate for awhile to give him some space to figure out what he truly wants. If it cannot be resolved it is time to move on to someone who doesn't have emotional baggage to cloud their thinking.

These are dangerous games that we play and you could get seriously hurt, your safety is more important than his unresolved feelings for his ex. Think about it.

~Lashra



_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 3:43:57 PM   
amuzingtoyou


Posts: 144
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		Lashra,
I say ditto. It sounds to me like she (the ex) is manipulating him and he is allowing it to happen. Obviously he still has feelings for her if he takes time away from his current submissive everytime she is upset with him about something. There is nothing that says as a submissive you "have" to accept something that makes you feel bad. You always have choices. You can discuss your feelings with him in a calm rational manner, you can scream, shout and throw a hissy fit, or you can leave the relationship. I think too many submissives swallow their feelings in the name of "service".  Just remember you always have choices. If this ex makes you feel unwanted and neglected it is your responsibilty to inform your Master how you are feeling. He can't read your mind. Good luck it sounds like a tricky situation.

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 7:26:00 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		He's just not that into you.

Personally he would now be my ex if he endangered me because he was too busy mooning over her. How can you trust him now? His word doesn't mean anything, because he promises you time and attention and then breaks it without caring about you. Your health and well being mean nothing to him, and I doubt he allowed her to be so mistreated when they were still together.

If you feel a need to be martyred or have enormous self worth problems I'd say stay there and take more. But me? I don't have sex or play with people who I can't trust.

(in reply to amuzingtoyou)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 8:07:48 PM   
SweetEscravo


Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		It really sounds like he still has feelings for her that outweigh the feelings for you.  I'd talk to him about it and let him know that this was a serious concern that needed to be dealt with.  Yes, there are those people who'll say you're a slave or sub, so do what you're told yadda yadda yadda, but I honestly think that you owe it to yourself as a human being to be straightforward with him.  You don't need to be a doormat who just blindly obeys when something doesn't feel right. 

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 8:16:48 PM   
yaqeta


Posts: 59
Status: offline 		mstrjx: "I also might suggest not double-dating with his ex and whomever was the one playing with you"
We weren't double-dating.  There were 6 of us and it was just play.

"In a healthy relationship should you be second best to anyone?"
In a healthy Master/slave relationship, yes.  And in a group situation I am second to everyone.  That is my position as he and I have agreed.  Not because its convenient for him to put me there, but because that's where I want to be.  Part of the dilemma is that this conflicts with what I am feeling, and with my need for safety.

MasterFireMaam: I understand your point, but it is not part of the scene dynamics as we play for me to stop a scene, ever.  This works as long as he is in control and paying attention.  This is the only time that has ever failed, and I guess part of what bothers me is the fact that the only time it failed was a result of her involvement, and what that represents to me.

Celeste43: Whoa, hold on there.  He's a human being and, in one heated moment, he made a mistake.  That doesn't mean "his word doesn't mean anything".  It certainly doesn't mean my wellbeing means "nothing" to him.  He treats me well, looks after me wonderfully, and has never betrayed my trust at any other time.  So, he slipped.  Big deal.  If I expected my Master to be superhuman and infallible I'd be living in a fantasy land.  Whats important is not that he is perfect, but that he recognises that he slipped up and makes sure to be more attentive and not make the same mistake again.  I trust him to do that.  And if it turns out he doesn't, then I'd consider it a real problem.

OK, so the general consensus I'm getting here is that I need to tell him something.  Yes, I agree with some of you who have said that it seems he still has feelings for her, and that she has some degree of control over him.  This might sound wierd, but that in itself I don't mind.  We all have baggage - hell, I know I sure do!  And this is not a romantic relationship - we have developed a strong bond, but first and foremost the basis of the relationship is to meet his need to dominate and my need to serve.  What I don't want is for the control she has to mess with that.  Before, it messed with it only in tiny, tolerable ways.  This time it messed with it in an important way.  I may be lucky and it may never happen again.  But it probably will.  So I need to find a way to discuss it with him.

I feel self-conscious asking this, thanks to PrimitiveLogic's comment about women havnig this issue, but wtf do I say?  Its hard to be respectful, and non-critical, and avoid him misunderstanding and thinking I'm trying to tell him what to do (or even just trying to manipulate his actions, which would be topping from the bottom).  How do I make it clear that I'm not doing any of that, but still be honest about how I feel?

Communication about the inevitable negatives is one thing I really struggle with in these kinds of relationships.  And I don't feel its something he can teach me, I just have to figure it out for myself...

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: second to the ex... - 9/19/2006 8:29:59 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Well now that you've clarified that this is NOT a romantic relationship in anyway, then you are a service submissive to be used when and if he sees fit. He determines how much time you will and will not get, and the quality of it. With that in mind I would just talk to him from a safety point of view. Tell him respectfully that when you are being used in a scene that you would like ask him to focus as you are concerned about getting damaged.
No Dominant wants their toys to be broken they just aren't any fun that way.

Good Luck,
~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: second to the ex... - 9/20/2006 3:52:59 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings dear

he is not acting right your his slave you come first he should always make sure your not hurt in anyway. you need to sit down and speak with him, do you have an open talk ? that is can you go to him and say what your feeling. this woman is not being right i am guessing but she was hurting you i see? you must talk and tell him of what you feel. then a great master would not out you in a dangerous postion as you were in. the masters here can better tell you what to do. i wish you well and take care

mons

(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: second to the ex... - 9/20/2006 11:30:31 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yaqeta

I feel second best, and maybe I am - who am I to say I shouldn't be?

Here is the crux of the situation...the way you received it, have dealt with it and processed it. Of course it is natural to take it in this way for some it is highly personal and with good reason - being your safety issues, which are infact the deepest part of trust in a dominant in that type of play situation you described. His being distracted in the moment would leave me questioning the trust in safety.  Your feelings are valid.
 
However, that second best feeling, may be coming from a place within yourself that may still be in need of healing or exploring as to what causes you to *feel* second best.  This is a precursor to competition and insecurities that if left undealt with, tend to lead to jealousy even at the most subtle levels, which some folks are in deep denial over, it is a tough area to face and understand within ourselves as i see it.
 
Be careful not to confuse or associate issues of trust and safety with issues of feeling second best. They may or may not be related.

He's not necessarily doing anything wrong.  And I certainly don't want to tell him what to do.  But this is making me feel, for the time being at least, less happy in this relationship with him.  And I feel that I need to make him aware of that - not to tell him what he should or shouldn't do, but because its important, imo, for both partners to take responsibility for "maintenance".  If things were to eventually get worse to the point where I wanted to leave, it would be irresponsible of me not to have said anything earlier.

It is good to be honest about your feelings and i believe that by the way you described him, he will receive your feelings in the right context. He may even have been so distracted that he may appreciate your calling him on this in a respectful approach. Like you stated, he is not infalable.  Perhaps you both will learn something after a respectfully submitted request to approach and speak freely about it.  Honesty in this area leaves no room for surprises, resentment, or contention to grow.

My question, finally, is what the hell do I say and how do I say it? 

Be yourself.  i would express yourself in much the same way you have here, and always have with him about everything else.  Keeping in mind, whom you are speaking to, and your position and place as his.  Most dominants will consider hearing the feelings of their sub.  You already know that the descisions or choices are ultimately his to make. 
 
Or should I just deal with it and keep quiet unless it gets worse? 

The only time i would recommend doing this, is if you are trying to work out some things or areas within yourself, and during this phase it is sometimes best not to share until you are sure of why you feel the way you do on all levels possible.  Otherwise my answer is a resounding NO, do not withhold how you feel until it gets worse.
 
Maybe he is already aware of it and I should just trust him? 

It is quite possible, that he has thought about this, and he has realized how his actions have affected you and is quietly keeping that in the back of his mind to watch for in the future.  However, no one is a mind reader.  If you need to know for sure, then it would be best to ask, or else be patient and trust until a situation comes along to give you pause once more in this area, then i would definitely approach.  Only you know how his mind works, if he is usually some steps ahead of you, or if he is so distracted lately that you feel insecure in his trust or in his ability to care for you safely, etc.
 
However, i would still try to figure out the trigger from this situation that causes you to *feel* second best. Or causes you to associate your safety with this feeling.

If your slave were feeling this way, what would you want him/her to do or say about it?

Most of the dominants i know would tell me to express myself and my thoughts. You may find if you do, he may offer an explanation or reasoning to a method, or you may find that your concerns are unfounded.  Hopefully this will be the case.  Trust is important as far as the safety issue that concerns you. 
 
*Feeling* second best (especially if he tells you otherwise is a matter of trust in him) and is an area of you working on you.  i would caution you in how you approach him if at all, on the *feeling* issue, for this may cause him dissappointment in that he may have believed you trusted him more in this area.  Good Luck in whatever you decide.


(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: second to the ex... - 9/20/2006 3:29:52 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Your post reads as though he repeatedly plans evenings with you and then cancels when the ex calls. Now if this happened once, I apologize but if it does happen more than once I stand by what I said. He gave you his word that he would spend that evening with you and then he breaks his promise. I judge by actions, not words, so if I was repeatedly shown that I wasn't worth keeping a promise to, then I would lose trust. You earn trust by keeping your word and by not giving it unless you know you will keep it. You don't earn trust by promising things that you know damn well you won't do when someone better crooks a finger.

As far as not paying attention to you when you got into difficulties, ignoring clear signs of your trouble, he lost a lot of trustworthiness there. Your safety and physical and mental health should have come before anything. Me, I'm valuable to him and he would never have done to me what your dom did. For us, that's unthinkable.

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: second to the ex... - 9/20/2006 3:35:55 PM   
givemyall


Posts: 620
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry to sound blunt but I'd wake up and smell the coffee.

Find someone that deserves you and doesn't need the comfort of a failed relationship to make him feel good.

The rest of your life is in front of you.... go for it!


(in reply to yaqeta)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: second to the ex... - 9/20/2006 6:52:49 PM   
yaqeta


Posts: 59
Status: offline
quote:

Be careful not to confuse or associate issues of trust and safety with issues of feeling second best. They may or may not be related.

Good point raiken.  Perhaps this is the source of my confusion - there are two separate issues here, and I am mixing them together.  It is the trust and safety issue that brings up the "second best" issue for me.  And I know deep down that this "second best" feeling is not based on any real problem, its just in my mind.  So I'm trying to justify feeling that way by falling back on the trust and safety issue, which is valid.  I need to address that with him, and address the "second best" thing with myself.  Thank you.

quote:

Your post reads as though he repeatedly plans evenings with you and then cancels when the ex calls

Sorry, celeste, I probably wasn't clear enough.  He doesn't cancel, he still spends his time with me and keeps his promise.  I just have to wait while he clears things up with her.  So there is a delay, and one that I don't like, because I don't see their conflict as urgently important.  But I guess he does, and I know that this is his prerogative.

quote:

  Me, I'm valuable to him and he would never have done to me what your dom did. For us, that's unthinkable.

Of course its unthinkable.  Its also unthinkable that I would ever run over a kid while driving my car.  But it is still conceivable that one day, I might be tired, my mind wandering, and I am distracted at exactly the wrong moment, through no fault of my own, and it happens anyway.  Doesn't make me a bad person or mean that I don't care - it just means that I'm human and I made a very unfortunate mistake.  At that point, all I can do is my best to take care of the casualties and try my best to see that it never happens again.  We can be as careful and vigilant as we like, but at the end of the day, we are all capable of error.  I hope you don't genuinely see your Dom as this perfect - if so, you have been very very lucky so far, and may one day be in for a huge disappointment.
Please don't judge my Master based on the only thing you know about him.  As I said, this is the *only* time he has ever let anything like this happen.  I trust him, and a part of that trust is recognising his humanness, and trusting that when he makes a mistake, he takes steps to prevent it occurring again in the future.

quote:

  Find someone that deserves you and doesn't need the comfort of a failed relationship to make him feel good.

*sigh*  I'll say it again: this is not a romantic relationship.  We are in this solely to meet our Dom/sub needs, not our emotional ones.  If he wants to get those met thru an old relationship, he can.  And as far as the roles in our relationship are concerned, I have never met anyone as "deserving" of my submission as he is.  There is not a huge bdsm community where I live, and Dominants of his calibre are impossible to come by.  It would be stupid of me to throw this away so quickly the second something doesn't go as planned.  I will do everything I can to make it work before I throw in the towel.

(in reply to givemyall)
Profile   Post #: 20
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